Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997

[Itsapuzzle]

I took it that he didn't want her drama. The way she carried on about the broken plate etc. Sounds like too much high maintenance for a DTE bloke like Greg.

Thanks tempcoops, whoops, I should have put the time stamp in, it's in Episode 13 at 31.29 , his answer to this question:
"So, easier question, before she left how long had you been not dating?" Can't hear the first few words of his answer. Am wondering when that wedding in Byron Bay was too. Cheers

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Thanks tempcoops, whoops, I should have put the time stamp in, it's in Episode 13 at 31.29 , his answer to this question:
"So, easier question, before she left how long had you been not dating?" Can't hear the first few words of his answer. Am wondering when that wedding in Byron Bay was too. Cheers

The sound quality is pretty bad in that bit Sally's 100 decibels and Greg is barely audible. I cant get it either. I think he says 'it was off then she came back then after that she wanted to go to a wedding'. She broke off with him completely when he didnt want to go to the wedding with her.
Interesting that Sally went with her Mother to the wedding but didnt know that 1. Greg had been invited first (when her Mum asked her to go wouldnt she was said what about Greg?) 2. Marion was upset he hadnt gone with her and 3. Marion and Greg had broken up. Clearly Marion kept her personal life strictly private from Sally.

I find it a bit odd that Sally didnt know who went with her mother to the teacher award ceremony. Sally seems to have gotten her information about that night from Lesley. The award would have been a big deal to Marion, why wasnt her daughter there? Perhaps the teacher award was earlier on when Sally wasnt living at the coast but I'd expect her to know all about it, have photos etc

I wonder why Allison needed to mention Greg's age? Greg is 9 years younger than Marion. Have they done this with the other people they have interviewed? I haven't noticed it before.

 

[natural sagacity]

The sound quality is pretty bad in that bit Sally's 100 decibels and Greg is barely audible. I cant get it either. I think he says 'it was off then she came back then after that she wanted to go to a wedding'. She broke off with him completely when he didnt want to go to the wedding with her.
Interesting that Sally went with her Mother to the wedding but didnt know that 1. Greg had been invited first (when her Mum asked her to go wouldnt she was said what about Greg?) 2. Marion was upset he hadnt gone with her and 3. Marion and Greg had broken up. Clearly Marion kept her personal life strictly private from Sally.

I find it a bit odd that Sally didnt know who went with her mother to the teacher award ceremony. Sally seems to have gotten her information about that night from Lesley. The award would have been a big deal to Marion, why wasnt her daughter there? Perhaps the teacher award was earlier on when Sally wasnt living at the coast but I'd expect her to know all about it, have photos etc

I wonder why Allison needed to mention Greg's age? Greg is 9 years younger than Marion. Have they done this with the other people they have interviewed? I haven't noticed it before.

Marian was a cougar

 

[natural sagacity]

So will putting Marion on the Missing Persons Register actually help find her? I doubt it because if all the publicity hasn't done anything then the register wont either.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

The sound quality is pretty bad in that bit Sally's 100 decibels and Greg is barely audible. I cant get it either. I think he says 'it was off then she came back then after that she wanted to go to a wedding'. She broke off with him completely when he didnt want to go to the wedding with her.
Interesting that Sally went with her Mother to the wedding but didnt know that 1. Greg had been invited first (when her Mum asked her to go wouldnt she was said what about Greg?) 2. Marion was upset he hadnt gone with her and 3. Marion and Greg had broken up. Clearly Marion kept her personal life strictly private from Sally.

I find it a bit odd that Sally didnt know who went with her mother to the teacher award ceremony. Sally seems to have gotten her information about that night from Lesley. The award would have been a big deal to Marion, why wasnt her daughter there? Perhaps the teacher award was earlier on when Sally wasnt living at the coast but I'd expect her to know all about it, have photos etc

I wonder why Allison needed to mention Greg's age? Greg is 9 years younger than Marion. Have they done this with the other people they have interviewed? I haven't noticed it before.

