Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[gymtonic]

@Estelle @Peralta @Lord Peter Flimsy
It’s never made much sense to chose a Bank in Rye (from Australia) without some reason for that selection. I was doing a bit of a search on past posts on WS to see what discussions had come up previously and came across this one Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3
And this one Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3
They are from 2 years ago. I wasn’t a member at the time but I don’t remember this information being discussed recently. My notes say the Barclays, Mint street address was used as a reporting address for the Visa card and the CSB Ashmore (a which matches) and it does match with an article I read in a Sussex newspaper which said no-one is sure whether MB had opened a bank account in Rye. So has this been dismissed since? It’s just that it sheds a whole new light on this and it seems to have reported comments from SL.

 

[DK007]

The Le Courrier ad was placed in December '94. RB says no-one answered the ad ..... interestingly he goes overseas in late February '95, not sure for how long, and he apparently took a number of trips to Europe in '95.

interesting! Would be fantastic if his whereabouts could be established for the whole of 1995, Surely incoming passenger cards could piece together a timeline in 95 for RB…?

 

[DK007]

I need to read up about JF, sounds fascinating. Anything's possible about the ad. He had four trips to Europe in 1995, so something was going on IMO. There could also have been ads placed in European papers along with the Australian ones, might have been juggling a few responses? Speculation of course.

Regarding RB anything could’ve been possible??

 

[mishy66]

And this one Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3
They are from 2 years ago. I wasn’t a member at the time but I don’t remember this information being discussed recently.

wowsers especially this comment!

 

[Estelle]

@Estelle @Peralta @Lord Peter Flimsy
It’s never made much sense to chose a Bank in Rye (from Australia) without some reason for that selection. I was doing a bit of a search on past posts on WS to see what discussions had come up previously and came across this one Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3
And this one Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, Jun 1997 #3
They are from 2 years ago. I wasn’t a member at the time but I don’t remember this information being discussed recently. My notes say the Barclays, Mint street address was used as a reporting address for the Visa card and the CSB Ashmore (a which matches) and it does match with an article I read in a Sussex newspaper which said no-one is sure whether MB had opened a bank account in Rye. So has this been dismissed since? It’s just that it sheds a whole new light on this and it seems to have reported comments from SL.

What I noted from that link was this:
I think Marion may have had problems accessing her UK money. Her CBA accounts were in the name of Marion Barter but once she was in the UK her identification was in the name of Florabella. It's strange that she didnt redeem the money via the CBA when she came back to Australia. She was at a CBA branch every day for 3 weeks it wouldnt have been difficult to organize.

IMO the fact that MB's UK money was not accessed when she supposedly came back is a possible indication to me that she didn't come back. Those who accessed her money here probably didn't know about it.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Do we know that Westbury flew home from Heathrow? I don't think he did. I think he would have flown home from Amsterdam.

It seems unlikely he spent much time with MB in England according to her postcards and types of activities.

Maybe he bought one way tickets eg Brisbane to Tokyo in Westbury, Tokyo to Heathrow in Remakel, Amsterdam to Asia in Remakel, Asia to Brisbane in Westbury.

I think def out and into Australia as Westbury.... I think perhaps he did fly to UK mainly due to the 'suitcase' left at airport - it may be a huge coincidence and Marion flew alone and did that of her own accord...BUT it is a wonka thing to suggest that. So I do think he flew into the UK but most likely travelled from there on his ferry as per normal - I doubt he would fly into belgium on Remakel... BUT if he did fly to UK on Remakel name - what country is the passport held in?? Oh as usual when it comes to passports he hurts my head

 

[gymtonic]

I’ve also gone back to listen to Podcast Conversations 12 (around 47:50) and Podcast Inquest Part 1 (Graham Smith, CommBank Investigations Manager) testimony on accounts and I am satisfied that my previous notes reflect what he said at inquest. He confirmed that

• MB had CSB accounts (plural) prior to the merger with CommBank. (In the introduction to the episode AS says CSB accounts plural too)
• MB’s Visa Card was c/o Barclays Bank because of an arrangement with agent banks overseas and that Barclays Bank was a “recorded mailing address” for the Visa card and the CSB at Ashmore. But he then says to access “this money through Barclays” MB would have to have multiple elements of ID and this account was still accumulating fees and he closed it (also when he says “this money through Barclays” this is still confusing and unclear. What does he mean by this? I may need to go direct to the inquest rather than the reported podcast) any thoughts?
• That the CSB High Performance Cash account was opened in June 1997 and when he looked there was still over $14,000 remaining so he closed it and sent this to unclaimed funds. So to me this is the unclaimed money sitting in ASIC in now CommBank with Barclays Bank as last known address of the “owner”.

He doesn’t seem to talk about $20,000 in Barclays, so where has this notion of $20,000 come from? I can’t put my finger on that now.

