Australia Australia - Marion Barter - Missing After Trip to UK - June 1997 #22

[MrsEmmaPeel]

I'd appreciate it if anyone who feels they can will post their case for Marion returning / not returning based on all we know now. We have past posts on this, but it would be interesting to see where we stand. I used to think she DID return, but then the information about AKA leaving other women stranded made me reconsider -- until someone posted he may have learned from Marion to leave the later women stranded. So I guess I'm sort of back in the Returned camp. But I believe Marion surprised him. He did not count on her returning. Can't justify just believe it. So if you can present your case, please do!

 

[Baby baby Jane]

It’s really unclear. I’ve this week, decided-
MB did return I think on separate flight
She had been left alone to find ladies while RB went back to Oz saying been bashed. (He will need time to set up before she returns so he can convince her give him more cash for the school)

I think perhaps he thought she was bringing big cash with her, or that she organized to access thru Barclays. But instead she had only some thousands (he was holding). RB decides to get back to Oz to get more MB $$. He goes to “Amsterdam” and is bashed and calls her he needed to get treatment at home & departs. She gets later flight, maybe needs to retrieve bags somewhere or he put her on a train to see sights while he “worked”..
I am puzzled about the “married” status. Did he organize a fake? (Though declaring herself a housewife, as she had in the past, might have seemed more natural than retired or unemployed).
I think on her own, she had time to think and returning home with fresh eyes, suspicion, the burning embarrassment of RB behavior & quitting her job and there is a confrontation that ends badly for MB. Maybe she has seen one of his IDs. RB plan B - eliminate the witness & clear out her bank account

 

[KiwiNZ]

I'd appreciate it if anyone who feels they can will post their case for Marion returning / not returning based on all we know now. We have past posts on this, but it would be interesting to see where we stand. I used to think she DID return, but then the information about AKA leaving other women stranded made me reconsider -- until someone posted he may have learned from Marion to leave the later women stranded. So I guess I'm sort of back in the Returned camp. But I believe Marion surprised him. He did not count on her returning. Can't justify just believe it. So if you can present your case, please do!

I think if she did return the NOVOTEL is a indication, he knew she was coming back and had told her to stay there.

 

[KiwiNZ]

I find the NAA a bth to search, but maybe it's just me lol .. but wondering if we can find incoming passenger cards around the same time as Marion with correction on them to figure out if that is typical of customs / immigration to do ?

 

[KinseyFan]

I think her writing was forged on the return to Oz flight passenger card. I’ve always leaned towards it not being Marion who returned.
But then I remember the tall tales of being a special agent. If it WAS Marion who returned, he’d spun some lie with a sense of urgency and danger.
But I’m more in the ‘Marion did not return’ camp.

 

[mishy66]

I'd appreciate it if anyone who feels they can will post their case for Marion returning / not returning based on all we know now. We have past posts on this, but it would be interesting to see where we stand. I used to think she DID return, but then the information about AKA leaving other women stranded made me reconsider -- until someone posted he may have learned from Marion to leave the later women stranded. So I guess I'm sort of back in the Returned camp. But I believe Marion surprised him. He did not count on her returning. Can't justify just believe it. So if you can present your case, please do!

I think you know my views on this - she didnt return

 

[Kie22]

I think she returned but know I don't have enough information to judge either way.

My reasoning is based on what, I think, seems to have generally been agreed on so far during the inquest. The lawyers have seen a lot more undisclosed evidence including the original documents of her travel. I believe they've thought through various scenarios and this is the one that fits best, even if there are still a lot unanswered questions. Of course they could be making wrong assumptions....

As far as discrepancies in the docs go, I've travelled extensively internationally and have, on occasions, had officials barking questions about my passenger card info, crossing stuff out and changing it accordingly. Always makes me feel like a criminal!

If RB did fill out her passenger card in advance he could simply have told MB to use it to save time & questions at the border. He's taken charge of everything else so this wouldn't even have registered as strange.
If it was MB - people under stress make mistakes.

Total respect to everyone's opinion. I sincerely hope the findings will reveal the truth, whatever that may be.
JMO

 

[mishy66]

I think if she did return the NOVOTEL is a indication, he knew she was coming back and had told her to stay there.

The problem I have with this is, IF she felt she was being duped and flew home unannounced, why would she tell him she was at the hotel ? Wouldn't she contact her banks straight away and the police if she knew a rat was after her money and had her documents / personal details ?
Why would she call him and sit tight in a hotel for 8 days....

