GUILTY Australia - Morgan Huxley, 31, stabbed to death, Neutral Bay, NSW, 8 Sept 2013 #2

[Ausgirl]

:welcome: AJM! And thanks for your post and local insights. Especially re the doors on Military Rd. Interesting!

 

[Yeawell]

Just a thought about MH using the Internet cafe...

Some have suggested that MH may have used to Internet cafe to search/organise gay hookups etc so as to not use his home computer to do this but then why would he sometimes take a female, as has been reported with him?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Have been lurking for a while, you all have some great theories, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I've been following this case with interest as I live very local, in fact I drive down Watson St most days, I buy take away's from a lot of the places mentioned in the various articles, Crust in particular. The riot squad was searching outside my building for the murder weapon one day.

There are a few things that just don't quite add up for me. In fact my first thought before it was even revealed that MH was a 'ladies man' was a Grindr hook up gone wrong. I guess being a gay guy who uses Grindr in the area, it was something that came to mind. I don't ever recall ever seeing MH or DJK on the app, but then I don't remember everyones profile who I just may casually browse over. Or they may not have had face pics.

I think they knew each other prior, and had previously met up for sex. It's not uncommon for a guy just to enjoy sex, MH may not have even been bi or bi curious, he just enjoyed the sex, whether male or female, but it was just that, sex, nothing more.

It seems odd to me that MH went to the Oaks alone, he seemed a popular guy, had been out all with friends etc, why not stay on with them if he wanted to continue drinking. Was he a bit early for his pre-arranged meet up time? So had a beer to fill in time. Was DJK late, that's why he left the house with no shoes, but ended up staying for a beer to fill in the time. It also seems odd that he exited onto Ben Boyd Rd, and paced up and down a few times as reported. If he was just heading straight back home, he could have used the doors on Military Rd and walked to the lights at Watson St.

We are unsure where DJK was working, if at all, there are quite a few take away places opposite the Oaks (Kebab shop etc), perhaps he was working as a kitchen hand at one of these that night (casual cash in hand job?) and MH was waiting for him to finish his shift? Or they simply had planned to meet at that location, because MH wanted to go home first to check the coast was clear for him to come over? His flatmate may well have been aware of what MH was up to but he still liked to keep it discreet, ie check she didn't have friends over and they were socialising in the living room etc.

It's not uncommon for people to meet up for 'discreet' sex, basically entailing even if you were to pass each other in the street you don't acknowledge each other and that's that. I'm just not sure how they would have come across each other in the first place. Maybe DJK had observed MH using particular websites at the internet case. Because again if you have a computer at home/smart phone etc, why else are you using the internet at an internet cafe. He may have approached him in person, or tracked down the online profile and started chatting with him and they decided to meet up?

This is where I then think DJK became obsessed, infatuated even with MH, perhaps stalking him to a point, he may not have even intended to kill him that night, but after they had 'had some fun', MH half asleep basically told him to let himself and drifted off to sleep at this point, DJK snapped at this point having a fantasy in his head about MH and himself, grabbed a knife from his 'chefs kit' stabbing and incapacitating him before he had any idea what was going on.

It could also be this scenario but he was paying DJK for the sex, again this is not uncommon. But DJK becoming obsessed with MH, and to MH it was just sex and DJK wanted more from him. The money he allegedly stole could have in fact have been intended for him? Perhaps the amount found matched an ATM withdrawal of MH's from that evening or days prior.

The initial reports were that MH had been having sex with a woman prior to his death. Could it just be that it was assumed at the time it was a woman? Evidence in the room of a female may have been from days prior? And after further investigations it revealed he'd in fact been having sex with a male, these details were never made public and that when the investigation took a turn? Initially they may have been scrutinising the footage looking for a female and had discounted DJK in the footage in the initial investigations.

Anyways that's just my thoughts, probably way off but who knows.

Interesting thoughts AJM86! I think that's is very probable from the information we have at the moment and I very much agree. I believe too that police just assumed he had been with a woman at first and wonder too about a late night Grindr hookup, which may explain why he went out on his own after the BBQ and then why he was pacing outside the pub before walking towards home.

:wagon:

 

[SouthAussie]

Have been lurking for a while, you all have some great theories, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I've been following this case with interest as I live very local, in fact I drive down Watson St most days, I buy take away's from a lot of the places mentioned in the various articles, Crust in particular. The riot squad was searching outside my building for the murder weapon one day.

