Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #5

[Estelle]

It may sound random, but Marion could have popped over to Japan to get married en route to the UK. If she did get married. It's so easy and quick to get married there. Check out my earlier post. She would not have been able to get married in the UK.

I think being married on this trip was only a fantasy of Marion's. I really don't think she would have had time to get married in Japan as it was only a layover for the night possibly as she seems to have arrived in the UK not long after. I read a book once entitled, "Why am I nothing without a man?" which reminds me of Marion. Just because she or someone else put it on the incoming passenger card does not prove that she was actually married. To me this is a red herring.

Why get married in Japan if she could have gone to a Registry office in Australia and married before she went overseas? Your scenario implies to me that Marion must have travelled with the man she intended to marry and married there within a day or two (if it was actually a stopover). When I travelled with a man when single I often wore a wedding ring as some countries did not approve of unmarried people sharing a room. But that was in the 60s. Maybe Marion was still of that mindset.

 

[JLZ]

Thanks JLZ. I'm still confused about the bank, haha ..... so Sally remembered going into the old Commonwealth Bank location in 1997, and she described how it was set out, and the Commonwealth banker agreed with her, so it must have been the Comm Bank she went into. Has anyone been able to find the CBA's address at Byron Bay in 1997? In A Tangled Web Episode 13 around 28.23 Sally mentions the location of the bank had actually changed "it's actually a different bank, it used to be up there" - it's pretty important to find out which bank she went in because we've heard in the podcast the manager/teller basically seemed to recognise the photo and seemed a bit "shifty" - (my words) Were they shifty, or was it just the wrong bank? I can't figure it out

It doesn't make sense that she would have gone to the Commonwealth Bank in 1997. If there was one in Byron Bay, it almost certainly wasn't at either 56 or 58 Jonson Street. At that time the Commonwealth Bank wasn't connected with Colonial, and I can't think anyone would have confused or even associated the two. The Commonwealth Bank employee probably knew the layout of the Colonial site because Commonwealth moved into it before moving next door; it's also possible he or she was originally a Colonial employee. Think of Sally being at the Commonwealth recently and talking about a visit in 1997: "it's actually a different bank"--yes it was a different bank, which was later acquired by the Commonwealth--"it used to be up there"--true, it was at the building next door, and there's sort of a shop between them which occupies part of Commonwealth's building, but easily in pointing distance. It's too much of a coincidence to suppose that Sally made such an unreasonable mistake and then a few years later the wrong bank bought the right bank and moved in, relabelling it Commonwealth and all.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Queensland Teachers Credit union had their own travel agency - found on the wayback machine - could this of been whom Marion booked her trip through ?

Also found a list of people working there in 1997, would I be wasting the podcast teams time in sending this to them ? I hate wasting peoples time

 

[Itsapuzzle]

It doesn't make sense that she would have gone to the Commonwealth Bank in 1997. If there was one in Byron Bay, it almost certainly wasn't at either 56 or 58 Jonson Street. At that time the Commonwealth Bank wasn't connected with Colonial, and I can't think anyone would have confused or even associated the two. The Commonwealth Bank employee probably knew the layout of the Colonial site because Commonwealth moved into it before moving next door; it's also possible he or she was originally a Colonial employee. Think of Sally being at the Commonwealth recently and talking about a visit in 1997: "it's actually a different bank"--yes it was a different bank, which was later acquired by the Commonwealth--"it used to be up there"--true, it was at the building next door, and there's sort of a shop between them which occupies part of Commonwealth's building, but easily in pointing distance. It's too much of a coincidence to suppose that Sally made such an unreasonable mistake and then a few years later the wrong bank bought the right bank and moved in, relabelling it Commonwealth and all.

This is weird JLZ, just found this in Trove .... decided to search for CBA instead of Commonwealth Bank and it brings up more results. So this is strange, it says CBA Bank at 56 Jonson Street Byron Bay, snapshot November 1996. In the podcast Bryan says the Colonial State Bank was at 56 Jonson Street back in 1997 before the CBA takeover.
01 Nov 1996 - CBA - NSW Branch List - Archived Website - Trove

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Queensland Teachers Credit union had their own travel agency - found on the wayback machine - could this of been whom Marion booked her trip through ?

Also found a list of people working there in 1997, would I be wasting the podcast teams time in sending this to them ? I hate wasting peoples time

View attachment 310474

Sounds like some useful information KiwiNZ, good find, I'd say it's worth passing on for sure.

 

[Laughing]

Queensland Teachers Credit union had their own travel agency - found on the wayback machine - could this of been whom Marion booked her trip through ?

Also found a list of people working there in 1997, would I be wasting the podcast teams time in sending this to them ? I hate wasting peoples time

View attachment 310474

Agree completely with @Itsapuzzle , pass this on!!!

Thank for searching, @KiwiNZ !

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[SaintGertrude]

Sounds like some useful information KiwiNZ, good find, I'd say it's worth passing on for sure.

I would say the same, always worth passing on to the Lady Vanishes team.

