Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[gymtonic]

A big YES! from me to all of @peraltas last three posts!
Plus IMO re aliases, passports and travel - doing this with confidence could be even easier with links to the "right" people/ insiders who can facilitate this.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

1971 (Jan to March) – walker family arrive back in Aust - See page 1099 - NAA

I’ve seen their arrival cards. I was getting cranky cos I could actually fin the route. But now I understand ship went uk, Panama, Sam Francisco Sydney

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Looking on NAA, using "Chusan" as a search term, it appears there is a ship Chusan departing San Francisco USA 12/2/71 and a ship Chusan arriving 10/3/71 in Sydney.

Thanks Bonnie !

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Looking on NAA, using "Chusan" as a search term, it appears there is a ship Chusan departing San Francisco USA 12/2/71 and a ship Chusan arriving 10/3/71 in Sydney.

Thanks Bonnie !

So the ship departed Southampton in early Jan 1971 to Caribbean, Panama to LA, San Francisco then to Sydney. March 10th. I recall RB saying it was a round trip and the last cruise of the Chusan so I guess it departed Sydney back to Southampton.
I think the confusion stems from DdH insisting the ship sailed from Southampton in 1970. I still can't swallow RB first seeing her at the swimming pool in the dead of winter though unless she was a member of the Bondi Icebergs.

i can’t swallow anything he says lol

 

[BonnieB]

Just to clarify a common misconception, we don’t know if RB presented himself to Marion as FNR.

In RB’s version of events (to be taken with a grain of salt), they first met in Switzerland when he was WW.

He claims they met again in 1996 or 97 after she posted a lonely hearts ad that he responded to. At inquest, he first said he responded as WW, then he said he can’t remember. I don’t think he was asked what name Marion specifically called him, maybe this will happen in April?

RB also claims he never used the FNR name or licence other than for the 1994 Le Courrier rencontre (obviously, I don't believe it).

We have no idea if Marion ever saw the 1994 rencontre, and we have no evidence RB ever called himself FNR during his affair with Marion in 1996/97.

Also note that RB used the Richard Westbury alias to travel in and out of Aus to Japan during Marion’s disappearance.

It is possible RB flew the JAL leg of the trip as Richard Westbury, then used FNR, Fredy David or some other name for the European leg of the trip when he was allegedly with Marion.

The reason I bring up Fredy David is that he and DdH excessively lied to obscure that alias, so I wonder if he was still using it overseas?

Which leads us to ask, what name did RB actually use on Marion? There might be other reasons why Marion changed her name to FNMR, other than ‘it was RB’s name' and 'she married him’.

As we’ve discussed, despite what it says on Marion’s passenger cards, there’s no evidence that she ran away permanently and was currently a married housewife living in Luxembourg. In fact, we know much of that sentence is not true.

To me, it just looks as though someone tried very hard to make it look that way. Just IMO.

I agree, we must always keep in mind that supposition is not fact, however without supposition, we might never look for hidden evidence.

IMO the person who tried to make it look as though Marion was Mrs R, housewife of Luxembourg was Marion herself!
I think she wanted/needed to believe in the fairytale ending so much that she reinforced her belief on that card and probably delighted in doing so.
I don't believe she ever intended to 'disappear', in fact I suspect she relished the idea of the 'big reveal' after her marriage to (pure supposition on my part) well known ex-football player & wealthy businessman FNR.
How he managed to con her for the need of secrecy and haste is another matter but I do believe TSS was part of it. IMO of course.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Just to clarify a common misconception, we don’t know if RB presented himself to Marion as FNR.

In RB’s version of events (to be taken with a grain of salt), they first met in Switzerland when he was WW.

He claims they met again in 1996 or 97 after she posted a lonely hearts ad that he responded to. At inquest, he first said he responded as WW, then he said he can’t remember. I don’t think he was asked what name Marion specifically called him, maybe this will happen in April?

RB also claims he never used the FNR name or licence other than for the 1994 Le Courrier rencontre (obviously, I don't believe it).