The only other thought I’ve had was whether MB had loaded $20,000 on to her Visa card (which had the Barclays Bank as the recorded mailing address) to cover holiday expenses? I mean I have done that when I’ve gone O/S…instead of using your Visa and paying off the bill every month, the Visa is pre loaded and then you don’t have to worry about paying the monthly bill? Just a thought.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Somewhere to my understanding in the early days of the podcast Barclays I thought was mentioned that funds in there were untouched...and that MB had money there for travelling....now I'm totally confused. I have always thought there was money there?? The comments of two years ago are really interesting....have wires been crossed for years with the idea of money in Barclays when reality it was more about accessing her CBA funds from there - or travellers cheques?
As for the comment 'this money through barclays' well that still makes me think there was money there....??
I agree the $14k is from CBA in unclaimed monies from the account that was closed.
But the big Q is why have we all thought for a long time MB transferred funds to Barclays for use while she was there? I mean sure 1 or 2 of us may get confused but most of us have believed the same thing...so where did this info come from....?? scratching my head and will have to re-listen to some early TLV eps.

 

[mishy66]

Robert Frederick Blum - Wikipedia

He wouldn't surely!

 

[gymtonic]

Somewhere to my understanding in the early days of the podcast Barclays I thought was mentioned that funds in there were untouched...and that MB had money there for travelling....now I'm totally confused. I have always thought there was money there?? The comments of two years ago are really interesting....have wires been crossed for years with the idea of money in Barclays when reality it was more about accessing her CBA funds from there - or travellers cheques?
As for the comment 'this money through barclays' well that still makes me think there was money there....??
I agree the $14k is from CBA in unclaimed monies from the account that was closed.
But the big Q is why have we all thought for a long time MB transferred funds to Barclays for use while she was there? I mean sure 1 or 2 of us may get confused but most of us have believed the same thing...so where did this info come from....?? scratching my head and will have to re-listen to some early TLV eps.

Do you mean CSB or CBA? Graham Smith makes no mention of MB having a CBA account (apart from the fact that the unclaimed moneys are now resting with CBA because of the merger and the fact that CSB no longer exists).

As for why there was the thought that there was $20,000 in Barclays…could it have been that SL, earlier than the Conversations 12 Episode, had said that? It seemed to me that when SL was explaining the Barclays situation in the Conversations 12, it was like she was correcting earlier thoughts or statements?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Do you mean CSB or CBA? Graham Smith makes no mention of MB having a CBA account (apart from the fact that the unclaimed moneys are now resting with CBA because of the merger and the fact that CSB no longer exists).

As for why there was the thought that there was $20,000 in Barclays…could it have been that SL, earlier than the Conversations 12 Episode, had said that? It seemed to me that when SL was explaining the Barclays situation in the Conversations 12, it was like she was correcting earlier thoughts or statements?

Oh this banking stuff is so confusing. I meant CBA but admittedly forgetting about the merger. So technically the money is CSB that became CBA…? Am I understanding this?

this was a long time ago a post about Barclays from MPMB FB page Log into Facebook | Facebook

a small comment about Barclays BUT it doesn’t say 100% money went in there.. so maybe it never did

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

Rye is such a small sleepy town in East Sussex. The branch at The Mint doesn’t exist now but why didn’t she choose Barclays in the larger town of Tunbridge Wells where she was based at the beginning of her trip? I’m sure Mr aka visited Rye a number of times so the answer no doubt lies there.

 

[Jay_Tec]

Re Jennifer Fergate / Fairgate (was not her real name) murder in Oslo

I've read up on this case. To me, there are a few striking elements and things that I could interpret as similarities in MO.

Not least the possibility that 'JF' checked into an expensive room on a fake name hoping to meet up for a romantic liaison with someone she'd never met / barely met, using fake names, possibly suggested by him. It seems to me someone German who has been verbally told to use the name Jennifer Fairgate (British sounding name) could have mistake it for 'Fergate' which in my opinion is what she wrote. Seems she spent much time alone and for a while out of the room. At some point tried to call a phone number that transpired to be incorrect. Meantime, there was a mysterious Mr F across the corridor who seemed to know about her death 12 hours before it happened and also possibly intercepted the last meal she ate in circumstances I can't quite fathom.

Whatever happened, in the course of a few days, whomsoever murdered her took all her documents, wallet, many personal effects, and a wheelie luggage case.

Since the police all over the world clearly do not care much to investigate the deaths of, or disappearance of, women who may or may not be in the range of hopeless romantics to prostitutes, arranging to meet a woman for romance and then stealing all her documentation and personal effects, then leaving her dead, is quite an effective industry for con artists ?

JF had unusual dental work. Is it possible that a romance scammer, pretending to be wealthy, could send a victim to their dentist friend who undertakes significant dental work ? Charging a lot of money of course, more fleecing. And creating a body who can no longer be identified by dental records ?