 

[SaintGertrude]

2003

 

[SaintGertrude]

The huge question at the back of my mind was why would Marion choose Tunbridge Wells of all places to stay in the UK.
For anyone who lives in the South East of England/Southeast of central London (or even Tunbridge Wells itself) there are more interesting places to visit as tourist attractions. No offense intended to any sleuths who may come from the area. Then I just had my eureka moment and realised that Marion must have done her homework with Jane Austen. See observations below

 

[SaintGertrude]

Remember on episode two of the podcast I think it was where it was said by her sister Dierdre that Marion was planning on going to places Jane Austen had lived.
Jane Austen owned some early Tunbridge Ware boxes which were unique to the Kentish towns of Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells. Some examples of this form of decorative woodwork can be seen in the Tunbridge Wells Museum The spa town of Tunbridge Wells also appears in several of Jane’s novels. Her beloved brother Henry is buried in the small Woodbury Park Cemetery tucked behind St Johns Road.
Groombridge Place in Tunbridge Wells provided the perfect location for the Bennett’s family home in one of Jane Austen’s most famous novels, Pride and Prejudice.
The Austen family had many links to Kent that can be traced back as early as the 16th Century. Jane Austen's father, George Austen was born in Tonbridge and was once a pupil and headmaster of Tonbridge School
Between Worlds: Rev Henry Austen’s resting place
www.visitkent.co.uk/see-and-do/inspirational-ideas/jane-austen/

 

[KiwiNZ]

Remember on episode two of the podcast I think it was where it was said by her sister Dierdre that Marion was planning on going to places Jane Austen had lived.
Jane Austen owned some early Tunbridge Ware boxes which were unique to the Kentish towns of Tonbridge and Tunbridge Wells. Some examples of this form of decorative woodwork can be seen in the Tunbridge Wells Museum The spa town of Tunbridge Wells also appears in several of Jane’s novels. Her beloved brother Henry is buried in the small Woodbury Park Cemetery tucked behind St Johns Road.
Groombridge Place in Tunbridge Wells provided the perfect location for the Bennett’s family home in one of Jane Austen’s most famous novels, Pride and Prejudice.
The Austen family had many links to Kent that can be traced back as early as the 16th Century. Jane Austen's father, George Austen was born in Tonbridge and was once a pupil and headmaster of Tonbridge School
Between Worlds: Rev Henry Austen’s resting place
www.visitkent.co.uk/see-and-do/inspirational-ideas/jane-austen/

Her friend also said she wanted to spend time in Jane Austen country, so I do think she purposely went there for that reason

 

[SaintGertrude]

Her friend also said she wanted to spend time in Jane Austen country, so I do think she purposely went there for that reason

I think so and nothing out of the ordinary at all with staying in Tunbridge Wells. Marion being a teacher would have done her homework even without the internet available as much as it is today. I wonder if Rye has any hidden gems relating to Jane Austen. The Rye Community Centre may have put on a theatre production
Jane Austen – The Early Years as they did in 2017. I wonder if they have archives going back to 1997. I still don't know where Luxembourg would fit in with all of this though.

 

[SaintGertrude]

I am not sure if this is any good for sleuths as Southport School TSS around 1997 so thought I would share

 

[SaintGertrude]

Here is a link to the TSS newsletter just after Marion's departure in case any gleans of information.
TSS Newsletter

 

[Curiosity Cat]

I think being married on this trip was only a fantasy of Marion's. I really don't think she would have had time to get married in Japan as it was only a layover for the night possibly as she seems to have arrived in the UK not long after. I read a book once entitled, "Why am I nothing without a man?" which reminds me of Marion. Just because she or someone else put it on the incoming passenger card does not prove that she was actually married. To me this is a red herring.

Why get married in Japan if she could have gone to a Registry office in Australia and married before she went overseas? Your scenario implies to me that Marion must have travelled with the man she intended to marry and married there within a day or two (if it was actually a stopover). When I travelled with a man when single I often wore a wedding ring as some countries did not approve of unmarried people sharing a room. But that was in the 60s. Maybe Marion was still of that mindset.

It's just that in Australia her potential marriage would be traceable. From my understanding, all avenues of name change have been searched and turned up nothing. Marion was going to great lengths to disappear. I imagine she might have seen that as a suitable way to be married, change name /identity and so on. Just a line of thinking IMOO.

 

[Richardrli]

First post here after following this fascinating case for a while now. When exactly did Marion/Florabella land back in Australia on the 2nd August 1997? Why isn't that time of day known? Or where (Brisbane or another place)? Quick thanks in advance and apologies if these are already known

 

[Itsapuzzle]

First post here after following this fascinating case for a while now. When exactly did Marion/Florabella land back in Australia on the 2nd August 1997? Why isn't that time of day known? Or where (Brisbane or another place)? Quick thanks in advance and apologies if these are already known

Welcome Richardrli. The incoming passenger card is stamped Brisbane Airport, 2 August. Cathay Pacific Flight departed Hong Kong at 11 pm on August 1.
From Podcast Episode 16 Home Truths around 11.31 mins into episode.

***Edited to update information

 

[JLZ]

This is weird JLZ, just found this in Trove .... decided to search for CBA instead of Commonwealth Bank and it brings up more results. So this is strange, it says CBA Bank at 56 Jonson Street Byron Bay, snapshot November 1996. In the podcast Bryan says the Colonial State Bank was at 56 Jonson Street back in 1997 before the CBA takeover.
01 Nov 1996 - CBA - NSW Branch List - Archived Website - Trove

OK that is strange. I'll have to think about that. Thanks.

 

[JLZ]

I wonder if it's the other way around, and #56 was always a Commonwealth branch, and after Commonwealth acquired Colonial the address also became connected to the Colonial name. Colonial First State continued as a more or less self-contained funds management business within CBA after the takeover; so perhaps Colonial State Bank also continued existence as part of CBA and operating through CBA branches. I was thinking of making a phone call to Commonwealth Bank to see what I could clear up. There's also an archives section with an email address.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

OK that is strange. I'll have to think about that. Thanks.

Thanks JLZ. The final column, with the heading "Type", it has the abbreviations of FB, BR and CB .... next to the Byron Bay branch it says FB, h'mm, wonder what that stands for, I got no idea at this point.
01 Nov 1996 - CBA - NSW Branch List - Archived Website - Trove