Found Deceased Australia - Melissa Caddick, 49, Sydney, NSW, 12 Nov 2020 #6

[minime9]

The apartment was bought with investor funds....and the apartment is in MC’s name.... so shouldn’t the family be treated like all the other creditors (ie investors) and join the queue for what funds get shared! Why should they be treated differently because they are old and gave MC funds for the apartment.... many of the investors are old and they too gave MC funds for their future!

The difference is that their funds were a considerable deposit towards the property for them to live it. They didn’t buy it as an investment. That was their home!

 

[MsLilly]

The difference is that their funds were a considerable deposit towards the property for them to live it. They didn’t buy it as an investment. That was their home!

...but didn’t they give MC funds after she purchased the property and the property was in her name....and were the funds put towards the property? They need to suck it up and join the creditors queue!

 

[HelloJohnny]

I'm querying how much manual investigation they would need to do to establish that I and thousands of others are not doing something illegal whereas Melissa was. I find it unlikely that being flagged for receiving a couple of payments from her brother was one of her biggest fears.

There are heaps of case studies out there, and some examples published by AUSTRAC themselves. The cross matching capabilities between Government agencies, play a major factor in the flagging process. MC would have been very well aware of this. The advancement in this space has strengthened greatly in the past couple of years. She would have been well aware of this too. IMO

Indicators of financial crime in case studies
Source AUSTRAC, 14 June 2019

Case studies capture AUSTRAC’s work in disrupting financial crime
Source AUSTRAC, 12 Jun 2019

Australia and international money laundering: Key “red flags”
Source NGM

 

[JLZ]

The difference is that their funds were a considerable deposit towards the property for them to live it. They didn’t buy it as an investment. That was their home!

They didn't buy it as a speculation. If it decreased in market value that need not have been a bad outcome for them since they could still live there. The other creditors accepted a higher level of risk since shares are essentially volatile. But I'm not sure how relevant that difference is. What failed the investors had nothing to do with the volatility of their investment. What failed both groups, parents and investors, was Melissa's dishonesty. Arguably neither was impeccably careful.

 

[Investig8r]

One thing I don't understand is ..... MC stole all of that money.... why didn't she just purchase the properties outright???

Why go to all the trouble of deceiving banks etc when she could have just paid for the properties with the stolen money?

The thrill of it perhaps???

IMO MC may have needed the liquidity in case any investors requested their money back. Getting the money from her parents may have been timely to pay back an investor in the Ponzi scheme? Maybe there were no reserve investors waiting to join.... We would need to understand the timing of any previous returns to investors and available cash flow at those points in time. Perhaps cash was also needed for overseas trips/ purchases? MCs parents cash could have helped shore up loans (depending on their timing).

Then there is the negative gearing aspect or possible losses to offset future capital gains (if in trust). Was the alleged rent under market value? Do we know what rent was being paid and have the renters names been confirmed?

In any case I feel very sorry for MCs parents.

 

[JLZ]

There are heaps of case studies out there, and some examples published by AUSTRAC themselves. The cross matching capabilities between Government agencies, play a major factor in the flagging process. MC would have been very well aware of this. The advancement in this space has strengthened greatly in the past couple of years. She would have been well aware of this too. IMO

Indicators of financial crime in case studies
Source AUSTRAC, 14 June 2019

Case studies capture AUSTRAC’s work in disrupting financial crime
Source AUSTRAC, 12 Jun 2019

Australia and international money laundering: Key “red flags”
Source NGM

I'm not going to read all that right now but I do thank you and maybe later.

 

[minime9]

...but didn’t they give MC funds after she purchased the property and the property was in her name....and were the funds put towards the property? They need to suck it up and join the creditors queue!

Yes they did but they needed to sell their house in Lugarno first, which explains the delay & they never would had had the full amount upfront to buy.

The proceeds of the house sold in Lugarno was given to MC to put down towards the mortgage. The apartment was bought for them to live in . MC took on the loan because she obviously wanted to control everything but also to have her parents closer to home & the parents didn’t have enough money to buy it outright.

 

[JLZ]

No.... but I cant see him not supporting his parents at this awful time.... IMO

"By all means talk to a lawyer. This affects you not me. It's for you to decide."

 

[OwlHeart]

I'm querying how much manual investigation they would need to do to establish that I and thousands of others are not doing something illegal whereas Melissa was. I find it unlikely that being flagged for receiving a couple of payments from her brother was one of her biggest fears.

