Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #18

[mishy66]

Leave without pay or using long service leave is a possibility.

You only needed a Dr cert if it was over 3 days back then.

The children were usually added into same yr levels if teacher away back then, if no relief teacher found

Is it clear she was still teaching that week?

 

[gymtonic]

Leave without pay or using long service leave is a possibility.

You only needed a Dr cert if it was over 3 days back then.

The children were usually added into same yr levels if teacher away back then, if no relief teacher found

Is it clear she was still teaching that week?

In the state system, there were lots of conditions around Long Service Leave. It could only be taken as a block of weeks, with a minimum time and thus usually only granted for the equivalent of 1 term. It also had to be approved a long time in advance (AND could only be accessed after 7 years, May even have been 10 years back then …how many years had MB been teaching in Qld at that point? I think only since 1994 so not long enough to access LSL) This was to minimise the impact on students and the timetable and so that a long term supply teacher could be found.

Leave without pay didn’t really exist as such but there was extended compassionate leave for family/ carers reasons (but the reasons would have to be stated). Then if all other leave was exhausted and there was an stated emergency, it would be unpaid leave. Independent Schools award would be the same IMO.

Principals could actually ask for a medical certificate at any point, not just after 3 days (a which was a public service thing). Taking 2 sick leave days 2 days apart could also trigger the Principal to request a sick certificate if it seemed suspicious, i.e. if MB was at school in the intervening days and seemingly well. Even if the students could have been put together with another class (How many prep classes at TSS in 1997?) or the Teacher Aide looked after them, it probably would have drawn attention and the ire of other staff.

Overall, Principals would not be happy approving 2 days leave in a week as it would upset the students‘ routine, UNLESS it was deemed an emergency. Teachers were and still are self-regulating critics and would not want to be seen to be letting the students or other staff down.

Anyway…My main point was that this was a most unusual thing to do in the middle of a teaching block. According to the FB posts MB was teaching that term and thus should have been teaching that week. It just wasn’t done to take off for 2 days in a week or even the whole week without some questions being asked. So….maybe there were some school records to show whether emergency leave (and why) or sick leave was granted? May not exist now of course.

 

[gymtonic]

It's interesting- of course the offices would probably close at about 5pm, or even 4.30pm. The drive appears to be 1-1.5hrs now. I don't know how the roads have changed but we can imagine that it would take a bit longer and if she left after 3pm/3.30pm that would be getting into peak traffic.
My children sometimes have "special" classes where they finish they afternoon with a music or language class with a different teacher.
I wouldn't risk driving all that way to a possibly shut office.

Yes, IMO in 1997, the office business hours combined with the issues of driving from GC to Brissie would make it something you wouldn’t do after school hours. Plus the number of events on the Friday certainly suggest needing to take off for the whole day. Plus…up and back to Brisbane twice in one week And two days apart? If you are going to take the Friday off anyway, why not do the Deed Poll name change on the Friday as well? It doesn’t sound like MB had to wait a day to get the document approved or back by mail (would have taken longer than 1 day by mail anyway). It’s just odd IMO. Maybe she took the days off in between and was doing other secretive things?…even in Brisbane?

 

[Liselle]

Perhaps MB had been given "a few extraordinary and undisclosed days off" by the Principal due to the upsetting incident of "betrayal" at TSS as described by @KiwiNZ "According to the statement of Bronwen, Marion's sister, they were walking together on the beach and Marion told her about her resignation from TSS. She was upset and crying and said that someone has betrayed her at the school. She felt that the person should be reported." Perhaps the Principal chose not to report the incident, as she had resigned anyway and would not have to face the "perpetrator". OMO.

 

[mishy66]

Perhaps MB had been given "a few extraordinary and undisclosed days off" by the Principal due to the upsetting incident of "betrayal" at TSS as described by @KiwiNZ "According to the statement of Bronwen, Marion's sister, they were walking together on the beach and Marion told her about her resignation from TSS. She was upset and crying and said that someone has betrayed her at the school. She felt that the person should be reported." Perhaps the Principal chose not to report the incident, as she had resigned anyway and would not have to face the "perpetrator". OMO.

Agree. Leave taken for stress and dr visit perhaps....lets face it, Marion did lie to her family about what was happening in her life and her loyalty 'to do the right thing by school policy' would be her last thought given she was obviously distraught over what ever was happening at that school. Whether AKA was behind it or otherwise, she wasn't about to concern herself with school policies - she was already leaving SHORTLY anyway!

