Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #11

[BonnieB]

Just a question for the legal minded sleuths...
If RB denies making the June 9th statement, can he be questioned on any of its content?

 

[Nnbee]

I don't think he will be able to deny the June 9th statement successfully. It would of been signed/witness by two police officers and probably done at the police station where there would be CCTV etc.


I wish there was some way we could find out when exactly he changed his name to Ric Blum.

 

[BonnieB]

I don't think he will be able to deny the June 9th statement successfully. It would of been signed/witness by two police officers and probably done at the police station where there would be CCTV etc.


I wish there was some way we could find out when exactly he changed his name to Ric Blum.

Ric Blum is an old alias dating from
Renov Pubs - R. Blum registered in Advertising and Marketing 10/1/1968 Belgium.

He's probably used it on and off unofficially for years. Not sure of the legal name change date but most sleuths seem to agree it was around the time of the podcast.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

The dispute over the statement dates

do you think its possible that RB after been approached by the police on the 8th of June, and then called the police himself on the 9th, gave a statement to the police with out DDH's knowledge, thinking he could talk his way out of this and make it all go away.

I get the feeling DDH first statement was in September, even thought the questioning around the date was a bit confusing during the inquest

Meaning he never fessed up to the original statement in June to his wife ? and I can imagine when he debriefed her after her inquest appearance the topic of the June statement came up, he has to keep on denying it because and now he is caught in yet another lie with her

I have:
8 June 2021 Police first contact at his house
9 June 2021 RB gave a signed statement to police at station (I think he just dropped it off)
14 Sep 2021 second police interaction, Ballina police station interview
Oct / Nov 21 at inquest, RB claims he was first contacted around this date

For 9 June, I have that he denied knowing Marion and having a FNR licence, but another sleuth said he only denied some of it then, and clarify when he denied what, but I can't find that now.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I believe the daughter lives in Federal.
I think that’s an old address

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Just a question for the legal minded sleuths...
If RB denies making the June 9th statement, can he be questioned on any of its content?

great question

 

[KiwiNZ]

I have:
8 June 2021 Police first contact at his house
9 June 2021 RB gave a signed statement to police at station (I think he just dropped it off)
14 Sep 2021 second police interaction, Ballina police station interview
Oct / Nov 21 at inquest, RB claims he was first contacted around this date

For 9 June, I have that he denied knowing Marion or having a FNR licence, but another sleuth said he only denied some of it then, and clarify when he denied what, but I can't find that now.

He eventually agreed the statement date was 14 Sep 2021 - not oct / Nov

My understanding was - he was visited by Police at his home ( in the hills as he said) on the 8th and denied all knowledge of Marion and FR, the following day he called police on the phone and they arranged a time for him to attend the police station on the 9th to make the statement or maybe drop of a statement (?) - ( I am not sure if he said he knew MB or not in this interview)

Both DDH and RB made statements on the 14th of September

My take is that DDH did not know RB made a statement on the 9th I think he hoped that would put the whole matter to bed and he could talk his way out of it and she would never know.

The reason I think this is, DDH made a comment that she asked him on the way home in the car after making the statements at the police station what all of this was about, not sure she got a straight answer .. but it seemed like this is the first time that it occurred to her that they were involved in "something"

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

FDDH appears to me to be his ‘clean’ name. Looking at the various alias’s and the passports relating to those names… the constant licence changes are IMO to obtain some ID in order to change his passport.

Not being able to access all outgoing passenger cards makes it difficult to run a time line of

Licence obtained to coincide with passport change and OS travel

then next licence obtained, next passport with OS travel.

I honestly believe the licences are merely to obtain the end goal of a new passport.

Trying to link them without having access to all travel is difficult and without access to other countries departure/arrival cards.

there’s a pattern there somewhere.. and it’s def IMO got to do with illegal monies/scams OS therefore needing a new passport for the next travel into that country… am I making sense??

It’s like the tinder swindler theory… using one persons cash to fund the next persons scam..

Using a licence to set up the next alias (with passport) to obtain $ OS.

I would bet there are other countries that have a particular alias wanted for whatever fraud or scam… of course, that alias isn’t a ‘real’ person so how do you find them? and god knows how many countries there’s been travel to…

he can legally have 2 passports 1 Australian and 1 Belgium… correct? So can we assume that he also has many identities in Belgium as well? With supporting documentation? Just like he does here?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Just checked Court Data Australia for all the aliases. I didn't pay so don't have access to all the details, but here's what came up:

RB x2 criminal (interesting!)
MCdH x1 criminal (interesting!)
DdH x1 civil (could relate to Coles unpaid staff wages, was a huge case at that time, but did she work?)

(might be the rugby player)
R West x15 criminal
R West x5 civil

(there were so many with this surname so who knows if it's RB, but at least we know the spelling is right)
Tony G x6 criminal
Anthony G x4 civil

FNMR x21 civil (assume it's NCAT, Inquest, etc)

 

[KiwiNZ]

sorry if someone has already done this - but while I am listening again ...

DDH testimony on where they have lived in order-

Mt Warren Park
Woodenbong
Glenbarra
Tasmania - Mid way point
Ballina (approx. 1996)
Wallanbah (approx. 1997)
Ballina
Sydney - Clare Valley (?)- with Daughter (approx. 2001)
Cessnock - near sister
Melbourne ( a few years with Son)
Miami - because son worked up there after Uni.
Suffolk Park NSW
Kurobell (? spelling)
Ballina

Other locations that were not given in chronological order
Bondi Junction - to look after daughters baby - lived with her and her first husband
Caringbah - with Daughter
Waterloo - with Daughter

 

[Deleted member 249471]

He eventually agreed the statement date was 14 Sep 2021 - not oct / Nov

My understanding was - he was visited by Police at his home ( in the hills as he said) on the 8th and denied all knowledge of Marion and FR, the following day he called police on the phone and they arranged a time for him to attend the police station on the 9th to make the statement or maybe drop of a statement (?) - ( I am not sure if he said he knew MB or not in this interview)

Both DDH and RB made statements on the 14th of September

My take is that DDH did not know RB made a statement on the 9th I think he hoped that would put the whole matter to bed and he could talk his way out of it and she would never know.