We have no idea if Marion ever saw the 1994 rencontre, and we have no evidence RB ever called himself FNR during his affair with Marion in 1996/97.

Also note that RB used the Richard Westbury alias to travel in and out of Aus to Japan during Marion’s disappearance.

It is possible RB flew the JAL leg of the trip as Richard Westbury, then used FNR, Fredy David or some other name for the European leg of the trip when he was allegedly with Marion.

The reason I bring up Fredy David is that he and DdH excessively lied to obscure that alias, so I wonder if he was still using it overseas?

Which leads us to ask, what name did RB actually use on Marion? There might be other reasons why Marion changed her name to FNMR, other than ‘it was RB’s name' and 'she married him’.

As we’ve discussed, despite what it says on Marion’s passenger cards, there’s no evidence that she ran away permanently and was currently a married housewife living in Luxembourg. In fact, we know much of that sentence is not true.

To me, it just looks as though someone tried very hard to make it look that way. Just IMO.

He also didn’t answer the question as to whether that was an alias he used.. simply said that’s my brother.
We know he used FD on Chusan… - not sure what name he left on to head to jail or what name he came back on… but IMO somewhere perhaps not open files yet there are more FD departure & Arrival cards in the 70’s leading up to name change prior to marriage.

 

[BonnieB]

He also didn’t answer the question as to whether that was an alias he used.. simply said that’s my brother.
We know he used FD on Chusan… - not sure what name he left on to head to jail or what name he came back on… but IMO somewhere perhaps not open files yet there are more FD departure & Arrival cards in the 70’s leading up to name change prior to marriage.

Freddy departed on 12th May 1971 via Noumea to Amsterdam. Perhaps LE have bigger fish to fry than mere illegal passport use.

 

[KiwiNZ]

sorry I have lost track of the passenger cards we have so far - have we looked at this one ? sorry if I am doubling up

24th of May 1969 - page 613

View digital copy (naa.gov.au)

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Freddy departed on 12th May 1971 via Noumea to Amsterdam. Perhaps LE have bigger fish to fry than mere illegal passport use.

Most def they do… however I still scratch my head with the fact immigration aside from flag years ago…not doing anything long before 1997

 

[Nnbee]

In the first or second episode of the podcast they mentioned something about MB being accused of SA of the boys at the school. Isn’t that what GGB said Wonka threatened her with as well?
I feel like it was wonka who made an anonymous complaint at the school about MB and that’s why she quit so quickly and quietly. I don’t think she would of had any idea it was him who made that claim against her. Could also explain why she felt it was so important to return the scales. She didn’t want any trouble from the school.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

In the first or second episode of the podcast they mentioned something about MB being accused of SA of the boys at the school. Isn’t that what GGB said Wonka threatened her with as well?
I feel like it was wonka who made an anonymous complaint at the school about MB and that’s why she quit so quickly and quietly. I don’t think she would of had any idea it was him who made that claim against her. Could also explain why she felt it was so important to return the scales. She didn’t want any trouble from the school.

I thought the complaint was ‘A’ not SA

 

[mishy66]

2. He already knew DW and saw her as potential compliant wife material. I don't believe he is capable of 'love' in the normal sense. IMO

Agree!

 

[mishy66]

In the first or second episode of the podcast they mentioned something about MB being accused of SA of the boys at the school. Isn’t that what GGB said Wonka threatened her with as well?
I feel like it was wonka who made an anonymous complaint at the school about MB and that’s why she quit so quickly and quietly. I don’t think she would of had any idea it was him who made that claim against her. Could also explain why she felt it was so important to return the scales. She didn’t want any trouble from the school.

Agree!

 

[mishy66]

sorry I have lost track of the passenger cards we have so far - have we looked at this one ? sorry if I am doubling up

24th of May 1969 - page 613

View digital copy (naa.gov.au)

yes this is when he first enters with IK - her arrival 2 days prior
WW arrives in Perth, from London

On that ~ they both arrive separately and leave Aust again separately....