Not entirely useless or irrelevant fun fact #1:

The reason RMS no longer issues drivers licences/i.d card on the spot is because of the Chinese national who had over 25 drivers licences with his photo but different names/d.ob/addresses.
He was using them to make bank deposits overseas that were over $10 000, sometimes 20 in one day.

When he was inevitably busted, the RMS had every new drivers license and i.d card application sent to their department in Parkes which now employs state-of-the-art technology to scan photos and give security clearance to your license before it is mailed to your address 7-10 business days later.

So we don't ever have a naughty Chinese national sending home $100,000 a day for 3 months straight again.

25 bloody I.D's, geez!

 

[OwlHeart]

Sometimes people only fool themselves. Her actions were definitely not rational. But sometimes people continue to lie even when it’s proven to be untrue.

I asked about the casino/gambling because I'm wondering if MC owed some big people some big money for a flighty champagne fuelled bet she made in the earlier stages of her "career", placing big bets may be an amateurs idea of saving face.

Surely you guys have combined forces on this topic already?

 

[SLouTh]

IMO MC may have needed the liquidity in case any investors requested their money back. Getting the money from her parents may have been timely to pay back an investor in the Ponzi scheme? Maybe there were no reserve investors waiting to join.... We would need to understand the timing of any previous returns to investors and available cash flow at those points in time. Perhaps cash was also needed for overseas trips/ purchases? MCs parents cash could have helped shore up loans (depending on their timing).

Then there is the negative gearing aspect or possible losses to offset future capital gains (if in trust). Was the alleged rent under market value? Do we know what rent was being paid and have the renters names been confirmed?

In any case I feel very sorry for MCs parents.

Yes agree wholeheartedly .....

Its just that I was thinking that for the amount of money that is actually missing, you would expect to find more properties than just two??? Surely she didn't just spend the entire amount missing on herself and holidays etc... ??
But agree she would have needed to be fluid, in case an investor wanted their money back..... but where is all of that "fluid" money???

It seems the liquidators have found "some" shares, but not enough to cover the huge loss by Investors....

We don't know any details about the "rent" or if any was actually paid?? Its all an assumption, from what I have read...

 

[minime9]

IMO MC may have needed the liquidity in case any investors requested their money back. Getting the money from her parents may have been timely to pay back an investor in the Ponzi scheme? Maybe there were no reserve investors waiting to join.... We would need to understand the timing of any previous returns to investors and available cash flow at those points in time. Perhaps cash was also needed for overseas trips/ purchases? MCs parents cash could have helped shore up loans (depending on their timing).

Then there is the negative gearing aspect or possible losses to offset future capital gains (if in trust). Was the alleged rent under market value? Do we know what rent was being paid and have the renters names been confirmed?

In any case I feel very sorry for MCs parents.

I’m really going have to find my posts but basically...
Before some of the affidavits were made private I came across information that the apartment had an investors mortgage on it & it seems that although the parents received $4000 allowance a month from Melissa also received some payments from the parents, but they weren’t in a regular capacity.

I also found 2 payments that AG made to Melissa for around the $140000 mark and they were marked as “rent” Apparently MC asked AG for that money to help pay the mortgage on the Edgecliffe penthouse.

Also the parents contributed 1 million towards the purchase price of the penthouse however it seems that Melissa pocketed a lot of that money. The home insurance policy was a landlord policy.

Basically it doesn’t seem that the parents were paying rent regularly but...


I remember SouthAussie replying to me here. I was outraged when I started discovering these documents... the $140k rent payments triggered me to dig deep lol. Anyway he basically told me that he has clients with tenants that don’t pay regular rent (usually family members) & rent doesn’t have to be in form of regular cash payments. Rent could be babysitting. I’ve dug deeper & found that there are instances where the ato will allow this

Also I remembered the budget. Very clearly shows annual amount for landlord insurance for Edgecliffe & also has amount for mortgage/rent to be paid each month for Edgecliffe .

Page 33 of https://www.fedcourt.gov.au/__data/...Adam-Edward-Grimley-sworn-8-December-2020.pdf

 

[SLouTh]

I asked about the casino/gambling because I'm wondering if MC owed some big people some big money for a flighty champagne fuelled bet she made in the earlier stages of her "career", placing big bets may be an amateurs idea of saving face.

