Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #12

[KiwiNZ]

OMG - it would explain his astonishing lapses of memory pre 1963, like his daughters name, his brother disowning him and his leg injuries from that other car accident (not the horse BS)

I thought his lapse in memory on his daughters name but not his sons could be that she had the same name as his daughter to DDH, just a wild thought, cause that would be awkward, or even worse Florabella because there is no way he has forgot her name, he has a very good memory

 

[mishy66]

Wouldn’t be a trip if RB is actually FD and the FD in the paper is WW.. meaning the person who died who would’ve been 24 was Willy Wouters. And it’s Freddy who has been impersonating everyone all the years and Willy! Haha sorry I thought I’d just throw out a ridiculous notion that actually fits into the rest of the ridiculous regarding Wonka Aka man of many names

I reckon anything is possible with this man!
WHO would have thought only a couple of yrs ago that there would be over 30 aliases found right!
I have to keep reminding myself he IS a conman, a liar and a thief. He has NO moral compass, no compassion for the people surrounding him on his life journey and TOTAL disregard for authority.
He is the ultimate player. I DONT put anything past him.


He came out to Australia in 1969 under the name WW - he was already 30 yrs old.
Given what has been uncovered prior to his arrival into Australia there is no way this person started out as WW at 30 years of age.

The ONLY birthdate we have to go on is what he uses on his passenger list in 1969 and all data on the NAA file.
The Gen Trees all have no birthdates, but they do have FDW as dead.

IMO JMO MOO

 

[BonnieB]

I reckon anything is possible with this man!
WHO would have thought only a couple of yrs ago that there would be over 30 aliases found right!
I have to keep reminding myself he IS a conman, a liar and a thief. He has NO moral compass, no compassion for the people surrounding him on his life journey and TOTAL disregard for authority.
He is the ultimate player. I DONT put anything past him.


He came out to Australia in 1969 under the name WW - he was already 30 yrs old.
Given what has been uncovered prior to his arrival into Australia there is no way this person started out as WW at 30 years of age.

The ONLY birthdate we have to go on is what he uses on his passenger list in 1969 and all data on the NAA file.
The Gen Trees all have no birthdates, but they do have FDW as dead.

IMO JMO MOO

The only reason I can see for him to do it would be the compensation payout from the Gendarmerie but could he have pulled it off?
Possibly, if WW was using a fake DLicence in FD's name because he hadn't been cleared to drive after the horse accident. Then, if FD was the one who identified the body. I guess, knowing what we know now, he possibly could get away with it.
The only one who would know for sure is DD and he's having no part of him!

 

[Carovb5]

The only reason I can see for him to do it would be the compensation payout from the Gendarmerie but could he have pulled it off?
Possibly, if WW was using a fake DLicence in FD's name because he hadn't been cleared to drive after the horse accident. Then, if FD was the one who identified the body. I guess, knowing what we know now, he possibly could get away with it.

But that would mean he would have to convince his family to collaborate…
- otherwise one is dead & one is missing
- otherwise he wouldn’t show himself anymore in and around Belgium (as he has the whole world as his playground)
- their friends would have to collaborate
- aren’t Jewish people very dedicated to bury their loved ones with dignity & respect? (My knowledge of the Jewish habits isn’t that good)
…

But then… newspapers print mistakes… sometimes they’re too quick or rely to much on hearsay,… back in those days there was less to check their news (no internet, not much other newspapers, …) maybe he wasn’t dead, just hurt very badly (maybe his legs?) and bystanders thought he was dead? or… if we look at his jobinterests later on (renov pubs,…) maybe he already had friends at the newspaper or at some sort of schooling regarding publishing?

Just thinking out loud

 

[BonnieB]

But that would mean he would have to convince his family to collaborate…
- otherwise one is dead & one is missing
- otherwise he wouldn’t show himself anymore in and around Belgium (as he has the whole world as his playground)
- their friends would have to collaborate
- aren’t Jewish people very dedicated to bury their loved ones with dignity & respect? (My knowledge of the Jewish habits isn’t that good)
…

But then… newspapers print mistakes… sometimes they’re too quick or rely to much on hearsay,… back in those days there was less to check their news (no internet, not much other newspapers, …) maybe he wasn’t dead, just hurt very badly (maybe his legs?) and bystanders thought he was dead? or… if we look at his jobinterests later on (renov pubs,…) maybe he already had friends at the newspaper or at some sort of schooling regarding publishing?

Just thinking out loud

TBH, I think he would need to be Houdini to pull it off and as you say, his family would need to be complicit. Personally, I think he is William ?????? (whatever his mother's name was) then he became Coppenolle in the orphanage, then Wouters at age 12. I think during their teens both he and FD alternated between names when it suited them (they were both petty criminals). I'm still not completely sold on the idea FD died in 1963 mainly because of the jail sentence in 1968.

 

[mishy66]

TBH, I think he would need to be Houdini to pull it off and as you say, his family would need to be complicit. Personally, I think he is William ?????? (whatever his mother's name was) then he became Coppenolle in the orphanage, then Wouters at age 12. I think during their teens both he and FD alternated between names when it suited them (they were both petty criminals). I'm still not completely sold on the idea FD died in 1963 mainly because of the jail sentence in 1968.

It makes sense doesnt it with that theory.
We need to find FD actual death notice and so far that has eluded me.
We need @Carovb5 to search it out in Belgium!

