Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #16

[KathPlumber]

It is amazing what is being uncovered by you and so many other super sleuths @mishy66 , so many bizarre coincidences that can't all be actualyl "coincidences"

I agree, @mishy66 you are a wizard. I’m reeling at the A. Blum situation. How do these puzzle pieces fit?!

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Did anyone else see tonight’s post on MPMB FB re chemist charged with stealing $2m pharmaceutical benefit scheme?? Was it deleted? Why was it shared on that page?

I didn't see it on that site, but I did see it in the news sometime last year.

And I see it's in the news again today, that he paid back $1.9 million.

The man's name doesn't seem to be in the article today. I have no idea why someone would post it to the page.
I don't see the connection. Maybe that's why it was removed.

 

[VisitorDog]

What form did the fraud take? Did it involve using people’s identities?

 

[mishy66]

What form did the fraud take? Did it involve using people’s identities?

Pharmacist ordered to repay $2m in PBS fraud case - Australian Seniors News

A Brisbane pharmacist charged with defrauding the Commonwealth’s Pharmaceutical Benefit Scheme (PBS) has been ordered to repay nearly $2 million after the AFP-led Criminal Asset Confiscation Taskforce (CACT) restrained residential property, shares and cryptocurrency linked to the man. In...

australianseniorsnews.com.au

 

[KathPlumber]

Did anyone else see tonight’s post on MPMB FB re chemist charged with stealing $2m pharmaceutical benefit scheme?? Was it deleted? Why was it shared on that page?

(paywalled sorry)


… Shahin Ardalan, 43, had his assets restrained after the AFP-led Criminal Asset Confiscation Taskforce (CACT) took action under the Proceeds of Crime Act

Basically loads of fake prescriptions that doctors never said they wrote plus claims made for two people who died in 2016 and 2017
ETA link

 

[Liselle]

I listened again to the CC Submissions hearing (27 Oct) and tried to put myself in MB's "shoes". Has it been suggested that, besides being "lured" back to Australia to close her bank account/s, she may have wanted to "secretly surprise" her son for his birthday on the 18th of October? The consensus of Counsel Assisting and SL's attorney was that it was MB who returned to Australia, withdrew the money herself and then was not accounted for after Wednesday 15th of October, 1997. Perhaps on that day or the next, she informed Mr AKA of her plan to surprise her son for his birthday on Saturday 18th and ultimately the rest of her family, revealing her "marriage to FNR and going to live in Luxembourg to be a housewife", which could have precipitated her unfortunate demise.

 

[Housemartyn]

I've been thinking about this for ages. I guess it's just a personality thing..I don't know. I would never go into a bank and say 'I'm starting a new life I don't want anyone to know of my whereabouts' or 'I'm going to find myself in Bali' I just think this is a planted statement - which was made after numerous withdrawals from Marion's account - testing the water, seeing what would come out of it before going into the bank for the final withdrawal with Marion's ID documents.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I listened again to the CC Submissions hearing (27 Oct) and tried to put myself in MB's "shoes". Has it been suggested that, besides being "lured" back to Australia to close her bank account/s, she may have wanted to "secretly surprise" her son for his birthday on the 18th of October? The consensus of Counsel Assisting and SL's attorney was that it was MB who returned to Australia, withdrew the money herself and then was not accounted for after Wednesday 15th of October, 1997. Perhaps on that day or the next, she informed Mr AKA of her plan to surprise her son for his birthday on Saturday 18th and ultimately the rest of her family, revealing her "marriage to FNR and going to live in Luxembourg to be a housewife", which could have precipitated her unfortunate demise.

I like this idea-- since I've never heard it before. I like the part about MB choosing to return to Australia for a ball of reasons. To announce her new marriage (or plan to marry), Owen's Birthday, and to withdraw money toward her move to Luxembourg. Innocent enough for Marion, but a perfect storm for RB.

