Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #15

[HinterlandObserver]

Thought so. If you’re interested in more info on her case flick me a msg. Could definitely do with more eyes on it.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

Interesting you say she had an unknown boyfriend from Ballina because that was Ellens case also.

Are you sure you havent the 2 cases mixed up...

Edit!
Opps sorry I thought you were talking about Jennifer.
Yes Ellens background and her unknown boyfriend is well documented.


It is Jennifer I would be interested in finding out about.

Can you send me the info you have found in regards to the boyfriend.
Until I spoke with her friend I’d never seen a mention of him.

 

[mishy66]

I believe that MB's passport application showed a FNMR driving license as ID, there was speculation on the thread that RB's procured license was used. I seem to remember AC mentioning at the inquest that MB had changed her name on her driving license, but I can't give a date/time reference. Anyone?

Sally has confirmed Marion had the Passport and her own Licence in the name of FNMR.

The only two IDs she had in that name.
Everything else was in MB.

 

[mishy66]

Can you send me the info you have found in regards to the boyfriend.
Until I spoke with her friend I’d never seen a mention of him.

Only that it is mentioned on her missing persons stories that she had one that she kept secret to her friends.

 

[mishy66]

Can you send me the info you have found in regards to the boyfriend.
Until I spoke with her friend I’d never seen a mention of him.

Ellen WILSON

The missing persons FB page had the reference to her secret boyfriend I think or her WS page.
Cant remember which

 

[Martinie]

I’m working on her case still. I have located several previous addresses for her and guess what suburbs are on the list?
It’s possible.
Also one of her friends told me she had an unknown boyfriend who they hadn’t met… from west Ballina.
The police allegedly never followed it up.

SHUT THE FRONT DOOR!!! REALLY?? This might be a whole new side of RB just being uncovered! I always suspected that he could be way more dangerous than we believe, there's just no evidence because he burns it and "removes" the person... I reckon he only has a family to look like he wouldn't be the type to do these things and I hope they fully investigate that business he has. I bet that's how he moves a lot of the money he scams. I wonder what we'll learn if he is ever fully exposed.

 

[lrb66]

This case boils down to two stories that happened at the exact same time:

1. Marion’s passport returned to Australia. The passenger cards are in Marion’s handwriting. It suggests she returned and went missing in Australia.

2. Marion said she was calling from England and soon going to Amsterdam. Gifts and postcards in Marion’s handwriting continued arriving. It suggests she did NOT return but went missing in Europe.

They can’t both be true. One of these is fake. One of these was not Marion.

To me it’s clear that either way, the perpetrator used assistance. Either way, he couldn’t have done it alone.

We also know RB is a professional at forgery, bypassing immigration laws, and has a history of leaving women in one country while disappearing overseas with their money.

This means #2 is more likely and #1 is the fake.

However, there is no actual evidence of an accomplice now, or in the past.

But no evidence doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.

Yet the Crown can only use evidence and need to connect the dots in the most straightforward and direct manner.

They’ve chosen to give passenger cards and passport records more weight than phone call and postcards.

It doesn’t mean it’s the truth or full story. Casselden’s personal hunch may be the opposite but they have to put forward the most obvious and evident explanation and seeing as there’s no hard evidence of an accomplice, they have to go with Marion returning and dismissing the phone and postcards as delays and mishaps.

My opinion only.

I can’t image someone like Marion, whose classroom pictures showed a highly organised woman, ever losing or misplacing her Australian ATM card.
I can imagine a travel companion taking charge of her passport and other important documents though and insisting she fill in the bulk of her incoming passenger card. He followed similar patterns with JO although she refused to hand over her passport.
He would have had no reason to insist he held all her bankcards though as Marion would need access.
A master forger would have no trouble copying an international driver’s licence as this would be less scrutinised than a copy/forgery of a passport.
Patterns of behaviour seen in future done in past too?
Realise that it’s hard to make this finding in the coroner’s court
Postcards and phone calls from Marion in the UK, as you point out, do place Marion in Europe whilst she is busy withdrawing her funds in Australia.
They can be both technically correct if there is an imposter in Australia???