Ah, thanks Intrigued, I had totally missed the part where Sally said that she went to that wedding at Byron Bay. Re mentioning ages, yes, I heard mention of Mr Barter being a younger man, forget who said it, might have been Marion's sister, but not 100 per cent sure

 

[Itsapuzzle]

So will putting Marion on the Missing Persons Register actually help find her? I doubt it because if all the publicity hasn't done anything then the register wont either.

I think it will natural sagacity, I think it means they can do all the police checks and all that goes with it, it would be beneficial in this case I reckon

 

[natural sagacity]

I think it will natural sagacity, I think it means they can do all the police checks and all that goes with it, it would be beneficial in this case I reckon

I remember Gary saying he did 17 + searches such as centrelink, medicare, licence, death etc but failed to find anything. Hopefully something will be found soon.

 

[sunnynz]

Here's the link to Marion's missing person profile on the national register - just added today Florabella Natalia Marion (aka Marion) REMAKEL (AKA BARTER)

Missing since:
Sunday, June 22, 1997
Last seen:
Surfers Paradise, Queensland
Responsible jurisdiction:
NSW
Year of birth:
1945
Age now:
73
Gender:
Female
Height:
167cm
Build:
Slim
Hair:
Dark
Eyes:
Green/hazel
Complexion:
Fair
Distinguishing Features:
Freckle under right eye, small scar under nose.
Circumstances
Between 1992 and 1997 Florabella Remakel, who at that time was known as Marion Barter, worked as a teacher at The Southport School (TSS) on the Gold Coast. In 1996 she won a state wide Queensland teaching excellence award.

Prior to May 1997, Florabella changed her name from Marion Barter to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel and obtained a new Australian passport in that name. She did not disclose her name change to her family and on the 22 June 1997, she travelled to England for a planned holiday.

In late July or early August 1997, Florabella spoke to her daughter by phone and she indicated she was in England, making no mention of returning to Australia.

Florabella’s passport indicates she returned to Australia via Brisbane at 10am on the 2 August 1997. She arrived back in the country without notifying anyone and has not made contact with anyone since.

On the 13/8/1997, a Medicare card in the name of Marion Barter was used at a doctor’s surgery at Grafton Shopping World.

In October 1997, Florabella’s daughter received information that a bank account in the name of Marion Barter had been accessed in Byron Bay and Burleigh Heads. Enquiries also revealed that a further withdrawal was made at Ashmore in Queensland.

The last time Florabella was seen in Australia was at the Surfers Paradise Bus terminal on 22 June 1997.

If you have information that may assist police to locate Florabella please call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

Do you have any information?

• Report information to Crime Stoppers

 

[sunnynz]

So will putting Marion on the Missing Persons Register actually help find her? I doubt it because if all the publicity hasn't done anything then the register wont either.

Definitely. How many cases have we seen on websleuths of Jane and John Does being identified because someone, somewhere was searching for missing persons who matched them (answer - loads!).

It's crucially important to have her in a searchable database. Not everyone listens to podcasts and watches the news - seriously media is so fragmented these days that there would be a huge portion of the population that know nothing of this case.

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Here's the link to Marion's missing person profile on the national register - just added today Florabella Natalia Marion (aka Marion) REMAKEL (AKA BARTER)

Missing since:
Sunday, June 22, 1997
Last seen:
Surfers Paradise, Queensland
Responsible jurisdiction:
NSW
Year of birth:
1945
Age now:
73
Gender:
Female
Height:
167cm
Build:
Slim
Hair:
Dark
Eyes:
Green/hazel
Complexion:
Fair
Distinguishing Features:
Freckle under right eye, small scar under nose.
Circumstances
Between 1992 and 1997 Florabella Remakel, who at that time was known as Marion Barter, worked as a teacher at The Southport School (TSS) on the Gold Coast. In 1996 she won a state wide Queensland teaching excellence award.