 

[Lord Peter Flimsy]

I listened again to the CC Submissions hearing (27 Oct) and tried to put myself in MB's "shoes". Has it been suggested that, besides being "lured" back to Australia to close her bank account/s, she may have wanted to "secretly surprise" her son for his birthday on the 18th of October? The consensus of Counsel Assisting and SL's attorney was that it was MB who returned to Australia, withdrew the money herself and then was not accounted for after Wednesday 15th of October, 1997. Perhaps on that day or the next, she informed Mr AKA of her plan to surprise her son for his birthday on Saturday 18th and ultimately the rest of her family, revealing her "marriage to FNR and going to live in Luxembourg to be a housewife", which could have precipitated her unfortunate demise.

I suppose one of the questions I would have is where was Marion in the period of over 10 weeks from her supposed return to Australia to the last large withdrawal from the Bank in the 15 Oct 1997?

From the other cases it appears as though Mr Aka liked to work quickly. If she was ‘married’ abroad would she think it strange if he kept disappearing on their return to Australia. She had sold her home and had no car so where was she residing in that period of return?

 

[VisitorDog]

I suppose one of the questions I would have is where was Marion in the period of over 10 weeks from her supposed return to Australia to the last large withdrawal from the Bank in the 15 Oct 1997?

From the other cases it appears as though Mr Aka liked to work quickly. If she was ‘married’ abroad would she think it strange if he kept disappearing on their return to Australia. She had sold her home and had no car so where was she residing in that period of return?

This is an interesting thought. I wonder what her patterns were before all of this, how would people pay for things in Australia in 97 - would they use credit cards? Assuming even if she did and it was her removing the money then she had a lot of cash anyway, could you pay for hotels in cash then? Even if you could, that’s a long time to stay in a hotel, another instance of it being probably just too long ago for someone to remember a long term guest. But I wonder if hotels in the areas of the withdrawals were ever investigated?

 

[Housemartyn]

I suppose one of the questions I would have is where was Marion in the period of over 10 weeks from her supposed return to Australia to the last large withdrawal from the Bank in the 15 Oct 1997?

From the other cases it appears as though Mr Aka liked to work quickly. If she was ‘married’ abroad would she think it strange if he kept disappearing on their return to Australia. She had sold her home and had no car so where was she residing in that period of return?

I think she was murdered shortly after she arrived back from the UK. I don't think she ever withdrew any money from her bank account. I think the bank tellers were told she didn't have a bank card, was waiting for it to arrive - only had ID. But it wasn't Marion. Marion didn't tell the bank teller she didn't want her whereabouts known. That she was starting a new life in Bali. Somebody did. I think it was DDeH. She's a cold woman. Entwined in her husband's deceitful ways.

 

[VisitorDog]

I too lean towards it not being Marion. But I think, if it were, then where she was in those ten weeks is also interesting.

 

[Housemartyn]

I too lean towards it not being Marion. But I think, if it were, then where she was in those ten weeks is also interesting.

I think she was already dead. Murdered. It's the only thing that makes sense.

 

[VisitorDog]

I think she was already dead. Murdered. It's the only thing that makes sense.

It sadly does seem the most logical.

 

[Liselle]

I suppose one of the questions I would have is where was Marion in the period of over 10 weeks from her supposed return to Australia to the last large withdrawal from the Bank in the 15 Oct 1997?

From the other cases it appears as though Mr Aka liked to work quickly. If she was ‘married’ abroad would she think it strange if he kept disappearing on their return to Australia. She had sold her home and had no car so where was she residing in that period of return?

I suppose one of the questions I would have is where was Marion in the period of over 10 weeks from her supposed return to Australia to the last large withdrawal from the Bank in the 15 Oct 1997?

From the other cases it appears as though Mr Aka liked to work quickly. If she was ‘married’ abroad would she think it strange if he kept disappearing on their return to Australia. She had sold her home and had no car so where was she residing in that period of return?