The reason I think this is, DDH made a comment that she asked him on the way home in the car after making the statements at the police station what all of this was about, not sure she got a straight answer .. but it seemed like this is the first time that it occurred to her that they were involved in "something"

Makes perfect sense

Just a question for the legal minded sleuths...
If RB denies making the June 9th statement, can he be questioned on any of its content?

I think if RB wants to properly deny his police statements, he'll have to take them to court or at least build a case to prove the police wrote the statements and forged his signature, or that he was overtly manipulated by police.

Same with his AVO with GGB that he tried to claim he didn't write or sign. I remember he had a chance to appeal yet he didn't.

RB can say all the words he wants, but if he doesn't take the steps to prove it, it means nothing. He can't simply take back signed statements.

It's the oldest trick in the book. And it's precisely why signed statements were created, lol. He's so silly.

I also think it's why he lost his lawyer. A lawyer can't knowingly lie in court. No lawyer is going to lie and say the statements were taken at a different time than the records show. No lawyer is going to perjure themselves to say police forged the statements. IMO.

 

[Liselle]

Charles Guyon - NAA
Item details for: A2562, 1969/7434

can’t access - but I don’t think this is him

Interesting, none the less, as his PERSONAL file is "Open with Exception", so some agency has censored part/s of it.

 

[Nnbee]

@Peralta Looking on the court data Australia website now, I noticed MCdH middle name is spelt Chuson. So many spelling variations! I can definitely be human error on the court side but this seems to happen a lot with this family.

 

[Liselle]

S

So there's an Arts Centre on the Gold Coast.

I thought RB's daughter lives at Miami and her parents are staying there now.

@Estelle Son has chiropractic clinic on GC.

 

[KiwiNZ]

Interesting, none the less, as this file is "Open with Exception", so some agency has censored part/s of it.

is it this one - page 759

View digital copy (naa.gov.au)

 

[Liselle]

Dec 1989 Willie Wouters by deed poll from FDH (Inquest day 7 4hrs 20mins) but FDH may be an error as in 1987 already had passport RLW, but I thought it was worth mentioning as AC questioned going back to the WW name of the past. .

@ruby925
Do you think this may have been a "questionable act" in light of the following "Change of Name Declaration" signed with the Registrar General 1976? -
"…lately called WW, do hereby absolutely renounce and abandon the use of my former name WW …all records, deeds, documents and other writings…..as well as in all dealings, transactions, matters and things whatsoever …use sign and subscribe ...FdeH in lieu of….WW…"

 

[MrsWattle]

sorry if someone has already done this - but while I am listening again ...

DDH testimony on where they have lived in order-

Mt Warren Park
Woodenbong
Glenbarra
Tasmania - Mid way point
Ballina (approx. 1996)
Wallanbah (approx. 1997)
Ballina
Sydney - Clare Valley (?)- with Daughter (approx. 2001)
Cessnock - near sister
Melbourne ( a few years with Son)
Miami - because son worked up there after Uni.
Suffolk Park NSW
Kurobell (? spelling)
Ballina

Other locations that were not given in chronological order
Bondi Junction - to look after daughters baby - lived with her and her first husband
Caringbah - with Daughter
Waterloo - with Daughter

Vaucluse, Wollongbar, Coorabell, built house in Goonellabah

 

[Liselle]

Just checked Court Data Australia for all the aliases. I didn't pay so don't have access to all the details, but here's what came up:

RB x2 criminal (interesting!)
MCdH x1 criminal (interesting!)
DdH x1 civil (could relate to Coles unpaid staff wages, was a huge case at that time, but did she work?)

(might be the rugby player)
R West x15 criminal
R West x5 civil

(there were so many with this surname so who knows if it's RB, but at least we know the spelling is right)
Tony G x6 criminal
Anthony G x4 civil

FNMR x21 civil (assume it's NCAT, Inquest, etc)

Unfortunately, the Criminal Records on this website only go back to 2012 and Civil Records back to 2017. So there could be sooooo much more!!!

 

[KiwiNZ]

sorry if someone has already done this - but while I am listening again ...

DDH testimony on where they have lived in order-

Mt Warren Park
Woodenbong
Glenbarra
Tasmania - Mid way point
Ballina (approx. 1996)
Wallanbah (approx. 1997)
Ballina
Sydney - Clare Valley (?)- with Daughter (approx. 2001)
Cessnock - near sister
Melbourne ( a few years with Son)
Miami - because son worked up there after Uni.
Suffolk Park NSW
Kurobell (? spelling)
Ballina

Other locations that were not given in chronological order
Bondi Junction - to look after daughters baby - lived with her and her first husband
Caringbah - with Daughter
Waterloo - with Daughter

Bought Land in Tambourine

Came back from Europe to Australia to eradicate (?) the land - - sometime between 1981-1983

 

[mishy66]

Also want to point out that he had a 2011 passport in the name of Willy David Coppenolle which WAS associated with a Commonwealth bank account.
I got that from the inquest. Does anyone have any more details on it?

IMO
This is the real wonka.
The illegitimate son of Marias brother and woman unknown- my thoughts are deH or brothers fiancee who went with him to the concentration camp. MOO