 

[KathPlumber]

Perhaps MB had been given "a few extraordinary and undisclosed days off" by the Principal due to the upsetting incident of "betrayal" at TSS as described by @KiwiNZ "According to the statement of Bronwen, Marion's sister, they were walking together on the beach and Marion told her about her resignation from TSS. She was upset and crying and said that someone has betrayed her at the school. She felt that the person should be reported." Perhaps the Principal chose not to report the incident, as she had resigned anyway and would not have to face the "perpetrator". OMO.

Yeah, I wondered if she’d asked for additional leave or even been “encouraged” onto a few days of stress leave. Because private schools employ their own staff (as opposed to state schools where the government is the employer) there are a lot more opportunities for flexibility around leave like this, and a lot less bureaucracy about it all. Source: family member specialised in unfair dismissal of teachers at VIEU (Victorian independent school union) at this exact time.

 

[mishy66]

Yeah, I wondered if she’d asked for additional leave or even been “encouraged” onto a few days of stress leave. Because private schools employ their own staff (as opposed to state schools where the government is the employer) there are a lot more opportunities for flexibility around leave like this, and a lot less bureaucracy about it all. Source: family member specialised in unfair dismissal of teachers at VIEU (Victorian independent school union) at this exact time.

Yes and while QLD has their own policies on leave etc, it is known that some school principals 'sort paperwork' in extreme circumstances IF need be, especially when the teacher has resigned anyway.

 

[KathPlumber]

There are a couple of threads to the story that feel underdeveloped given how potentially relevant they could be if they DO mean anything. One is the anecdote about Marion’s Wallet being stolen by “someone who looks like her”. I’ve always found this a rather fascinating comment and would love to know more precise info as the the info out there about it is scant and hard to put into a timeline.

The other things is that right back at the very start of the podcast, Sally mentions that she was told there were rumours about her mother “touching kids.” This rumour seems like such a potentially serious, damaging allegation and so utterly slanderous if untrue (which Sally was adamant it was) that it makes me wonder how or why on earth it was circulating.it’s not the kind of idle gossip you usually hear about teachers even at a bad workplace. Standard teacher shade is genuinely like “I’ve heard kids in her class have messy handwriting” or “she didn’t get her reports out to parents on time.” staff rooms don’t pass idle CSA remarks around. If it was true that these rumours existed it would have been absolutely devastating to Marion.

Was this the betrayal she was speaking about? Or was that about being pushed onto leave while she managed stress in her personal life? I think I saw someone speculate that maybe AKA was stirring up rumours?

I would also if I was Sally want to know who the heck told her those rumours and what they really meant.
ETA: JMO and I hope this comment is taken as respectfully as I intended it. I always thought it was a bit irresponsible to publish those words on the podcast without trying to unpack their origins and make it clear just how unfounded they were

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Who do we know who would think nothing of ruining someone's reputation by contacting their place of work and putting in a complaint...

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I

Who do we know who would think nothing of ruining someone's reputation by contacting their place of work and putting in a complaint...

can think of several names for one guy!

 

[mishy66]

I have been back taking a look at the real FR and the timespan of him, MC and AH and DdeH
Something very odd about that time and the businesses they ran.
FR was also a teacher! SO many teachers connected to this case going right back to the 60s.
I have to think there is some connection to AH and schools in some way because nearly every person connected to this was a teacher or worked in schools. Maybe he was a school photographer early on?

Getting back to the FR and AKA connections - FR has his business from late 70s to early 80s -
Haus - Maison - 38 avenue de la Gare, Esch/Alzette

He also deals in school books
JULY 1980 - Bookstore Fernand REMAKEL 36-38, avenue de la Gare ESCH-SUR-ALZETTE
takes his ANNUAL HOLIDAY from July 28 to August 16

He still has the business in 1981 as he is one of the contributors through his business for an International Symposium in Association Luxembourgeoise des Paramedicaux

https://repository.royalholloway.ac.uk/file/6acd7d35-7a55-424a-b208-984356f0d706/1/BC_AL_336_39_1.pdf

In 1980 AH is setting up his "furniture company" - imports from Yugoslavia - at Route de Kayl Noertzange Luxembourg - the newspaper clipping tells us it is ‘THROUGH THE STONE GATE TO LARGE SCALE PARKING' - a search of this address and FR address shows they are about a 15 min drive from each other. Straight through Schifflange, where AH has another store....

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

2 companies / in the 80s/ connected through a stolen ID/ a lover / an ex wife / a love of football / teachers /missing woman. AND FR does not want to talk to the authorities about if he knew AH.

