GUILTY Australia - Lynette Dawson, 34, Sydney, Jan 1982 *Arrest* #4

[SLouTh]

Yeah, he would have had Buckley's of getting bail.

Struggling to understand why the sentence won't be handed down until November 11th though?

Perhaps it's time to give the defence time to appeal the verdict?

Perhaps to give the defence time to prepare their application for reasons that may, or may not, affect the sentence duration??? A plea, if you like, for the length of sentence???? (Although, imo they are not even confident at this stage that anything will have any significant bearing on that ) with Walsh confirming that Dawson will die in jail ….

That is my understanding of how the media have reported it ….and how other cases have run..

Media also suggests it will also be some time after that date, as to when Judge Harrison actually hands down his sentence …..

All about due process of the legal system …. Even though it would save a lot of time and expense if the Justice had just done sentencing with the verdict… but rules are rules ….

 

[SLouTh]

And trials before a lone judge are less likely to end in a conviction

This statistic was constantly going through my mind when Justice Harrison was reading his judgement …. Waiting and wondering how it would play out … and finally justice was served ….

 

[musicaljoke]

I am now wondering back to what Paul Dawson said immediately after the verdict was handed down :

"I told that woman!"

You told that woman what, Paul?

Did you tell that woman - Pauline David - pretrial, that Chris looked like going down for this and he'd be better off plea bargaining?

I wonder...

My understanding of this comment was that Paul told "the woman", that he himself should have been called to the stand for he could have redeemed the day.

It's inferred in the D.M., so perhaps not more than an assumption.

Wild moment Chris Dawson's twin brother scuffles with reporters

Chris Dawson's twin brother and family members have scuffled with reporters in wild scenes outside the NSW Supreme Court after the 74-year-old was found guilty of murder.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drsleuth]

240.

• 
  It is important in this context to observe that no general, gender-based assumptions should be made about Lynette Dawson. Simply because Lynette Dawson was a mother does not thereby produce some unambiguously logical conclusion that weighs in favour of the argument that she did not leave voluntarily. Women and mothers are already burdened with more than enough vicarious emotional baggage without further adding to the weight of unfair expectations that are imposed upon them. Men seem not to be regularly stereotyped for making arguably irrational or selfish decisions, whereas women are somehow expected to abide by a higher standard. In forming any opinion or making any finding based upon the fact that Lynette Dawson was a mother, it is advisable to bear in mind that she is entitled to be assessed as Lynette Dawson and not as a member of a class with immutable characteristics. If the contention that Lynette Dawson did not abandon her home is to be inferentially supported by reference to her motherhood or her relationship to her children, as the Crown contends, it must be based upon what is known about Lynette Dawson in particular and not upon what is thought to be known about women or mothers in general.
  

High 5 to the judge

R v Dawson - NSW Caselaw

www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au

 

[musicaljoke]

No. That is not what I am saying, nor is it what the judge said. What the judge said was , that he would not be reading out the full judgement, that there was more in his judgement that would be in the CaseLaw record on line, and this would be published on NOV 11th concurrent with sentencing. This was agreed to by the prosecutor, and the defence.

It is not usual, but it does happen sometimes. It does not mean any changes to that which the judge has already tabled as 'The Judgement'. just that he didn't read it all out, and that would be corrected NOV11th.


Where did I hear that? since you ask so politely, I am happy to say, that's what was said, and I think I heard it correctly, but I am always up for correction, as I pointed out in my original post referring to this, that it was between the judge, the prosecutor, and the defence, both of whom agreed to this proposal.

I believe that in the few minutes after the guilty finding, Justice Harrison explained that he found a few typos in his report and he would correct them and have the report ready for publication following the bail hearing, not the sentencing hearing.

Justice Harrison must have stayed up nights for the past six weeks to get this colossal work ready in such short order. Is it any wonder that he was so exhausted after reading what was just the 4.5 hr summary.

 

[musicaljoke]

240.

