Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[JLZ]

Remember on episode two of the podcast I think it was where it was said by her sister Dierdre that Marion was planning on going to places Jane Austen had lived.
Jane Austen owned some early Tunbridge Ware boxes which were unique to the Kentish towns of Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells. Some examples of this form of decorative woodwork can be seen in the Tunbridge Wells Museum The spa town of Tunbridge Wells also appears in several of Jane’s novels. Her beloved brother Henry is buried in the small Woodbury Park Cemetery tucked behind St Johns Road.
Groombridge Place in Tunbridge Wells provided the perfect location for the Bennett’s family home in one of Jane Austen’s most famous novels, Pride and Prejudice.
The Austen family had many links to Kent that can be traced back as early as the 16th Century. Jane Austen's father, George Austen was born in Tonbridge and was once a pupil and headmaster of Tonbridge School
Between Worlds: Rev Henry Austen’s resting place
www.visitkent.co.uk/see-and-do/inspirational-ideas/jane-austen/

BBM. Jane Austen's life was centred in Hampshire. She also lived in Bath, Somerset, in the second half of her twenties, and made extended visits to her brother at Godmersham, Kent, in the region of Canterbury, starting from the age of about twenty-three. I don't think an interest in visiting where Jane Austen lived would explain Marion focussing her visit in Kent, especially Tunbridge Wells, which is a long way from Godmersham. However from the postcards Marion may have been travelling west along the south coast, that is, in the direction of Hampshire and, further on and inland, Bath. Locations along that coast do feature in the novels.

 

[poppypopcorn]

6 weeks in Kent/Sussex to visit Jane Austen related sites, yet never mentioning seeing anything Austen related in her postcards or calls? Gushing over tea with little old ladies, red squirrels or shopping rather than "I saw the place which inspired Sense and Sensibility" or whatever? Nah.

Ask anyone in the UK for areas they associate with Austen and it's either Bath, or her house and museum in Hampshire.

I know it's irrational but I am growing to dislike Marion quite a lot. The more we learn about her, the more she is coming across as needy, devious and manipulative to those closest too her and although at the start of hte podcast I was almost sure that she had been murdered, as time goes on I'm not so sure. At least not in 1997.

 

[KiwiNZ]

delete

 

[KiwiNZ]

[QUOTE="

I know it's irrational but I am growing to dislike Marion quite a lot. The more we learn about her, the more she is coming across as needy, devious and manipulative to those closest too her and although at the start of hte podcast I was almost sure that she had been murdered, as time goes on I'm not so sure. At least not in 1997.[/QUOTE]


I agree, I really cant get a grip on Marion, I think the family was very dysfunctional with very odd inherent qualities of mind and character. I think this would have extended to Marion as well, and possible Sally until she had less contact with the family and possible had a more balanced influence from her husbands family and looking back she is probably embarrassed and shocked as to how this was handled by the family, I know the grandfather tried but I think a lot more could have been done.

I noted Sally changed her name from Brown ( her father) to Barter ( a man she didn't really like) that doesn't come across as particular normal to me, or have much awareness of her fathers feelings in doing this. She doesn't mention a rift. I don't think their was much consideration for others in this family

Sally constantly makes excuses for every person in her family over what they have said, or how they reacted, when somethings would be inexcusable to most, but maybe she has a better insight as to why and how they tick, or maybe embarrassed by their statements or reactions.

It seems all 3 sisters are pretty ambivalent about her disappearance, so I can only assume Marion would have the same character and probably ambivalent to how others would feel if she left to start the life she wanted to lead, and her sisters pretty much said this.

I don't think she was murdered in 1997 either.

 

[Meligator]

Has anyone listened to the Richard Simmons podcast? I only mention b/c it makes me wonder if there are some similarities with Marion. Simmons’ location is known but he completely disappeared from public life and the podcaster hypothesizes that he possibly grew exhausted in the persona he had created taking care/supporting everyone else. In some ways I see Marion as similar — perfectly decorated classroom/home, hosting tea parties, well dressed, never forgetting to send a birthday card/gift. The woman who interviewed Marion for her job at TSS even said she felt like Marion was performing/acting during the interview. I wonder if maintaining that perfect persona coupled with the stress of not pleasing her mom/difficulties as school etc. was just too much.

 

[SaintGertrude]

One of the ways in which Marion could have exited to another country would have been by sea. Any ideas on this as it seems that only plane travel has been covered in posts I have read so far.
For example exiting via the ship belonging to Scientologists.
A private boat.
Leaving Australia on a cruise ship with a false identity.
Trans Siberian Railway/ passenger-carrying freighter (if you can find one!) or cruise ship from Australia.
The possibilities are endless so I just wanted to know peoples thoughts on the matter.
This article is useful if you tweak the wording to start from Australia.
www.seat61.com/europe-to-australia-without-flying.htm

 

[Estelle]

Has anyone listened to the Richard Simmons podcast? I only mention b/c it makes me wonder if there are some similarities with Marion. Simmons’ location is known but he completely disappeared from public life and the podcaster hypothesizes that he possibly grew exhausted in the persona he had created taking care/supporting everyone else. In some ways I see Marion as similar — perfectly decorated classroom/home, hosting tea parties, well dressed, never forgetting to send a birthday card/gift. The woman who interviewed Marion for her job at TSS even said she felt like Marion was performing/acting during the interview. I wonder if maintaining that perfect persona coupled with the stress of not pleasing her mom/difficulties as school etc. was just too much.