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The whole bank situation is rather confusing. I'm gonna try breaking it down to see where it lands...

Withdrawals means cash was physically removed from account.
Electronic transfer means money was moved from one account to 'another account'.
Another account means:

• a different account of same person with the same bank or a different bank
• someone else's personal account
• a business account, for the purpose of paying a bill or purchase
• a different financial institution, so another person can go and collect it, aka wire transfer.

Daily $5k Byron withdrawals, Aug-Sept 1997

• Assumed to be cash withdrawals.
• Sally heard about this on 21 Oct 1997, from Commonwealth telebanking call centre.
• The cash could have been taken home, immediately deposited into another account, or stored in a security envelope.

$80k from Ashmore, 15 Oct 1997

• Unclear if it was withdrawn or transferred.
• In April 1998 GC Byron Police said, ''$80k was electronically transferred to another account, possibly overseas, to start a new life with her partner.''
• In March 1999, Salvation Army said they spoke to police, who spoke to bank who said, ''Marion withdrew $80k (the balance of her account) and spoke of starting a new life’'.
• Colonial say they never received a call from police making enquiries about Marion.

14 Oct 1997
FDdH pays $13 from joint account to purchase / put something into a safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Bank Ballina, which only he can access. The most commonly used size is an A3 envelope.

14 or 15 Oct 1997
In Feb 2022 we learned that in brief of evidence, there’s a Commonwealth document showing an ‘automatic funds transfer’.

27 Oct 1997
RB cancels safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Ballina.

@Binniem thank you for your very useful explanations! Basically, at the time, if people wanted to transfer money between their accounts, they'd usually withdraw the cash, walk over to their other bank and make a cash deposit there. That's because transferring money between other banks needed to be done 'in branch' for a fee.

So it is possible that the 'document' is a record of that transaction.

Please let me know if I got anything wrong

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just leaving this here as a reminder and because there are many new sleuths who might not know:

Commonwealth bank fraud by manager
GP Higgins used to work at Commonwealth Bank, Byron Bay branch at the time Marion disappeared (it's in my notes but can't find the source on exact dates he worked there).

He was not the manager at that time, as that person died in early 2019 and their name was never revealed (Inquest 2021).

However, he was definitely the assistant manager at Byron, at some point prior to 2001.

He eventually become bank manager and lead the South Tweed branch between 2001-02, where he defrauded an elderly and vulnerable customer of $80k. It was only discovered once the customer died and her will was being sorted. He was convicted of it in 2006 (The Daily Telegraph).

This is just an example of the fraudulent activity that was taking place, just 4 years after Marion disappeared.

 

[Liselle]

sorry I have lost track of the passenger cards we have so far - have we looked at this one ? sorry if I am doubling up

24th of May 1969 - page 613

View digital copy (naa.gov.au)

@KiwiNZ Yes, we have perused this card and I am amused by "usual occupation", a corporate director. But these were the years when our WW had previously been "recouperating, skiiing and meeting MB in Switzerland"!

 

[Nnbee]

I thought the complaint was ‘A’ not SA

My apologies. Is there a way I can edit my original post? I can’t figure it out.

 

[gymtonic]

The whole bank situation is rather confusing. I'm gonna try breaking it down to see where it lands...

Withdrawals means cash was physically removed from account.
Electronic transfer means money was moved from one account to 'another account'.
Another account means:

• a different account of same person with the same bank or a different bank
• someone else's personal account
• a business account, for the purpose of paying a bill or purchase
• a different financial institution, so another person can go and collect it, aka wire transfer.

Daily $5k Byron withdrawals, Aug-Sept 1997

• Assumed to be cash withdrawals.
• Sally heard about this on 21 Oct 1997, from Commonwealth telebanking call centre.
• The cash could have been taken home, immediately deposited into another account, or stored in a security envelope.