Prior to May 1997, Florabella changed her name from Marion Barter to Florabella Natalia Marion Remakel and obtained a new Australian passport in that name. She did not disclose her name change to her family and on the 22 June 1997, she travelled to England for a planned holiday.

In late July or early August 1997, Florabella spoke to her daughter by phone and she indicated she was in England, making no mention of returning to Australia.

Florabella’s passport indicates she returned to Australia via Brisbane at 10am on the 2 August 1997. She arrived back in the country without notifying anyone and has not made contact with anyone since.

On the 13/8/1997, a Medicare card in the name of Marion Barter was used at a doctor’s surgery at Grafton Shopping World.

In October 1997, Florabella’s daughter received information that a bank account in the name of Marion Barter had been accessed in Byron Bay and Burleigh Heads. Enquiries also revealed that a further withdrawal was made at Ashmore in Queensland.

The last time Florabella was seen in Australia was at the Surfers Paradise Bus terminal on 22 June 1997.

If you have information that may assist police to locate Florabella please call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000.

Do you have any information?

• Report information to Crime Stoppers

Oh wow, thanks sunnynz, completely wonderful ... hope it leads to the much searched for answers.

 

[Jroamcleveland]

In the call with Remakel first wife she says something interesting. She says his sister also Marion or Marian loved flowers and was a florist. I found this striking. Here’s a theory

Fernand Remakel and his sister or accomplice ran a scam to find foreign women and fleece them.

What is required to get a change of name and passport in 1998. Could a lover (Fernand) who got close to her and perhaps stole the wallet manage to get a name change and passport without Marion knowing. Calling this new person florrabella “flower lover”

Could they lure her overseas then commit foul play. Having the accomplice return to Aus on the florabella name to fleece money. Perhaps then on the immigration card saying she was a Luxembourg housewife was true. It wasn’t Marion at all.

 

[Josiegirl62]

Was the Colonial Bank of Australia shortened to CBA? Years later Sally may have thought she rang the Commonwealth Bank when looking at her notes with "CBA" - which today is the Commonwealth Bank. Hence the confusion post 2001 when they merged. Just a thought.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

So will putting Marion on the Missing Persons Register actually help find her? I doubt it because if all the publicity hasn't done anything then the register wont either.

Sally has always seemed pretty convinced her Mum has passed so I think this is also about securing an inquest. Having Marion listed as a missing person gives more chance of that happening.
At the inquest everything the police have is reviewed so Sally would get access to information previously withheld. An inquest could also officially declare Marion dead and enable her estate to be finalized. So the missing person list might lead to a resolution even if it doesnt find Marion.

If/when there is an inquest I hope it is a closed session (if there is such a thing) so that Marion's desire for privacy is respected.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Ah, thanks Intrigued, I had totally missed the part where Sally said that she went to that wedding at Byron Bay. Re mentioning ages, yes, I heard mention of Mr Barter being a younger man, forget who said it, might have been Marion's sister, but not 100 per cent sure

Thanks Itsapuzzel I must have missed that - it's just me being prickly then. I'm a bit suspicious that the podcast are trying to get listeners to perceive Marion in a particular way.

 

[Intriguedbyintrigue]

Was the Colonial Bank of Australia shortened to CBA? Years later Sally may have thought she rang the Commonwealth Bank when looking at her notes with "CBA" - which today is the Commonwealth Bank. Hence the confusion post 2001 when they merged. Just a thought.

It's so easy to do!
I'm not sure if Colonial were ever referred to as CBA. Their title didnt have "of Australia" in it though they were Colonial Bank Limited - so in theory their acronym should have been CBL

 

[Itsapuzzle]

Friday thoughts .... in Episode 13 around 26.32
" ....both of the two accounts Marion held in 1997 had incorrect birthdates. One was the right date but the wrong year. The other had the wrong date, but the right year". "The second account was flagged for ATM fraud." ....."We can only presume that this was the account drained to zero at Byron Bay and Burleigh in 1997".
Could this account flagged for ATM fraud have been regarding the person who stole Marion's wallet? And incorrect dates, what's that all about .... is that to do with the fraudster too? Not sure.
Also been thinking, that Medicare card, would that have been in the stolen wallet? Maybe it was the stolen Medicare card used the once in Grafton by the thief, hence that's why it was used only the once. Marion must have got a replacement one. End of Friday musings.

