Australia Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #9

[Estelle]

I am wondering after he arrived on the Chusan and stayed with DdH's family for 5-6 weeks, he claimed he went from Sydney to Noumea then to Paris, did he depart Australia on another ship named Caledonien Tahitien as an airfare would have been very expensive if even possible then.

The route then was:

Messageries Maritimes Return voyages: Sydney, Nouméa, Port Vila, Espiritu Santo, Papéeté, Tai-o-hae, Cristobal/Balboa, Fort-de-France, Funchal, Marseilles.

Maritime Timetable Images - Shipping in 1971
(I had often thought of travelling on it)

I suggest those of you who are keen to do searches, see what name he used to depart Australia then. It would have been about April, 1971 as he was arrested in Rouen on 1971-6-23 as WW which is 903 kms from Marseilles. He may not have stayed with her parents as long as 5-6 weeks.

Otherwise check departing flights in March?, April or May, 1971.

 

[Deleted member 249471]

He put Fredy David on that card.

Thank you I removed it now because it's on the main alias list.

 

[BonnieB]

Lol, he needed to be sick enough in Belgium to get compensation and a pension, but well enough to be given Aus residency, then sick enough again to earn an Aus disability pension.

Didn't the poor man mention that he suffered post-traumatic depression? I've heard that can happen when you overload your brain with aliases!

 

[Estelle]

Didn't the poor man mention that he suffered post-traumatic depression? I've heard that can happen when you overload your brain with aliases!

What a convincing liar he must have been all these years - even to authorities. It's incredible. How on earth did he get the pension for PSTD/depression and maintain it all these years as well as you can recover from it? I would never have thought you could get if for that as I've had it myself.

 

[centred]

Didn't the poor man mention that he suffered post-traumatic depression? I've heard that can happen when you overload your brain with aliases!

I am beginning to think he isn't any of them
I am also thinking he doesn't know who the hell he is either

 

[Deleted member 83851]

Nowhere Man…

 

[LouLouSleuth]

Do you have the exact date please? So this occurred in 1996. Most people don't lock their cars at. service stations while they go into pay. I guess the wallet (in a purse?) was stolen which had the Medicare card in it from the front seat. So Marion just took her credit card in to pay. For a person to be able to steal Marion's wallet there, they would have to have been in the car behind her or in the other row. I can't imagine a person walking the streets running in to steal something from a car.

This makes me wonder (if it was DdH as she looked like Marion according to Sally) whether she was following Marion in her car so followed her in her car into the service station. As Marion had never seen DdH, she would not have been able to identify her. But if the service station had CCTV, you would have hoped that they would have seen the Reg No of the car. So if they did, I can only guess that the name and address used on the Registration was fake as police could not locate this person.
So RB and DdH now have Marion's name and address as well as we usually have that on some document in our wallets. What about Marion's driver's licence?

Is this the incident that Casselden is referring to which happened in 1996 and was the reason for their move?

Is this how DdH and RB came to know of Marion? Or were they already surveilling her?

Have police been able to connect this now?

Many questions and no answers. This was simply my attempt to understand what might have happened. IMO

What's your theory?

Maybe old mate was with her at the petrol station? Claims he got out for a minute, comes back and purse is missing?

 

[mishy66]

I thought this was interesting in the timeline that I have been working on (screenshot attached). Potential connection between criminal activity and injuries and overlap between what WW lists on application and claim of meeting with MB in Switzerland. let me know if you think I am overlooking some more reasonable explanation
View attachment 334485

wow this is fascinating @gymtonic
I look at this laid out like that and the first thing I think of, he has had a Master Teacher.
Someone has taken him under their wing and shown him this life of swindling !

 

[BonnieB]

RE: Incoming cards. Is it a coincidence that both DW and FD both have the same habit of dotting upper case letter 'I' or was DW already performing secretarial work?

 

[Deleted member 249471]

Hey so, this was my to do list regarding the secondary alias list:

• find the bit in the inquest video where Casselden lists off all the aliases
• post the timestamp so anyone can re-listen
• there's at least two names missing from my list and a couple of surnames
• listen for the pronunciations and adjust spellings
• google search the names to see if spellings are on the right track
• check names on Trove for spellings and to see if anything comes up

However, I'm not going to be able to drop by for a week.
So if anyone else want to have a go at it... by all means
Pretty sure you all will have cracked the case by the time I get back!