There are a few things that just don't quite add up for me. In fact my first thought before it was even revealed that MH was a 'ladies man' was a Grindr hook up gone wrong. I guess being a gay guy who uses Grindr in the area, it was something that came to mind. I don't ever recall ever seeing MH or DJK on the app, but then I don't remember everyones profile who I just may casually browse over. Or they may not have had face pics.

Snipped for space ...

Thanks for the interesting post AJM86! So good to have someone 'in the know' to enlighten us about how these things work. Most of us are just fumbling around in the dark trying to figure it out.

Welcome!!

:welcome4:

 

[Mountain Misst]

Have been lurking for a while, you all have some great theories, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

....snipped for space saving...

Anyways that's just my thoughts, probably way off but who knows.

:welcome:

Welcome to the forum, 86 - am with you 100% Any port in a storm is how I put it. There doesn't have to be an emotional element at all.

<modsnip>

 

[Strangeworld]

Great theories coming out today - I change my mind every few minutes :lol:


If Morgan truly didn't know him, he might still have had some familiarity, only by sight. If they have been in local businesses at the same time, regularly, I'm sure they would have eyeballed each other. Morgan may have felt more comfortable talking to him in the street, maybe welcoming him into his home if it wasn't unlawful entry. I remember going out when I was younger to clubs with friends, and it's funny how comfortable we'd feel talking to people that we'd seen around, but didn't know. Familiarity can bring a false sense of security sometimes.

 

[Nikki_2]

Just clarifying the quiet one thing, not at or to anyone in particular,
just that in todays world there no longer is a clear template of who is unstable, raving lunatic or murderer

It could be anyone, this is the world we live in today. We cannot always go by someone's appearance or their lifestyle choices to know who they really are or how they tick,

In this case MH comes across as having great sex appeal, charm & a magnet to women/men, personally, I think he had the gift of the gab, unarming ppl, making them feel comfortable & abit manipulative, knowing that he was able to make women perhaps fight over him, etc - he would have known that as he was not worried about going out with so many & them knowing about each other - MH is not the first or the last.

DK is this nerdy, never-to-be-noticed-in-a-crowd type of person - & this might be the way he chose to live - he might have been a loner by choice, I say this as the technology today has allowed us to do basically what we want, where we want & with whom - we have been given the freedom to either share with others or do things on our own without being afraid of being labelled a freak or weirdo because we might have chosen to go on holidays on our own, or whatever else ...

So DK, might have preffered to hang out on the net with his geeky mates, or pretend he was working,.. we know what his family have said about him & that is all.. we have yet to see

I am not in any shape or form even suggesting that DK is not at fault here, we know he is the murderer.

I have previously only said, that perhaps there are some different angles to this whole crime, in which DK the 'geeky loner' might not have just randomly one night gone out & decided to kill someone, there could be alot more to both men involved, that will possibly come out during the trial.

In re, whether MH was bi, gay, straight, we have all agreed that it does not matter - this was never the issue, we now are waiting for the motive

Yet again, long post,

 

[SouthAussie]

This is where I then think DJK became obsessed, infatuated even with MH, perhaps stalking him to a point, he may not have even intended to kill him that night, but after they had 'had some fun', MH half asleep basically told him to let himself and drifted off to sleep at this point, DJK snapped at this point having a fantasy in his head about MH and himself, grabbed a knife from his 'chefs kit' stabbing and incapacitating him before he had any idea what was going on.

It could also be this scenario but he was paying DJK for the sex, again this is not uncommon. But DJK becoming obsessed with MH, and to MH it was just sex and DJK wanted more from him. The money he allegedly stole could have in fact have been intended for him? Perhaps the amount found matched an ATM withdrawal of MH's from that evening or days prior.

Just wanted to pull these two bits out from your post AJM86, as they are things we have definitely speculated about ... and I agree either one is highly likely.

I have wondered if DJK meant to kill Morgan, and that maybe he was just so angry that he went mental on Morgan using a nearby implement with no real intent to kill. He did not ensure that Morgan was dead before he ran out - and the jabs to the neck, which proved to be the fatal blows, may have happened when Morgan rose up to defend himself or fell to his knees from initial stabs to the back/side (depending which MSM article you read).