Of course he did.

<modsnip: Attachments removed due to no link to source>

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I have been back taking a look at the real FR and the timespan of him, MC and AH and DdeH
Something very odd about that time and the businesses they ran.
FR was also a teacher! SO many teachers connected to this case going right back to the 60s.
I have to think there is some connection to AH and schools in some way because nearly every person connected to this was a teacher or worked in schools. Maybe he was a school photographer early on?

Getting back to the FR and AKA connections - FR has his business from late 70s to early 80s -
Haus - Maison - 38 avenue de la Gare, Esch/Alzette

He also deals in school books
JULY 1980 - Bookstore Fernand REMAKEL 36-38, avenue de la Gare ESCH-SUR-ALZETTE
takes his ANNUAL HOLIDAY from July 28 to August 16

He still has the business in 1981 as he is one of the contributors through his business for an International Symposium in Association Luxembourgeoise des Paramedicaux

https://repository.royalholloway.ac.uk/file/6acd7d35-7a55-424a-b208-984356f0d706/1/BC_AL_336_39_1.pdf

In 1980 AH is setting up his "furniture company" - imports from Yugoslavia - at Route de Kayl Noertzange Luxembourg - the newspaper clipping tells us it is ‘THROUGH THE STONE GATE TO LARGE SCALE PARKING' - a search of this address and FR address shows they are about a 15 min drive from each other. Straight through Schifflange, where AH has another store....

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

2 companies / in the 80s/ connected through a stolen ID/ a lover / an ex wife / a love of football / teachers /missing woman. AND FR does not want to talk to the authorities about if he knew AH.

Of course he did.

Clearly laid out. Agree wholeheartedly and have believed it all along.

 

[brjakj]

<modsnip: No link to an approved source>

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/its-sickening-ric-blums-new-name-a-gift/news-story/5f68f60b61571e799bcd2a11d7abc3aa?amp=

<modsnip: Paywall copyright violation>

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Mr Zillig!!

 

[ruby925]

Mr Zillig!!

The unsuccessful legal name change..oh I do hope each of these events cumulatively lead to the truth about Marion.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

But wait, there's more...

There are many more names and each one will have some kind of a scam behind it.

In my opinion.

 

[mishy66]

I can imagine now a victim for every single name he used.
The amount of wealth he and his wife accumulated over the years, all the properties they owned, all the moving and trips overseas with victims or to victims.
THIS IS NO SMALL TIME CROOK

A lot of us have said this over the years. Now finally the reality of what and who he is, will paint a bigger picture for those who thought he was a small time crook.

NO. He is a monster.

DdeH it is time to own up.

 

[mishy66]

I am pretty sure it was @gymtonic that had this name pegged a while back.
It seems to be gone now - of course. Cant have WS sharing details first

from a post earlier which now seems to be gone.....
"Zabdiel Zillig ( spelling from J= my running theory is the Zilligs in Lismore, NSW )

 

[gymtonic]

I am pretty sure it was @gymtonic that had this name pegged a while back.
It seems to be gone now - of course. Cant have WS sharing details first

from a post earlier which now seems to be gone.....
"Zabdiel Zillig ( spelling from J= my running theory is the Zilligs in Lismore, NSW )

Yes, wayback I found the phone number for someone in California called Zabdiel Zwilling and passed it on as a tip and one of my earlier posts is still there…

The spelling I was looking for was Zwilling which is the German spelling and means (twin). The spelling in the story is different. A lot of people with non phonetic spellings change the family name over time…or the phone number in California was someone else….or AKA Changed the spelling? Who knows?

Post in thread 'Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13'
Australia - Australia - Marion Barter, 51, missing after trip to UK, June 1997 #13

 

[gymtonic]

I can imagine now a victim for every single name he used.
The amount of wealth he and his wife accumulated over the years, all the properties they owned, all the moving and trips overseas with victims or to victims.
THIS IS NO SMALL TIME CROOK

A lot of us have said this over the years. Now finally the reality of what and who he is, will paint a bigger picture for those who thought he was a small time crook.

NO. He is a monster.

DdeH it is time to own up.

They still do not appear to have lived much of a life of luxury equivalent to the gains. IMO it points perhaps to money laundering and gambling involvement. I return in my mind to the (maybe) Freudian slip of DdH at the inquest « He didn’t have any big wins [at that time]… »

The money trail, if ever discovered, will be interesting to say the least…