 

[Martinie]

Unfortunately, she looks like what might be his type (looking at Marion + the woman in the Lu furniture store pic),in the age range of woman we heard as a witness & she took off with possessions, what sounds familiar also. Who knows. Worth looking into

I wonder if the police bothered to finger print the items found in the park?

 

[Estelle]

I can't seem to quote Fastpiece's post #905.

But there are two postcards from Marion which mention her going to Amsterdam and she seems excited about it.

In yet another postcard, she mentions meeting a Dutch dentist and Mazz. Because MB mentions going to Winchester Cathedral, others have assumed she met them there. But it doesn't say that. IMO we cannot assume that MB met them there.

Because I predict that mentioning Amsterdam twice and the Dutch dentist, there could be some relevance to MB's fate.
It has been my theory for some time that RB has excited MB about the prospect of her visiting Amsterdam for the second time. He has probably told her that he will take her there. But he eventually tells her that he is too busy now or had had an accident, etc. to do that so he has asked his friend, the Dutch Dentist to accompany her as he will be visiting the UK with his friend, Mazz, later in July and RB tells MB that he has arranged an apartment in the south of England so that they can all be together to get to know each other before the trip. (one postcard was sent from Kent)

Marion cannot mention RB's friends to family on any postcards as she doesn't want them to know about RB (as he has instructed her) so she mentions Amsterdam and the Dutch dentist on three postcards so on her last postcard, she drops it in as if she just casually met them one day and that was it.

IMO MB was never informed that RB had flown back to Australia and he was the one who probably wrote the outgoing and incoming passenger cards forging her handwriting as he had collected them on a previous trip for this purpose. IMO he probably told MB that this was the story she had to tell on her outgoing passenger card so it was best for him to write it so she did what he said. He later booked the flight for Mazz and gave her the incoming passenger card to use so they would match both in handwriting and story.

It was then the Dutch dentist's job to give proof of life in England after RB flew back home by advising MB to phone Sally after RB left and writing the postcards stating in one she wouldn't be writing much as she'd be travelling which he posted later from Kent. His next job was to end MB's life and hide her body. I have also wondered whether this possible accomplice of RB's was the so-called travel agent he mentioned to JO.

Just trying to make possible connections between what we know. But IMO MB never got to go to Amsterdam. Her life ended in August, 1997.

 

[Getro callum]

I think the only way to follow up RB after the inquest is through financial illegality’s. Just from personal experience Im Australian but was able to leave the country on my Irish passport in 1999 and my Centrelink payments continued as per normal whilst I was away (you aren’t allowed to do this now). RB may have been continuing to get uninterrupted disability payments even though he was often out of the country. The department would have been none the wiser. The change of names may have been to include this reason.

 

[Getro callum]

I think the only way to follow up RB after the inquest is through financial illegality’s. Just from personal experience Im Australian but was able to leave the country on my Irish passport in 1999 and my Centrelink payments continued as per normal whilst I was away (you aren’t allowed to do this now). RB may have been continuing to get uninterrupted disability payments even though he was often out of the country. The department would have been none the wiser. The change of names may have been to include this reason.

It must be the specific Australian passport number attached to my Centrelink account as when I flew out on my Australian passport they were immediately stopped.. (around the same time)..

(I’m not a fraud ..just disorganised!!)

 

[Estelle]

I think the only way to follow up RB after the inquest is through financial illegality’s. Just from personal experience Im Australian but was able to leave the country on my Irish passport in 1999 and my Centrelink payments continued as per normal whilst I was away (you aren’t allowed to do this now). RB may have been continuing to get uninterrupted disability payments even though he was often out of the country. The department would have been none the wiser. The change of names may have been to include this reason.

I agree with you because time is of the essence due to his age. I am hoping he is charged as soon as possible (the next day after the inquest ends ideally) and he is arrested and charged for something - whatever they have enough evidence for - which will, if found guilty, put him in jail for the rest of his life!