 

[Strangeworld]

What really gets me is IF the info in MSM that indicates he has been faking his life is correct, this is a big alarm bell. That takes careful planning, some element of disconnection with his self concept, and having to be on guard at all times to cover his tracks and not mess up the image he is creating. It's not like a white lie here and there.

I wonder what DK got out of it? Was it because he felt ashamed at where his life was at, was he wanting to please his parents, did he hate himself, did he get off on it, was it just an escape fantasy. I really really hope we get some insight, but of course, not at the cost of some privacy for Morgan's family.

 

[Humdinger]

Larceny would fit with stalking.

He could have an entire collection of things belonging to his targets.

As far as the sexual activity - I say once again, if this was a girl found murdered with her pants off, no one would speculate she invited her attacker in for sex.

The MURDER tells me that it wasn't consensual anything.

Speculating that Morgan was living his entire life in the closet is not only offensive possibly to the family and his memory, it is also totally unsupported by what we know about him.

:cow:

The police have stated that there was signs of sexual activity!
Also we are not at all saying he lived a life in the closet, merely that he may or may not have been bicurious.

We are not trying to slander Morgan, merely discussing the very little info we have been given by MSM.

There is so much we don't know and until the mods tell us that we can't discuss it, I'm quite sure this line of thought / discussion will continue.

 

[Strangeworld]

Just on the fact Morgan was still alive when the flatmate returned - maybe Morgan pretended to be dead? This is quite common when someone is attacked - a perfect example is the recent terrorist attack in the Kenyan shopping centre. Many pretended to be dead even though they were in excruciating pain.

 

[SouthAussie]

Just on the fact Morgan was still alive when the flatmate returned - maybe Morgan pretended to be dead? This is quite common when someone is attacked - a perfect example is the recent terrorist attack in the Kenyan shopping centre. Many pretended to be dead even though they were in excruciating pain.

Good point!

 

[IHAVENOCLUE]

Have been lurking for a while, you all have some great theories, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

I've been following this case with interest as I live very local, in fact I drive down Watson St most days, I buy take away's from a lot of the places mentioned in the various articles, Crust in particular. The riot squad was searching outside my building for the murder weapon one day.

There are a few things that just don't quite add up for me. In fact my first thought before it was even revealed that MH was a 'ladies man' was a Grindr hook up gone wrong. I guess being a gay guy who uses Grindr in the area, it was something that came to mind. I don't ever recall ever seeing MH or DJK on the app, but then I don't remember everyones profile who I just may casually browse over. Or they may not have had face pics.

I think they knew each other prior, and had previously met up for sex. It's not uncommon for a guy just to enjoy sex, MH may not have even been bi or bi curious, he just enjoyed the sex, whether male or female, but it was just that, sex, nothing more.

It seems odd to me that MH went to the Oaks alone, he seemed a popular guy, had been out all with friends etc, why not stay on with them if he wanted to continue drinking. Was he a bit early for his pre-arranged meet up time? So had a beer to fill in time. Was DJK late, that's why he left the house with no shoes, but ended up staying for a beer to fill in the time. It also seems odd that he exited onto Ben Boyd Rd, and paced up and down a few times as reported. If he was just heading straight back home, he could have used the doors on Military Rd and walked to the lights at Watson St.

We are unsure where DJK was working, if at all, there are quite a few take away places opposite the Oaks (Kebab shop etc), perhaps he was working as a kitchen hand at one of these that night (casual cash in hand job?) and MH was waiting for him to finish his shift? Or they simply had planned to meet at that location, because MH wanted to go home first to check the coast was clear for him to come over? His flatmate may well have been aware of what MH was up to but he still liked to keep it discreet, ie check she didn't have friends over and they were socialising in the living room etc.

It's not uncommon for people to meet up for 'discreet' sex, basically entailing even if you were to pass each other in the street you don't acknowledge each other and that's that. I'm just not sure how they would have come across each other in the first place. Maybe DJK had observed MH using particular websites at the internet case. Because again if you have a computer at home/smart phone etc, why else are you using the internet at an internet cafe. He may have approached him in person, or tracked down the online profile and started chatting with him and they decided to meet up?

This is where I then think DJK became obsessed, infatuated even with MH, perhaps stalking him to a point, he may not have even intended to kill him that night, but after they had 'had some fun', MH half asleep basically told him to let himself and drifted off to sleep at this point, DJK snapped at this point having a fantasy in his head about MH and himself, grabbed a knife from his 'chefs kit' stabbing and incapacitating him before he had any idea what was going on.