My thought has always been that it wasn't MB who withdrew the money, but legal counsel does not agree with this premise and in their final submission to the CC, state it was her, so I'm working around their finding. On MB's arrival card, she wrote that she would be staying at the Novotel Brisbane, which is where she may have remained for some of those unaccountable days. As RB arrived back in Brisbane before MB, it is feasible he may have booked this hotel under one of his many aliases, using one of his many passports/driver’s licenses/I.D's. Then, if anyone checked, they would have been looking for a booking under the names of Remakel or Barter, not Westbury, etc. RB could have spun some C&B story to MB in order to allow him to travel home for some of that time, so as not to cause suspicion to DDeH. Then RB could have met MB back at the Novotel, checked out and driven (maybe even using the family car!) with her to Byron Bay, again booking accommodation under an alias. IMO, M.B's demise possibly followed the revelation that she was going to surprise her son on his birthday, tell of her marriage to FNR and their imminent return to live in Luxembourg. I would/could NEVER believe that MB intentionally "lied" to her family, but was coerced for a considerable time to be "discreet" by the ever "fantasizing" RB. Additionally, it has never been established that MB had a return flight to Europe booked. All my opinion is just allegedly and MHO.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

My thought has always been that it wasn't MB who withdrew the money, but legal counsel does not agree with this premise and in their final submission to the CC, state it was her, so I'm working around their finding. On her arrival card, she wrote that she would be staying at the Novotel Brisbane, which is where she may remained for those unaccountable days. As RB arrived back in Brisbane before MB, he may have booked this hotel under one of his many aliases, using one of his many passports/driver’s licences. Then, if anyone checked, they would have been looking for a booking under the names of Remakel or Barter, not Westbury, etc. RB could have spun some C&B story to MB in order to allow him to travel home for some of that time, so as not to cause suspicion to DDeH. Then RB could have met MB back at the Novotel, checked out and driven (maybe even using the family car!) with her to Byron Bay, again booking accommodation under an alias. It has never been established that MB had a return flight booked so IMO, her demise may have been pre-planned or the revelation she was going to surprise her son on his birthday.

Personally I’m not convinced Marion returned or took the money from her account. However, as you say, if this is the finding we work to, I imagine any one false move from Marion would have resulted in her swift demise.

The very need for her to return at all ~ that her money was in an account in her ‘real’ name and therefore inaccessible to her (and by default also to RB as he probably wouldn’t have had sufficient documentation to swindle it without Marion’s old and new identity papers simultaneously presented) ~ would have already likely been one extremely annoying issue for RB. A flaw in his plan and the money he was greedily expecting and heavily invested in (from his POV = time and effort grooming Marion + numerous expenses + a lot of arrangements with the house sale and packing up her stuff + the stress of all the risk of being seen together + extensive travel) started to slip away from him. I’m sure he’d have been on quite a short fuse indeed and finding it increasingly worrisome as to how to keep Marion compliant, obedient, invisible, isolated at all times as well as maintaining a charade of romance. Impossible. He didn’t achieve total control with several of the others we’ve heard about and IMO must have viewed Marion as a very loose cannon.

Most importantly, there’s literally no way he could have stepped back or quit the plan. In terms of game theory, it’s game that couldn’t be left to play itself out or be abandoned and he couldn’t quit ~ he was trapped in a scheme of his own making. There was only one way out. If Marion was to live, his other choices would have been 1) to come clean and confess; 2) completely disappear and never return. He probably felt there was no choice, because sociopath.

JMO MOO

 

[mishy66]

I listened again to the CC Submissions hearing (27 Oct) and tried to put myself in MB's "shoes". Has it been suggested that, besides being "lured" back to Australia to close her bank account/s, she may have wanted to "secretly surprise" her son for his birthday on the 18th of October? The consensus of Counsel Assisting and SL's attorney was that it was MB who returned to Australia, withdrew the money herself and then was not accounted for after Wednesday 15th of October, 1997. Perhaps on that day or the next, she informed Mr AKA of her plan to surprise her son for his birthday on Saturday 18th and ultimately the rest of her family, revealing her "marriage to FNR and going to live in Luxembourg to be a housewife", which could have precipitated her unfortunate demise.