$80k from Ashmore, 15 Oct 1997

• Unclear if it was withdrawn or transferred.
• In April 1998 GC Byron Police said, ''$80k was electronically transferred to another account, possibly overseas, to start a new life with her partner.''
• In March 1999, Salvation Army said they spoke to police, who spoke to bank who said, ''Marion withdrew $80k (the balance of her account) and spoke of starting a new life’'.
• Colonial say they never received a call from police making enquiries about Marion.

14 Oct 1997
FDdH pays $13 from joint account to purchase / put something into a safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Bank Ballina, which only he can access. The most commonly used size is an A3 envelope.

14 or 15 Oct 1997
In Feb 2022 we learned that in brief of evidence, there’s a Commonwealth document showing an ‘automatic funds transfer’.

27 Oct 1997
RB cancels safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Ballina.

@Binniem thank you for your very useful explanations! Basically, at the time, if people wanted to transfer money between their accounts, they'd usually withdraw the cash, walk over to their other bank and make a cash deposit there. That's because transferring money between other banks needed to be done 'in branch' for a fee.

So it is possible that the 'document' is a record of that transaction.

Please let me know if I got anything wrong

Not corrections, but I started a list of dot points to do with the banking aspects. I haven't put it together as coherently as this but maybe of additional help?

Banking Notes

Barclays UK
· $20,000 in a/c for holiday expenses. After 15 years inactivity funds moved to Reclaim Fund to be used for the community. Claim can still be made.

· MB made Barclays the address for the Ashmore a/c

· Visa Card statement gave address of Barclays Bank, Mint St, in Rye (recorded mailing address)

· Would have had to have multiple elements of ID



Colonial State Bank
· MB held a/c with Colonial Bank at Ashmore. (possibly 2 accounts)

· Branches at Byron, Burleigh Heads, Ashmore, Lismore, Southport, Tweed Heads.

· Colonial merged with Comm Bank in Dec 2000

· So money came out of Colonial Bank at Byron and Burleigh? Not comm bank (yes according to inquest)

· Money from house sale put into a High Performance Cash a/c. with daily limit of $5,000

· $14,00 left behind? or was this Barclay's Bank (unsure) Closed and sent to unclaimed money.

· There was no security officer at Ashmore Branch. Betty Brown from Salvos said she spoke to police who told her they spoke to bank security officer who IDed MB.


Procedures 1997
· Max could be taken at ATM by keycard was $800 so $5000 a day had to be done over counter

· Fill out form and show ID card

· No computers so would be a diary note and placed on a/c file

· Teller required signature card and supervisor to approve and cross check

· Not noticeable if went to different branches and no red flag if purchasing a house for example.

· MB would have had old IDs as well

· Byron Comm bank busy 10 telllers

· In theory no limit to withdrawal as it was your money

· International transfer INT for lump sum (always called international transfer INT even if not O/s?)

· Netbank launched 1997

· INT only limited by amount in linked account

· Cash withdrawals? Suggests someone could have taken cash or transfers

· MB had Master Card account but this was with fraud team at bank due to stolen purse in 1994. Master card opened 1985 and closed April 2010

· David Martin Manager Colonial State Bank Ashmore in 1997. Knew MB to recognise. If she went to another branch she would have to produce ID

· If over $10,000 would give red flag that required cash transaction report designed to stop money laundering.

 

[Nnbee]

Commonwealth bank fraud by manager
GP Higgins used to work at Commonwealth Bank, Byron Bay branch at the time Marion disappeared (it's in my notes but can't find the source on exact dates he worked there).

He was not the manager at that time, as that person died in early 2019 and their name was never revealed (Inquest 2021).

However, he was definitely the assistant manager at Byron, at some point prior to 2001.

He eventually become bank manager and lead the South Tweed branch between 2001-02, where he defrauded an elderly and vulnerable customer of $80k. It was only discovered once the customer died and her will was being sorted. He was convicted of it in 2006 (The Daily Telegraph).

This is just an example of the fraudulent activity that was taking place, just 4 years after Marion disappeared.

oh wow I did not know this. Thank you for reposting. I always thought the bank accomplice was a far fetched theory but now, geez, nothing is off the table.