Due to Marion's family history, what did Marion have to live for? Sally's wedding and then being a grandmother? Some people in Marion's situation perhaps would have committed suicide unless she opened up to Sally about how she really felt or went for counselling. We could assume she could have been depressed. But moving to another country, you usually take the depression with you. However, in her postcards, she seemed content. It appears to me that the only thing that would have improved Marion's mood was to have a man in her life. But who was that man?

 

[Estelle]

One of the ways in which Marion could have exited to another country would have been by sea. Any ideas on this as it seems that only plane travel has been covered in posts I have read so far.
For example exiting via the ship belonging to Scientologists.
A private boat.
Leaving Australia on a cruise ship with a false identity.
Trans Siberian Railway/ passenger-carrying freighter (if you can find one!) or cruise ship from Australia.
The possibilities are endless so I just wanted to know peoples thoughts on the matter.
This article is useful if you tweak the wording to start from Australia.
www.seat61.com/europe-to-australia-without-flying.htm

Yes that is a new idea worth pursuing.

 

[Estelle]

[QUOTE="

I know it's irrational but I am growing to dislike Marion quite a lot. The more we learn about her, the more she is coming across as needy, devious and manipulative to those closest too her and although at the start of hte podcast I was almost sure that she had been murdered, as time goes on I'm not so sure. At least not in 1997.

I agree, I really cant get a grip on Marion, I think the family was very dysfunctional with very odd inherent qualities of mind and character. I think this would have extended to Marion as well, and possible Sally until she had less contact with the family and possible had a more balanced influence from her husbands family and looking back she is probably embarrassed and shocked as to how this was handled by the family, I know the grandfather tried but I think a lot more could have been done.

I noted Sally changed her name from Brown ( her father) to Barter ( a man she didn't really like) that doesn't come across as particular normal to me, or have much awareness of her fathers feelings in doing this. She doesn't mention a rift. I don't think their was much consideration for others in this family

Sally constantly makes excuses for every person in her family over what they have said, or how they reacted, when somethings would be inexcusable to most, but maybe she has a better insight as to why and how they tick, or maybe embarrassed by their statements or reactions.

It seems all 3 sisters are pretty ambivalent about her disappearance, so I can only assume Marion would have the same character and probably ambivalent to how others would feel if she left to start the life she wanted to lead, and her sisters pretty much said this.

I don't think she was murdered in 1997 either.[/QUOTE]

The way many of Marion's family have reacted and the way they communicate about Marion makes me feel as if none of them have any empathy. Lack of empathy usually means that narcissist personality disorder could be the reason.

Even the way Marion has reacted, makes me feel that she had little empathy for anyone but herself.

On the other hand, I think Sally is a codependent who has a lot of empathy for others and seems to be a people pleaser.

 

[KiwiNZ]

[QUOTE="

On the other hand, I think Sally is a codependent who has a lot of empathy for others and seems to be a people pleaser.[/QUOTE]

I agree she has a huge amount of empathy and makes excuses for others whom don't. I wonder if she was always like this (?) or has she been influenced by her husbands family (in a good way) as I don't think empathy or consideration for others was modelled in her childhood to be honest.

I think she makes a lot of excuses for her mother, which is understandable, but makes it difficult to get a good idea of her mothers personality.

I think if she had the same character as she has today she would have done things differently and she would have got an answer back then, that's what makes me thinks things have changed for her, others influence have made her look at things differently. I don't think when this started she was the same person as she is today, if that makes sense.

I really do hope Sally gets the answer no matter what it is, no one should be put through this.

 

[Estelle]

[QUOTE="

On the other hand, I think Sally is a codependent who has a lot of empathy for others and seems to be a people pleaser.

I agree she has a huge amount of empathy and makes excuses for others whom don't. I wonder if she was always been like this (?) or has she been influenced by her husbands family (in a good way) as I don't think empathy or consideration for others was modelled in her childhood to be honest.

I think she makes a lot of excuses for her mother, which is understandable, but makes it difficult to get a good idea of her mothers personality.

I think if she had the same character as she has today she would have done things differently and she would have got an answer back then, that's what makes me thinks things have changed for her, others influence have made her look at things differently. I don't think when this started she was the same person as she is today, if that makes sense.

I really do hope Sally gets the answer no matter what it is, no one should be put through this.[/QUOTE]

Yes I think Sally is more empowered now.

 

[SaintGertrude]

Yes that is a new idea worth pu8rsuing.

I read in newspaper articles that the Scientology ship had an Australian lady on board who felt like a prisoner. There is a list available of those onboard but no trace of Marion at all. (Tunbridge Wells is close to the UK headquarters in East Grinstead). I feel more convinced that a freight ship and train would have got Marion to Europe rather than a plane if she left Australia again.