 

[mishy66]

1968 – Oct 1 Business Company formed FdeH, Willy David C and RB
Renov Pubs


Already using these names prior to him arriving into Aust 1969 UNDER the name WW.....

 

[BonnieB]

1968 – Oct 1 Business Company formed FdeH, Willy David C and RB
Renov Pubs


Already using these names prior to him arriving into Aust 1969 UNDER the name WW.....

Yep, the scams are definitely historical
1968 RIC BLUM was registered in Advertising and Marketing
The only marketing he ever did was to sell whatever lies and scams he dreamed up.

 

[Carovb5]

It makes sense doesnt it with that theory.
We need to find FD actual death notice and so far that has eluded me.
We need @Carovb5 to search it out in Belgium!

doing my best! These things are pretty new to me, so i can use any tips you guys have!

 

[BonnieB]

Does anyone have Abel Wouters date of death?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I can’t get past Mrs Wonkas comment of brothers/cousins… she mentioned Fredy as being alive. And it wasn’t her normal slow I’ll avoid and mumble (she’s not the greatest at pulling off a lie… I just called him Ric being an example of that) she didn’t hesitate at all.. so I’m not 100% on fredy dead either.
I don’t recall Wonka saying he died early?
Family tress I don’t completely trust one had WW as female..

 

[Carovb5]

Question regarding the articles found and mentioned by @mishy66

- Freddy David - Tournai - 7 june 1942 - 12 month prison
- Freddy David - Mons/Wasmuel - april 1963 - dies in car crash - 24years of age

Can someone explain to me how you guys see this happening?
Do you have proof one of these freddy’s is the brother of Mr Aka? Or just the name matching?
A 3yo in jail is a bit too crazy for me

 

[Untangle]

1968 – Oct 1 Business Company formed FdeH, Willy David C and RB
Renov Pubs

Already using these names prior to him arriving into Aust 1969 UNDER the name WW.....

How do we know all those three names were listed with Renov Pubs from the beginning in 1968?
Isn't it possible he has updated the online business info (including the names) in recent years?

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I agree

Can someone explain to me how you guys see this happening?
Do you have proof one of these freddy’s is the brother of Mr Aka? Or just the name matching?
A 3yo in jail is a bit too crazy for me

 

[Meligator]

Exactly! IMO he introduced himself to the Walkers as FREDY DAVID (the passport he was using at the time) DW preferred Rick (the frog thing). Then when he returned to Australia (on no-one knows what passport) he had to continue the Fredy David name so he changed it to FREDERICK DAVID de Hedervary (probably making up some BS story about the deH part) The Walkers probably knew nothing about his Wonka name until later (if ever). They probably had no idea their daughter was writing to him in a gaol cell either. The fact that the marriage took place at the Wayside Chapel says it all IMO.

DdH must have bee. addressing letters to WW, while he was in prison. Prison wouldn’t have known him as Freddy David. She had to have known the WW name by at least then.

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Question regarding the articles found and mentioned by @mishy66

- Freddy David - Tournai - 7 june 1942 - 12 month prison
- Freddy David - Mons/Wasmuel - april 1963 - dies in car crash - 24years of age

Can someone explain to me how you guys see this happening?
Do you have proof one of these freddy’s is the brother of Mr Aka? Or just the name matching?
A 3yo in jail is a bit too crazy for me

I think this is why unless there are death records with further details there is no 100% certainty

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

Question regarding the articles found and mentioned by @mishy66

- Freddy David - Tournai - 7 june 1942 - 12 month prison
- Freddy David - Mons/Wasmuel - april 1963 - dies in car crash - 24years of age

Can someone explain to me how you guys see this happening?
Do you have proof one of these freddy’s is the brother of Mr Aka? Or just the name matching?
A 3yo in jail is a bit too crazy for me

The thing that is odd to me is the double D or single D in Freddy.

birth record has Fredy KBR - Belgicapress


the accident, court has Freddy

Passenger card on Chusan was Fredy

So for me..personally that is why I’m not certain the double D Freddy is the same person.

 

[CrossingToSafety]

Question regarding the articles found and mentioned by @mishy66

- Freddy David - Tournai - 7 june 1942 - 12 month prison
- Freddy David - Mons/Wasmuel - april 1963 - dies in car crash - 24years of age

Can someone explain to me how you guys see this happening?
Do you have proof one of these freddy’s is the brother of Mr Aka? Or just the name matching?
A 3yo in jail is a bit too crazy for me

I have that report of Freddy David being condemned to 12 months appearing on 15 Feb 1968 in Le Soir on page 4.
The reference of 7 June 1942 in Tounai is his birth date as I understand it! Not the date of the crimes.

Hope that helps

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

I have that report of Freddy David being condemned to 12 months appearing on 15 Feb 1968 in Le Soir on page 4.
The reference of 7 June 1942 in Tounai is his birth date as I understand it! Not the date of the crimes.

Hope that helps

Yes birthdate is the 1942 and name is Fredy

the others are all Freddy

 

[BabeBlues]

Yes birthdate is the 1942 and name is Fredy

the others are all Freddy

It is hard to confirm with the spelling of names being so difficult to determine back then with handwriting often being illegible, or people who couldn't write relied on others to spell their name correctly with very little cross checking done.

When I was recently looking for some historical information on my Nana I found her first name spelt 3 different ways (birth cert, 2 marriage certs and death cert) and also her middle name was spelt differently twice plus on her second marriage cert her first married name had been hyphenated to her middle name. It was so confusing.