 

[Getro callum]

I definitely think MB returned. I think there was a problem accessing money. RB may have been in control of it and did his ‘I was mugged’ thing again. It may have been too difficult to access her money with different IDs in the UK. Even when I was living there in 1999 it was an absolute nightmare with security etc and so much stricter than here in OZ. She may have flown home initially to get hold of it under RB instructions.

But I don’t believe the bank tellers testimony for second. Too many holes.

I think she passed away either accidentally or after a confrontation with RB. I think it’s easier to hide a body where you live, you are more familiar and comfortable with your surroundings. There is more you can control and you have more aids to assist. (ie vehicle, house, tools etc). Everything is harder when you are away from home.

 

[Liselle]

@Peralta "If the Coroner agrees with everything Casselden says, then there’s no dots connecting RB with Marion’s death and RB with Marion’s money."
I have wondered why MB (on returning to Australia) would bypass utilising banks in Brisbane and/or her usual and familiar branch in Ashmore (near Southport) on the Gold Coast to withdraw her savings? But instead, "someone" traveled 100kms south of Brisbane to use the Burleigh Heads bank, then approximately another 95kms to withdraw more money from Byron Bay branch in RB's "territory ". I don't recall MB having any prior or significant connection with this area apart from her acquaintance with RB. IMO, these are the dots connecting RB to MB's money. P.S. I greatly respect yours and @mishy66 insightful posts. Missing @BonnieB in this thread!

 

[Getro callum]

Do you guys think RB is of high intelligence? … I can’t make out if he is so sure he is ‘just a con man and not responsible for anyones murder’ or if he truly believes he is so supremely intelligent that no one could catch him anyway…no matter what he did…

Getting away with all this activity for so long would surely add to his confidence.

The only thing that makes me think he couldn’t have done something to MB is that there was no break in activities after MB. You would think after a struggle and possibly MBs demise he may have had a break from the deception. It appears however he was right back to work not long after ..scamming the other lady in 1998.

 

[Getro callum]

From personal experience when I returned home from overseas I would only go to previously attended/ local familiar bank branches etc. it’s something physiological I guess. If sally knew her mother never previously attended these branches that would be a different matter.

But it cannot be discounted that it wasn’t RB wife for part of these transactions.

 

[Martinie]

I definitely think MB returned. I think there was a problem accessing money. RB may have been in control of it and did his ‘I was mugged’ thing again. It may have been too difficult to access her money with different IDs in the UK. Even when I was living there in 1999 it was an absolute nightmare with security etc and so much stricter than here in OZ. She may have flown home initially to get hold of it under RB instructions.

But I don’t believe the bank tellers testimony for second. Too many holes.

I think she passed away either accidentally or after a confrontation with RB. I think it’s easier to hide a body where you live, you are more familiar and comfortable with your surroundings. There is more you can control and you have more aids to assist. (ie vehicle, house, tools etc). Everything is harder when you are away from home.

He lived all over the place and no doubt knew other dodgy people to help with certain things wherever he travelled. I believe he could have managed.

 

[Getro callum]

100% they knew so much.

I call BS on the downtrodden Di.
They moved every year or 2, kids in every comp going, travelled and lived in various countries, Uni fees, he travelling up to 5 times or more a year, so much more that cant be shared here because we cant sleuth family BUT ......you dont get to hang out with the rich and famous IF you dont come from wealth..... just saying....
IMO

Definitely co-conspirer..impossible to go years of changing names, shell businesses etc without knowing.. obviously not the mastermind though and I believe RB is so controlling he would not reveal everything to anyone else. And would not have revealed intimate relations to his wife either.

 

[Getro callum]

Definitely co-conspirer..impossible to go years of changing names, shell businesses etc without knowing.. obviously not the mastermind though and I believe RB is so controlling he would not reveal everything to anyone else. And would not have revealed intimate relations to his wife either.

Unfortunately RBs downfall/conviction could only be via Diane. Her whole life of influence and control by him will make this almost impossible for her to acknowledge/accept.

The children will never aid authorities. They have too much to loose. Reputation is everything in the age of social media.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

The only thing that makes me think he couldn’t have done something to MB is that there was no break in activities after MB

Except for never using Japan Airlines again. Even though he got "discounted airfares"
That's a tell in my mind.