 

[Estelle]

In my 20s I met a lovely girl who was a friend of a friend. I wanted to get to know her better. I asked my friend where she was. She replied she had gone to an Ashram in India. I guess she is still there. So Marion or her body could be anywhere in the world. And there are so many men she could have possibly "married" or travelled with or fantasized about marrying that it is difficult to narrow any of them down.

But I won't be satisfied until LE check out the Remakel one. IMO he is still the likely one. I think we can assume Marion did not suicide as her body would have to have been buried by someone who would have been accountable. BTW have you been checking death records? I don't really think she is still alive.

There is a company in the US which helps family with cold cases. I wonder if they are worth contacting?

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Random thought. Wonder if this is possible .... could Marion have got the new name to start up something like a Steiner/Waldorf school - with fake papers and a new name (then moving on to a name other than Florabella Remakel) - how would anyone know it was Marion Barter? Perhaps she started up a school with the mystery man in the car, with his help, and purposely began a new life and a new teaching career,
teaching the way she wanted to. Might be worth looking into what schools started up around '97, '98 etc - perhaps the "Luxembourg" was just a red herring.
**These links are from 2001, so I imagine it was probably even easier back in '97. MOO
27 Dec 2001 - Starting a Steiner School - Archived Website - Trove
18 Dec 2001 - New initiatives for schools - Archived Website - Trove

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Hi Itsapuzzle,

Very good thinking about the Steiner School angle. Perhaps she went to the UK to observe teaching practices at School s in the UK or received training. There's a Steiner school, Michael Hall School in Sussex, very close to Tunbridge Wells! There weren't many in Australia at that time. One started up in Mullumbimby in the early 1990s. 1993. Perhaps she invested in it and worked there. Can't explain why she went to such lengths to hide her identity though. And exactly how she could get another name.

But it's not very clear what actual investigations have been conducted by the police. Quite likely Marion would have started at the school in 1998 so in the new school year. Mullumbimby is just 20km to Byron Bay!

 

[Curiosity Cat]

Hi Itsapuzzle,

Very good thinking about the Steiner School angle. Perhaps she went to the UK to observe teaching practices at School s in the UK or received training. There's a Steiner school, Michael Hall School in Sussex, very close to Tunbridge Wells! There weren't many in Australia at that time. One started up in Mullumbimby in the early 1990s. 1993. Perhaps she invested in it and worked there. Can't explain why she went to such lengths to hide her identity though. And exactly how she could get another name.

But it's not very clear what actual investigations have been conducted by the police. Quite likely Marion would have started at the school in 1998 so in the new school year. Mullumbimby is just 20km to Byron Bay!

There's also a Steiner school .. Cape Byron, which opened in 1988 about 6km from Byron Bay.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Hi Itsapuzzle,

Very good thinking about the Steiner School angle. Perhaps she went to the UK to observe teaching practices at School s in the UK or received training. There's a Steiner school, Michael Hall School in Sussex, very close to Tunbridge Wells! There weren't many in Australia at that time. One started up in Mullumbimby in the early 1990s. 1993. Perhaps she invested in it and worked there. Can't explain why she went to such lengths to hide her identity though. And exactly how she could get another name.

But it's not very clear what actual investigations have been conducted by the police. Quite likely Marion would have started at the school in 1998 so in the new school year. Mullumbimby is just 20km to Byron Bay!

That's interesting Curiosity Cat, yes, maybe she was over there for Steiner training. I'm finding quite a few in Australia starting up around the '96 mark. I guess we'd only be able to find Marion by seeing a photo rather than looking for a name if she's done another switcheroo.

 

[Curiosity Cat]

That's interesting Curiosity Cat, yes, maybe she was over there for Steiner training. I'm finding quite a few in Australia starting up around the '96 mark. I guess we'd only be able to find Marion by seeing a photo rather than looking for a name if she's done another switcheroo.

I agree Itsapuzzle! I have been looking on line at quite a few this morning to see if she's on staff. There was one particular person of a suitable age, given their work history, but no ages. Forgotten the name ATM, but I'll look into it further. At this point, she may of course have retired, but I would expect she would have maintained some involvement. Also she may have moved onto a different school within the Steiner group. Anyway we've got something to look into.️

 

[SaintGertrude]

A deed poll may also be used to register a Billing Agent. A Billing Agent acts on the patient’s behalf to claim Medicare and private health insurance medical benefits.
How Does a Deed Poll Work? - Lawpath
How does this work? Would it hide any visits to dentists/doctors under the persons name.

 

[SaintGertrude]

A deed poll may also be used to register a Billing Agent. A Billing Agent acts on the patient’s behalf to claim Medicare and private health insurance medical benefits.
How Does a Deed Poll Work? - Lawpath
How does this work? Would the person registering with a dentist/opticians not need to give their address if a billing agent pays the invoices.
Could Marion maybe have used a power of attorney to hide her financial movements.

Also Maron must have kept her new name Remakel name for at least 12 Months unless she married.
Queensland allows for a name changes every 12 months, while in Victoria and NSW, you can only change your name 3 times in a lifetime.