Surely you guys have combined forces on this topic already?

Yes, all in the previous deleted threads.... sadly....

 

[HelloJohnny]

...but didn’t they give MC funds after she purchased the property and the property was in her name....and were the funds put towards the property? They need to suck it up and join the creditors queue!

To a certain degree I agree.

But...
What if the parents honestly thought that they co-owned the property? It is not inconceivable to think that when the purchase deed was enacted, they were jointly listed on the registered Title.

If my child told me this was the case, I would never procure a copy of the title to validate it, because of the level of trust already established. However, if I was dealing with a third party I definitely would. IMO it comes down to trust.

If the parents can prove this, I think that only MCs share of the property is up for grabs. A court would rule on this. Then if they didn’t have the capacity to buy out MCs share fairly quickly (so it can be distributed to creditors), the property would probably need to be put up for sale.

I realise this might not appear fair, but I think that it could go either way. IMO.
(I am not a legal practitioner)

 

[JLZ]

Not entirely useless or irrelevant fun fact #1:

The reason RMS no longer issues drivers licences/i.d card on the spot is because of the Chinese national who had over 25 drivers licences with his photo but different names/d.ob/addresses.
He was using them to make bank deposits overseas that were over $10 000, sometimes 20 in one day.

When he was inevitably busted, the RMS had every new drivers license and i.d card application sent to their department in Parkes which now employs state-of-the-art technology to scan photos and give security clearance to your license before it is mailed to your address 7-10 business days later.

So we don't ever have a naughty Chinese national sending home $100,000 a day for 3 months straight again.

25 bloody I.D's, geez!

I don't altogether follow. I think my attention's expired for the day. But was it his money? What's wrong with sending it to himself in China?

 

[OwlHeart]

Yes, all in the previous deleted threads.... sadly....

I see.

Sooo, recap?

Was Australia's sweetheart into the betting? Did you guys rule out any organised crime association?

 

[SLouTh]

I see.

Sooo, recap?

Was Australia's sweetheart into the betting? Did you guys rule out any organised crime association?

We couldn't find any proof, of betting, or organized crime, but came to the conclusion that possibly Melissa "gambled" on the share market.... with penny stocks and such.... but somebody else could explain that part better than me...

 

[Trooper]

I see.

Sooo, recap?

Was Australia's sweetheart into the betting? Did you guys rule out any organised crime association?

I ruled out any organised crime events, mainly because she lasted so long at her game, and her client list doesn't appear to have anyone suspicious on it. Her unfortunate victims were her friends and family and friends of friends. While she lived in gangster territory, ( Ibrahim comes to mind ) being a woman would kind of exclude her from that very fertile ground of turning any activity into big money, without making a lot of impatient enemies.

I haven't completely ruled out gambling, .... they are so tightlipped about big losers and big winners.. but I somehow doubt it, . it would be too public. Horse racing made a slight appearance in her life, but it was more as a networking effort to attract people with disposable income who could be persuaded to put it into Melissa's willing hands.

Underground stuff.. .. brothels, massage parlours, human traficking, all these things I wouldn't put past her, considering what she was prepared to do to make money, but nothing of any substance so far.

 

[SLouTh]

To a certain degree I agree.

But...
What if the parents honestly thought that they co-owned the property? It is not inconceivable to think that when the purchase deed was enacted, they were jointly listed on the registered Title.

If my child told me this was the case, I would never procure a copy of the title to validate it, because of the level of trust already established. However, if I was dealing with a third party I definitely would. IMO it comes down to trust.

If the parents can prove this, I think that only MCs share of the property is up for grabs. A court would rule on this. Then if they didn’t have the capacity to buy out MCs share fairly quickly (so it can be distributed to creditors), the property would probably need to be put up for sale.

I realise this might not appear fair, but I think that it could go either way. IMO.
(I am not a legal practitioner)

There was a copy of the title deeds in the old threads..... maybe who ever linked it could re post it???
However, only Melissa's name was on the Title Deed for Edgecliff.......

 

[Trooper]

I see.

Sooo, recap?

Was Australia's sweetheart into the betting? Did you guys rule out any organised crime association?

Forex business made a small appearance from stage left.. she did have some contact indirectly with some kind of world currency gambling thingy.. one can lose a hell of a lot of money between breakfast and morning tea, without really trying at all at that little caper.. and she was a committed risktaker. ...