OR

IF she did fly home 2 days after he did, to get "money for her school she was buying" - (Incidentally I don't think this was ever on the cards - I think she mentioned how cheap schools were in general conversation on the postcard and it was HIM that padded it out at the inquest because he reads everything online ), WHY wait over 2 weeks to start withdrawing funds each day at 5K a pop when she could walk into her own bank an hour away from where she was staying OR use a bank in the City, and negotiate her term deposit account for ALL her money and then be on her way within the 8 day timeframe of her stay. She had time then to give him the money for the school and be on her way with him back to the fairytale he spun her.

There was NO return ticket so how was she going to get back to Lux to be a dutiful wife within the 8 days she had aligned for her stay?

If she didn't want her family to know she was back in Aust, how was she going to buy a return ticket to fairyland?

She knew Sallys wedding was coming up and hadn't seen her son and sisters for so long, her postcards indicate how much she loved them all - why hide out for nearly 3 weeks until the sting started..???

She would had to have left the Novotel on the 10th August.

She had been in Brisbane for 8 days doing what....and the day/ night of the 10th and the day of the 11th - depending what time he bough the car - where was she....

He buys a car on the 11 August - Monday - at Alstonville NSW . - IMO to use to get up and down the NSW and QLD coast to start with the sting because Diane has the family car running the kids around with swim meets.


Alstonville - just up the road from where they live and the dealer knew the family.
Alstonville NSW to Byron Bay NSW - half an hour
Byron Bay to Burleigh QLD - one hour

The funds start going out of her account on the 18 August - why wait until then for her to take her own money out>

18 August - the following MONDAY of car purchase - BBay NSW
3 days later he is on his way to Burleigh Heads QLD to withdraw more money - he must have stayed somewhere as he is back the next day withdrawing more money
Then the day after, he is back in BB NSW withdrawing money every day for a week

Then a long radio silence - October the last of the money

Her passport never left Aust again - either in her new name or her old name


JMO of course

 

[Baby baby Jane]

On her return, I don’t think it was clear he had stolen the money, more he was bashed & it was gone. Travel money was gone, he had gone home, and they were:
Not married
Not on the orient express
And she was ditched alone and lonely while he went home “for treatment from the “bashing” without her
When she was at Novotel, she was like a stranger in a strange land - no home, no car, prob some her documents stolen. Feeling alienated from her old life and family and it’s no longer this fun romantic secret. It’s starting to be very uncomfortable and confrontation is inevitable. The “charade” of them getting married, buying a school together and happily ever after luxury lifestyle was over.
But for RB, the big money will still the target.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don't know Marion and there are people who do, so it's hard to say her personality from the other side of the internet and the other side of the world. But Marion seemed to be a lovely, warm, friendly, trustworthy, and kind person.

She must have had at least one good friend in this world that she could have turned to for advice or guidance, in confidence, if the relationship with RB started to concern her? Also if she suspected foul play, she'd have locked down her finances or notified the bank at least (maybe she did?).

I don't believe M returned to Australia but I think if she did it's because she was being a loyal and romantic partner to her man. If he said he'd been beaten badly and mugged, she would want to be by his side type of thing. Not to confront him. She knew how tall and big he was. If he'd shown signs of being controlling or having a temper and she thought something was awry, she'd not be stupid enough to confront him alone in isolation surely? Also, had she gone to confront or surprise him in this manner, that would have left him with zero agency or control over the meeting place and time and date. That's how most murders are discovered - because the perp lost their temper and did what they did, unplanned.

JMO MOO

 

[lrb66]

I don’t think Marion returned
IMO- AKA spun a tale of urgency elsewhere and returned to Australia, unbeknownst to Marion, stealing all her money when he got here? He tried to take her money in the UK but possibly ran into a roadblock without her. Easier to spin a tale in Byron Bay.
He urged Marion to phone Sally, stating she wouldn’t be in contact for a while.
That’s him buying time to disappear Marion (he didn’t know about Owen’s birthday in mid October)
He sold Marion’s passport to someone desperately wanting to leave Europe, like he did years before. He already had their silence? 1997 is before e-passports. No doubt he had skills.
Perhaps he poisoned Marion before he left?
No identification ?
She was staying somewhere isolated and remote in Europe?
If ever found….
Jane Doe?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

I don’t think Marion returned
IMO- AKA spun a tale of urgency elsewhere and returned to Australia, unbeknownst to Marion, stealing all her money when he got here? He tried to take her money in the UK but possibly ran into a roadblock without her. Easier to spin a tale in Byron Bay.
He urged Marion to phone Sally, stating she wouldn’t be in contact for a while.
That’s him buying time to disappear Marion (he didn’t know about Owen’s birthday in mid October)
He sold Marion’s passport to someone desperately wanting to leave Europe, like he did years before. He already had their silence? 1997 is before e-passports. No doubt he had skills.
Perhaps he poisoned Marion before he left?
No identification ?
She was staying somewhere isolated and remote in Europe?
If ever found….
Jane Doe?