• 
  It is important in this context to observe that no general, gender-based assumptions should be made about Lynette Dawson. Simply because Lynette Dawson was a mother does not thereby produce some unambiguously logical conclusion that weighs in favour of the argument that she did not leave voluntarily. Women and mothers are already burdened with more than enough vicarious emotional baggage without further adding to the weight of unfair expectations that are imposed upon them. Men seem not to be regularly stereotyped for making arguably irrational or selfish decisions, whereas women are somehow expected to abide by a higher standard. In forming any opinion or making any finding based upon the fact that Lynette Dawson was a mother, it is advisable to bear in mind that she is entitled to be assessed as Lynette Dawson and not as a member of a class with immutable characteristics. If the contention that Lynette Dawson did not abandon her home is to be inferentially supported by reference to her motherhood or her relationship to her children, as the Crown contends, it must be based upon what is known about Lynette Dawson in particular and not upon what is thought to be known about women or mothers in general.
  

High 5 to the judge

R v Dawson - NSW Caselaw

www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au

Indeed. But he also dismissed all reports of spousal abuse and did not find evidence that CD had a tendency to be violent toward his wife. I believe that if an appeal is granted, the crown has a place here, to present better support for the evidence of spousal abuse while Lyn was alive.

 

[JLZ]

Rereading The Queen v Baden-Clay [2016] HCA 35 The Queen v Baden-Clay [2016] HCA 35 (31 August 2016), I find it different to my recollection. This sort of thing:

74. In R v White, Major J went on to say that there may be cases where post-offence conduct, such as the accused's flight or concealment, is so out of proportion to the level of culpability involved in a lesser offence that it might be found by the jury to be more consistent with the more serious offence charged[50]. There may be cases where an accused goes to such lengths to conceal the death or to distance himself or herself from it as to provide a basis on which the jury might conclude that the accused had committed an extremely serious crime and so warrant a conclusion beyond reasonable doubt as to the responsibility of the accused for the death and the concurrent existence in the accused of the intent necessary for murder[51]. There is no hard and fast rule that evidence of post-offence concealment and lies is always intractably neutral as between murder and manslaughter. As Major J said[52]: "The result will always turn on the nature of the evidence in question and its relevance to the real issue in dispute."

And several more paragraphs expanding on the theme.

Harrison's judgement might have been better organized for clarity, but I think the material's there to ground his conclusion of intention of kill.

 

[Podcast Tragic]

Chris Dawsons legal team has asked for him to be isolated following death threats from other inmates.

 

[Kemug]

"My husband just made me a lovely drink" - sounds like a good title for the book.

 

[Kemug]

Still refusing to take the consequences of his actions.. no remorse.. still believing he is the victim.. sickening really

Oh dear, poor Chris - aren't the looks and charm working any more?

 

[Trooper]

This statistic was constantly going through my mind when Justice Harrison was reading his judgement …. Waiting and wondering how it would play out … and finally justice was served ….

That statistic may apply in Britain, . ( but by a very small margin, and on the understanding that they have Law Lords, and a more intricately involved High Court , to which AU used to be able to plea before, not now, and that's a good thing ) But in courts in AU, a judge only trial is confined to 2 states. NSW and ACT.. it is not uniform thing, and it is subject to very nosy oversight.

Dawson chose a judge only trial because his story was so fluffy and so mercurial, a jury would have slayed him. He hoped, with the tiniest of chances, that a judge would understand these things, man to man.

Should Walsh appeal for Dawson ( him saying he isn't going to is not the same as him saying he wont be going to at any time in the future ,) I expect the grounds will be pinned on the slight chance of the judge making an error.

The judges conclusions will be placed before brother judges, of the same rank and standing ( this is why you save up for a lifetime in case you need to appeal a decision )for acute inspection and criticism, and even then, it may, should dollars fall from the sky, go on to the AU High court.

It is in the interest of Walsh, and ms David to broadcast the idea that poor Chris has been done over like dogs dinner, that the trial was unfair, that he never got to speak his truth, that no one understands him. This is PR work, not legal work. Every barrister is paid to burble this stuff for as long as is possible.

 

[Kemug]

All good, The Courier Mail 2 days ago said it was still going ahead in May 2023…
However I guess it may depend on an appeal?? If an appeal is lodged, the Carnal Knowledge Trial may be delayed further???

So far, that is all I have been able to find… but will keep looking …

Oh well, at least it'll be an outing for the poor old chap.

 

[drsleuth]

Oh dear, poor Chris - aren't the looks and charm working any more?

His looks & charm could be seen as an asset in his new home

 

[Trooper]

Oh dear, poor Chris - aren't the looks and charm working any more?