 

[ruby925]

Re Jennifer Fergate / Fairgate (was not her real name) murder in Oslo

I've read up on this case. To me, there are a few striking elements and things that I could interpret as similarities in MO.

Not least the possibility that 'JF' checked into an expensive room on a fake name hoping to meet up for a romantic liaison with someone she'd never met / barely met, using fake names, possibly suggested by him. It seems to me someone German who has been verbally told to use the name Jennifer Fairgate (British sounding name) could have mistake it for 'Fergate' which in my opinion is what she wrote. Seems she spent much time alone and for a while out of the room. At some point tried to call a phone number that transpired to be incorrect. Meantime, there was a mysterious Mr F across the corridor who seemed to know about her death 12 hours before it happened and also possibly intercepted the last meal she ate in circumstances I can't quite fathom.

Whatever happened, in the course of a few days, whomsoever murdered her took all her documents, wallet, many personal effects, and a wheelie luggage case.

Since the police all over the world clearly do not care much to investigate the deaths of, or disappearance of, women who may or may not be in the range of hopeless romantics to prostitutes, arranging to meet a woman for romance and then stealing all her documentation and personal effects, then leaving her dead, is quite an effective industry for con artists ?

JF had unusual dental work. Is it possible that a romance scammer, pretending to be wealthy, could send a victim to their dentist friend who undertakes significant dental work ? Charging a lot of money of course, more fleecing. And creating a body who can no longer be identified by dental records ?

Can't believe this was considered a suicide and the room cleared, bedclothes destroyed etc just a few hours after discovering the body. Initially she booked a room for one, then it was changed to two so more bedding etc supplied. But also, no underwear, trousers or anything similar that may have revealed a male DNA profile was found in the room...why wasn't that a big red flag?

 

[Jay_Tec]

Can't believe this was considered a suicide and the room cleared, bedclothes destroyed etc just a few hours after discovering the body. Initially she booked a room for one, then it was changed to two so more bedding etc supplied. But also, no underwear, trousers or anything similar that may have revealed a male DNA profile was found in the room...why wasn't that a big red flag?

Agree. I'm not really able to join in with suicide discussions as for me that's a complete non starter. Along with her being an assassin or murdered by mossad.

After reading enough cases on this site, I conclude that police all around the world fail to follow up cases that involve missing or murdered women within the first week or so when it would be most important to do so. They are also super happy to buy into bizarre theories involving 'she just up and left' / ran off with another man / or maybe she was working as a secret russian agent...

 

[KiwiNZ]

[QUOTE="

IMO the fact that MB's UK money was not accessed when she supposedly came back is a possible indication to me that she didn't come back. Those who accessed her money here probably didn't know about it.[/QUOTE]

Or she thought she was going back to the UK and could access or use it then ? just a thought

 

[KiwiNZ]

Can't believe this was considered a suicide and the room cleared, bedclothes destroyed etc just a few hours after discovering the body. Initially she booked a room for one, then it was changed to two so more bedding etc supplied. But also, no underwear, trousers or anything similar that may have revealed a male DNA profile was found in the room...why wasn't that a big red flag?

The only thing that brings me back to suicide is, why would a murder shoot someone when someone knocked on the room door and there was no other exist ? maybe really bad timing for the murderer ? Also a real shame the hotel staff didn't stay at the door longer to see if anyone left the room.

even if it was suicide I still don't think this was a lone situation, something was really off.

 

[Jay_Tec]

The only thing that brings me back to suicide is, why would a murder shoot someone when someone knocked on the room door and there was no other exist ? maybe really bad timing for the murderer ? Also a real shame the hotel staff didn't stay at the door longer to see if anyone left the room.

even if it was suicide I still don't think this was a lone situation, something was really off.

Yup as far as any of that goes, we literally don't know that any of it really happened.

However, since we are discussing con artists and the lies they tell, it did strike me that perhaps the murderer knew the gig was up once the messages to discuss payment with the desk had been acknowledged?

If the shooter were in the room with the victim, pretending to have been a wealthy lothario, and yet here we have the main desk pestering for outstanding payment, time could have got all crunched and urgent. An imminent knock on the door from management / security demanding payment or a credit card would cause a deadline of sorts.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I am fascinated by the Fairgate / Fergate story have been for quite a while…..but I kinda think moderators will feel this is going off topic. As this is Missing Person MB forum..

Just mentioning this as I think this will potentially mean another ‘ please stay on topic’ post by moderators.

JMO

 

[gymtonic]

Oh this banking stuff is so confusing. I meant CBA but admittedly forgetting about the merger. So technically the money is CSB that became CBA…? Am I understanding this?

IMO…yes, that’s what I am going with at the moment based on what I can see in the evidence and until something compelling presented otherwise.