My thought has always been that it wasn't MB who withdrew the money, but legal counsel does not agree with this premise and in their final submission to the CC, state it was her, so I'm working around their finding. On MB's arrival card, she wrote that she would be staying at the Novotel Brisbane, which is where she may have remained for some of those unaccountable days. As RB arrived back in Brisbane before MB, it is feasible he may have booked this hotel under one of his many aliases, using one of his many passports/driver’s licenses/I.D's. Then, if anyone checked, they would have been looking for a booking under the names of Remakel or Barter, not Westbury, etc. RB could have spun some C&B story to MB in order to allow him to travel home for some of that time, so as not to cause suspicion to DDeH. Then RB could have met MB back at the Novotel, checked out and driven (maybe even using the family car!) with her to Byron Bay, again booking accommodation under an alias. IMO, M.B's demise possibly followed the revelation that she was going to surprise her son on his birthday, tell of her marriage to FNR and their imminent return to live in Luxembourg. I would/could NEVER believe that MB intentionally "lied" to her family, but was coerced for a considerable time to be "discreet" by the ever "fantasizing" RB. Additionally, it has never been established that MB had a return flight to Europe booked. All my opinion is just allegedly and MHO.

THIS makes perfect sense!

I never believed she came home, there were just too many uncertainties surrounding WHY she wouldn't have seen her children, Owens birthday, how worried she was about Sally/ Thredbo incident which happened a couple of days prior to her passenger card coming in, her best friend who she was close to, but looking at it like you have, it fits and makes so much sense. You have convinced me she did come home.


I am just not sure he would have taken her to Byron Bay accomodation.
He wouldnt be risking his inlaws seeing him there with another woman IMO.

Maybe he took her to Iluka though....


Travelling on Westbury 1997

Marions RACQ insurance cancelled 7 August - over the phone

He changes his name to deH in the local phone book in October 1997 ( for the 1998 edition)

Nissan Bluebird - he says he sold it but it was still under his name in 1998

Buys the Magna 11 August 1997 - Diane says it was for M to drive - um, she was 16 at the time ( they are "pensioners" - what pensioner has spare cash to by a car a yr before needing it, given they already have one)

AC - You bought a car 11 Aug 1997 for $2000 and handed over to Dianne then eventually to the son – no family member help you to purchase that car?

RB: No I didn't have 2 cars.

AC - Tell me about the car you acquired 11 Aug of 1997

RB: No I didn't.


14 Oct 1997
FdH pays $13 from joint account for a safe custody envelope at Commonwealth Bank Ballina, which only he can access.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'm still not convinced that anyone except for RB had anything to do with Marion vanishing.

I believe she fell for him and was told the usual, don't tell your family.

Maybe some people are not the type of people who tell practical strangers, like bank staff personal things, but maybe Marion was just so excited about the whole thing that she felt she had to tell someone.

Maybe RB told her what to say at the bank

Setting her up to explain why she disappeared, except she didn't know that.

I believe she had no intention of never contacting her family again, and I think she thought she was going to come back as newly married to a wealthy man, and that they were going to live in a beautiful house in Luxembourg.

And this time it was going to be a marriage that lasted.

No more being called Marrying Marion


Or maybe it wasn't her at the bank.

I'm going to reserve my judgement til more comes to light.

 

[*juniper*]

I have always thought MB must have returned home because of the final phone call to Sally, which occurred after Mr AKA had returned to Australia. I have also thought that if MB was under real duress, then she would have disclosed this to Sally during the phone call, in the same way she told Sally about the difficulties she was having at The Southport School.

I believe that MB was still alive at the time of the eye examination on 13 August 1997. Surely an eye examination that measured visual acuity could not be faked by an imposter such as DdH? And an eye examination would also reveal the presence of the melanoma, which I also think would be hard to fake. Unfortunately the lack of followup at the time has allowed this vital information to be lost, so we will never be sure if it was MB at the Grafton optometrist.

And yes, I agree that MB was coached about what to say at the bank about a new life in Bali. Because withdrawing large sums of money in cash needs a backstory. JMO.

 

[Housemartyn]

But you actually wouldn't draw out a large amount of cash to go and start a new life would you? And if it was an electronic transfer you wouldn't feel you had to explain that. Why? It really makes no sense at all. RB could have held all her ID documents by then, old and new. Just like he took all the documents from JO.