In a few months , he is going to look like Jeff Kennett.....,

jeff kennett photo - Bing

Find high-quality images, photos, and animated GIFS with Bing Images

www.bing.com

 

[drsleuth]

That statistic may apply in Britain, . ( but by a very small margin, and on the understanding that they have Law Lords, and a more intricately involved High Court , to which AU used to be able to plea before, not now, and that's a good thing ) But in courts in AU, a judge only trial is confined to 2 states. NSW and ACT.. it is not uniform thing, and it is subject to very nosy oversight.

Dawson chose a judge only trial because his story was so fluffy and so mercurial, a jury would have slayed him. He hoped, with the tiniest of chances, that a judge would understand these things, man to man.

Should Walsh appeal for Dawson ( him saying he isn't going to is not the same as him saying he wont be going to at any time in the future ,) I expect the grounds will be pinned on the slight chance of the judge making an error.

The judges conclusions will be placed before brother judges, of the same rank and standing ( this is why you save up for a lifetime in case you need to appeal a decision )for acute inspection and criticism, and even then, it may, should dollars fall from the sky, go on to the AU High court.

It is in the interest of Walsh, and ms David to broadcast the idea that poor Chris has been done over like dogs dinner, that the trial was unfair, that he never got to speak his truth, that no one understands him. This is PR work, not legal work. Every barrister is paid to burble this stuff for as long as is possible.

How many $'s do think he has lost in all these legal proceedings Troop?? He's taken stuff to the high court too I think.....

 

[Trooper]

How many $'s do think he has lost in all these legal proceedings Troop?? He's taken stuff to the high court too I think.....

I would not even attempt to put a number on it. He's had two coronial inquests, as well...sure Bro Pete did a lot pro bono as a family responsibility, but he still would have to fork out for transcripts.. accomodation, etc, considering the cases have all been held in Sydney, he lives in QLD, Yeppoon. Lots of paralegal stuff to be paid for, and this is just the nuts and bolts, it isnt the timber and the steel....

If I was loopy enough to guess , I'd say around 2.5 to 3 million $ by now, and a lot of that borrowed, not taking into account interest charged. That would not include yesterdays bill. Two Barristers. Court fees. Doctors bills. Accommodation for the family. food. transport. Air fares. you get my drift.

Does he have a millionaire backer? I genuinely do not think so.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

So far I've read up to paragraph or part, whatever it's called, 398 of the verdict, which included the first two hours of the livestream that I was able to see.

I'll have to read the rest another time, but made a note of where I was up to.

It was too annoying to listen to it being read.

 

[KeenSleuth17]

Indeed. But he also dismissed all reports of spousal abuse and did not find evidence that CD had a tendency to be violent toward his wife. I believe that if an appeal is granted, the crown has a place here, to present better support for the evidence of spousal abuse while Lyn was alive.

I agree @musicaljoke with your comments regarding the Judge’s findings regarding spousal abuse and the Crown’s approach to it. I didn’t think a domestic violence lens was applied to the evidence whereas there are some clear red flags in CD’s behaviour before he married Lyn, after he married her, before he killed her and even more recently. What is known now about domestic violence, patterns and flags, is a great deal more than what was known 40 years ago, and we have labels and terms that we apply to the behaviour and we are more comfortable with defining lethality factors etc which were present in the scenario. If only they had a domestic violence consultant of the court or within the police to put this together in their case - maybe they will for an appeal.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Podcasts can hinder investigations but The Teacher's Pet proves it's a risk worth taking

True crime podcasts become part of the criminal cases they discuss in ways that can be considered both good and bad

inews.co.uk

True crime podcasts can hinder investigations but The Teacher’s Pet proves this is a risk worth taking​

 

[DRT]

Without trying to sound like I am defending Paul or Chris Dawson, I thought Pauline David's performance was under par and I got the distinct impression judge Ian Harrison did too.

Perhaps Pauline David realized they had nothing to work with and just decided to cloud things at every opportunity? Just about everything she raised was shot down by Harrison. She really didn't land a decisive blow at any point in the trial.

With respect to Pauline David while she was his lawyer in 1991 interview she got given his case shortly before the trial. She was on the backfoot the whole time. It seemed to me that when the judge asked her questions she had to think on her feet. The Harold Holt example was one of those and the having a mistress being a national sport in France was another. I think for the most part she did defend him well as you could given the time she had to prepare.