 

[natural sagacity]

Definitely. How many cases have we seen on websleuths of Jane and John Does being identified because someone, somewhere was searching for missing persons who matched them (answer - loads!).

It's crucially important to have her in a searchable database. Not everyone listens to podcasts and watches the news - seriously media is so fragmented these days that there would be a huge portion of the population that know nothing of this case.

That is if she is dead and authorities have her remains, however if she is alive then it will not make any difference. I think she is alive and taking in to account that the average life expectancy of a female is 82.5, it is probable. The fact that this case has more media coverage than all of the missing persons put together means that if she is alive means that she may be living overseas or in a cult environment. I think many people want to believe that she is dead because they haven't heard from her, but isn't that the aim of disappearing and starting a new life?

 

[natural sagacity]

Sally has always seemed pretty convinced her Mum has passed so I think this is also about securing an inquest. Having Marion listed as a missing person gives more chance of that happening.
At the inquest everything the police have is reviewed so Sally would get access to information previously withheld. An inquest could also officially declare Marion dead and enable her estate to be finalized. So the missing person list might lead to a resolution even if it doesnt find Marion.

If /when there is an inquest I hope it is a closed session (if there is such a thing) so that Marion's desire for privacy is respected.

I think it is a bit late to be worrying about Marion's privacy. Her whole private life has be made public for the world to share.
I will be surprised if there is an inquest and if there is it will most likely be an open finding based on the facts the police have that made them make the decision that she chose to disappear.
I think the fact Marion has a lot of money in superannuation is Sally's motive for pushing for a inquest.

 

[natural sagacity]

In the call with Remakel first wife she says something interesting. She says his sister also Marion or Marian loved flowers and was a florist. I found this striking. Here’s a theory

Fernand Remakel and his sister or accomplice ran a scam to find foreign women and fleece them.

What is required to get a change of name and passport in 1998. Could a lover (Fernand) who got close to her and perhaps stole the wallet manage to get a name change and passport without Marion knowing. Calling this new person florrabella “flower lover”

Could they lure her overseas then commit foul play. Having the accomplice return to Aus on the florabella name to fleece money. Perhaps then on the immigration card saying she was a Luxembourg housewife was true. It wasn’t Marion at all.

I think the Remakel thing is just a coincidence. The advertisement in the paper was placed 2 years prior to Marion leaving. I am more inclined to think the name Remakel is Marions idea to remake her life. It seems her life was a train wreck made up of working at a school full of bullies and paedophiles, 3 failed marriages, poor relationships with her family and other broken'personal relationships.

 

[Jroamcleveland]

I think the Remakel thing is just a coincidence. The advertisement in the paper was placed 2 years prior to Marion leaving. I am more inclined to think the name Remakel is Marions idea to remake her life. It seems her life was a train wreck made up of working at a school full of bullies and paedophiles, 3 failed marriages, poor relationships with her family and other broken'personal relationships.

Its just such and odd way to remake your life. The whole change of name by deed poll is odd. You only need to do this to get documentation. She could join a commune and run away with another man and call herself whatever she wanted. Why bother to change it a month before going on holiday via deed poll? It seems to me the motivation of this is to get alternate documents. Why get the alternate documents? Its not like you can hide the fact you changed your name, you look it up in 5 seconds. It makes me think the new documents were for a very explicit purpose. They provided a way for someone to pose as Marion and get in and out of Australia with the money. They have never been used since. If Marion wanted a new life why not just go on holiday and stay over there on Marion Barter passport. Why not just request an international money transfer to another account. Going in to a bank every day for 2 weeks to draw money is not the type of behaviour for someone who wants to disappear.