I agree with this - the day Marion rang Sally to say she wouldn't be in touch for a little while...that was it. She wasn't going into undercover let's go play detective mode, she was just doing as she'd been instructed by him. I don't suppose he wasted any time in making sure that was the last call she ever made, and one of the last things she ever did, however, he managed it.

JMO MOO

 

[KiwiNZ]

The problem I have with this is, IF she felt she was being duped and flew home unannounced, why would she tell him she was at the hotel ? Wouldn't she contact her banks straight away and the police if she knew a rat was after her money and had her documents / personal details ?
Why would she call him and sit tight in a hotel for 8 days....

I am assuming in this scenario she wasn't feeling duped, she was still in love and following his ridiculous ideas.

Not that I have bought into this scenario, I am still not sure what I think lol

 

[lrb66]

I am assuming in this scenario she wasn't feeling duped, she was still in love and following his ridiculous ideas.

Not that I have bought into this scenario, I am still not sure what I think lol

Yes
Still in love??
With a promise to return as planned??
IMO
Still a few loose ends but I can’t see him comfortable with all her close family and friends/contacts in Australia?
He likes to isolate

 

[KiwiNZ]

Yes
Still in love??
With a promise to return as planned??
IMO
Still a few loose ends but I can’t see him comfortable with all her close family and friends/contacts in Australia?
He likes to isolate

He did scam other women in Europe right under their family's nose. I think he try's his best to keep it on the down low but don't think he cares too much, getting to the money gazumps everything, whatever it takes. IMO

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

He urged Marion to phone Sally, stating she wouldn’t be in contact for a while.
That’s him buying time to disappear Marion (he didn’t know about Owen’s birthday in mid October)

For me, her call to Sally is telling. It has a very sad, almost wistful note to it. I heard it as Marion maybe following orders (maybe not) but letting Sal know in the barest detail that she won't hear from her for a while. If it wasn't going to be for a long while, Marion wouldn't have bothered. After all she's on a world trip and far away. If it was going to be for a LONG while, Marion may have felt the need to let Sal know. It also makes me think that Marion was herself unsure what this long absence was going to entail. As if AKA hadn't been totally forthcoming with her but had sketched something out about their future.

It also could have been Marion's subconscious knowing she was doomed.

@mishy66 in your theory of Marion being killed after AKA returned to Europe-- which I like -- do we have any proof he did return shortly from Australia? I need to reread your post.

 

[MrsEmmaPeel]

On the other hand, Marion may have told Sal she wouldn’t be in touch because MB was returning to Australia to confront or surprise AKA. She knew she couldn’t call Sal if she were “home.” And she had no idea what would happen after her return to Australian. The future was on hold.

And what if AKA felt threatened by MB’s surprise return and kills her? It then takes him weeks to work out how to withdraw the money or to work up the nerve to go through with it.

 

[lrb66]

On the other hand, Marion may have told Sal she wouldn’t be in touch because MB was returning to Australia to confront or surprise AKA. She knew she couldn’t call Sal if she were “home.” And she had no idea what would happen after her return to Australian. The future was on hold.

And what if AKA felt threatened by MB’s surprise return and kills her? It then takes him weeks to work out how to withdraw the money or to work up the nerve to go through with it.

IMO
Here is a lady who has followed his instruction to a letter- she has sold her house, quit her job, changed her name.
She has at least contemplated buying a school.
IMO she, like all women,is under his control. But why does she return to Australia? He didn’t tell JO he was returning to Australia? He said he was in Lille.
He did hold all Jo’s documents but perhaps not her passport.
He hasn’t stolen anything yet?
What’s her reason to return??
Just my opinion

 

[KiwiNZ]

On the other hand, Marion may have told Sal she wouldn’t be in touch because MB was returning to Australia to confront or surprise AKA. She knew she couldn’t call Sal if she were “home.” And she had no idea what would happen after her return to Australian. The future was on hold.

And what if AKA felt threatened by MB’s surprise return and kills her? It then takes him weeks to work out how to withdraw the money or to work up the nerve to go through with it.

I my mind the 2 options are she was killed in Europe / UK ( but I cant get past her passport returning and I can't quite get my head around someone travelling as her) or she willingly came back under some stupid reason AH came up with, because he needed her to get the money, since none of her accounts were in the name Remarkel.

I feel if is she was in a panic she would have contacted her family or at least contacted the police, I just don't think she saw what was coming when it came.

 

[mishy66]

Perhaps he poisoned Marion before he left?

But he left before she called Sally on the 1st August...