 

[mishy66]

I have just noticed that WW's medical exam for application for residency in 1969 states "fractures to tibia and fibulae in 1960 after fall from horse, operated on and healed well without deformity". So this does not fit with recovering in Switzerland in 1968 and meeting Marion?

There is one thing they got wrong on this form though!
Heart - normal

 

[BonnieB]

wow this is fascinating @gymtonic
I look at this laid out like that and the first thing I think of, he has had a Master Teacher.
Someone has taken him under their wing and shown him this life of swindling !

No wonder he's needed a secretary all these years! Perhaps that's why all the questions about a computer. IMO she'd need to keep XL spreadsheets to keep track

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Missed a bit recently, but do his fingerprints exist anywhere.

What an enigma this man of who knows where is.

 

[mishy66]

Also the following are all aliases listed as used by him in his criminal activities in the 70s (along with Roger Lauzone)

Bernard Du Pont (?)
Christopher Du Pont (the way this is written on the list in NAA it could mean that the alias discovered was Bernard Christopher Du Pont?)
Tony Greca (?)
Christopher Stein (?)
??? Wilson (is this the Wilson Bross International Exports Pty LTD mentioned in the forgery?)
??? Fleming (?)

One man. So many names. How DOES he keep up with it as he showed at the inquest he was flat out remembering what his sons name was to their marriage!
He must have a great secretary?? ! maybe.

 

[gymtonic]

I'm looking at the timeline again (screenshot) and have a hunch that maybe RB came back into Australia in the 1974-76 period using the Fredy David alias again. In 1980 Authorities were looking and found nothing under FdH, WW or RL. Worth checking for FD?

 

[Eyespywithmylittleeye]

No deformity! Then he applies for an invalid pension in both Belgium and Australia so how did he get those?

Perhaps they consider being a con artist a deformity cos I certainly do!

 

[Pineconemind]

Maybe the entry has been added incorrectly as often happens with Genealogy ?

Yes probably just a mistake! For a minute there I thought, goodness the whole family changed their name.

 

[Pineconemind]

This is what I also had come across, also there are a couple of Chusans registered to the canal waterways in UK, and from my understanding are live-aboard riverboats.

The port of registry on the second is BeauLieu in UK.

I'm still looking for more info too, lets see if we can uncover anything more.

 

[vivienbee]

I think she said he introduced himself as Freddy (Frederick) but she preferred to call him Rick because Freddy was a frog. He explained this as "He was using the Frederick de Hedervary name" but my head is spinning with names!

DDH didn't say that he introduced himself as Freddy/Frederick. She said that she always knew him as WW and just decided to call him Ric/Rick because she liked the name. It didn't make any sense whatsoever, and Casselden pressed her on this. I believe that he even asked her if he was already going by Frederick and she said no.
It was RB in his questioning that offered up the Freddy the frog explanation and completely undermined her story.

 

[gymtonic]

I am wondering after he arrived on the Chusan and stayed with DdH's family for 5-6 weeks, he claimed he went from Sydney to Noumea then to Paris, did he depart Australia on another ship named Caledonien Tahitien as an airfare would have been very expensive if even possible then.

The route then was:

Messageries Maritimes Return voyages: Sydney, Nouméa, Port Vila, Espiritu Santo, Papéeté, Tai-o-hae, Cristobal/Balboa, Fort-de-France, Funchal, Marseilles.

Maritime Timetable Images - Shipping in 1971
(I had often thought of travelling on it)

I suggest those of you who are keen to do searches, see what name he used to depart Australia then. It would have been about April, 1971 as he was arrested in Rouen on 1971-6-23 as WW which is 903 kms from Marseilles. He may not have stayed with her parents as long as 5-6 weeks.

Otherwise check departing flights in March?, April or May, 1971.

A possible flight route might be Sydney-New Zealand-Tahiti-LA-Paris.
I am a little familiar with flying to the French DOM-TOMs in the Pacific and I doubt that a flight to Paris would go via Nouvelle Caledonie. It’s not on really “on the way” to anywhere. On the otherhand I have done the route Syd-Tahiti via overnight stay in NZ.

EDIT: oh look what I just found- QANTAS Flight map 1969
Qantas routes, 1969