It could also be this scenario but he was paying DJK for the sex, again this is not uncommon. But DJK becoming obsessed with MH, and to MH it was just sex and DJK wanted more from him. The money he allegedly stole could have in fact have been intended for him? Perhaps the amount found matched an ATM withdrawal of MH's from that evening or days prior.

The initial reports were that MH had been having sex with a woman prior to his death. Could it just be that it was assumed at the time it was a woman? Evidence in the room of a female may have been from days prior? And after further investigations it revealed he'd in fact been having sex with a male, these details were never made public and that when the investigation took a turn? Initially they may have been scrutinising the footage looking for a female and had discounted DJK in the footage in the initial investigations.

Anyways that's just my thoughts, probably way off but who knows.

:wagon: AJM! :welcome:

it is great to get more local perspective!

:seeya:

 

[Mrs G Norris]

What really gets me is IF the info in MSM that indicates he has been faking his life is correct, this is a big alarm bell. That takes careful planning, some element of disconnection with his self concept, and having to be on guard at all times to cover his tracks and not mess up the image he is creating. It's not like a white lie here and there.

I wonder what DK got out of it? Was it because he felt ashamed at where his life was at, was he wanting to please his parents, did he hate himself, did he get off on it, was it just an escape fantasy. I really really hope we get some insight, but of course, not at the cost of some privacy for Morgan's family.

I agree, it's an enormous red flag to very deep issues .. and agree about motivation for doing it .. failure to meet expectations, disliking the self and what he was capable of .. all of it combined. It's very likely DJK's parents had no idea, why would they?

 

[Mrs G Norris]

I am local. In fact I drove through Watson Street last night on my way back to the Northern Beaches from the Greenwood Hotel in North Sydney. I am amazed at how small this street actually is but now it has this horrible event etched into its history. This murder actually took place in very close proximity to the last major bus stop before reaching the Harbour Bridge. Had this murder occurred 1 day later then it could have created traffic chaos on the morning of Monday 9th September depending on how much of the area Police would have wanted to seal off for investigation.

Regarding larceny. The reason why I stated that it would have to be a fair sum of money that was stolen is because I think DJK could have got away with stealing even a couple of hundred of dollars without anyone noticing that it is missing and that money may not look suspicious in the possession of DJK.

What about this idea .. what if DJK went to steal money out of MH's wallet while he thought MH was unaware, and this is when everything went nuts?

 

[jamie233]

I live in a highly populated area. There is a couple who always do their grocery shopping at the same time as us. I have to travel a short distance to the supermarket. But I would be able to identify the couple in a crowded room, no worries. It's almost awkward. Most people tend to be creatures of habit. If police were to investigate they would not be able to find a link to myself and that couple. But we are familiar to each other.

I have thought all along that the media running with the 14 women thing was a laugh. I know plenty of single guys who might have one or two really close female friends, then a few regular hook ups, add into that a random Saturday night, could easily see how someone might be thought to be 'involved' with so many women.

 

[fruity]

Someone upthread asked an interesting question - to the effect of 'If he was such a nice kid, what happened? Weren't there any signs?"

If you look at how people describe him - it all comes across very passive, the way he's described - quiet, loner, vegetarian, bookish, nice, polite...

He reminds me of a kid I hung with in my late teens. Same deal, kind of finicky and quiet and nice... not really 'one of the boys' but part of the group, though he never shared much about himself (and this is, I find, typical of the 'quiet sociopath'). One weekend all our friends got together in a college dorm, there was drinking and heavy metal, lots of laughs. All the other guys went off to do some guy things involving minor explosives and not a lot of good sense... Well, this nerdy feller and I weren't in that mood, so we hung back in the dorm rooms.

We were just talking, chilling - and suddenly he got very quiet and kind of peered at me weirdly. Then he opens his mouth and out comes, in this very quiet and matter of fact voice, the most appalling stream of vicious, accusatory, hateful words. No warning at all, no build-up, nothing. I sat there with my mouth open, unable to believe that THIS guy was saying THESE things to ME (I was a cool kid, popular with the metal geek crowd, bit of a tomboy, I had no enemies there at all).

Not only did this upset me terribly, it scared the hell out of me. The other guys returned (thank god) and I was in tears, and here's this nerdy guy suddenly laughing, "Awh c'mon, I was just messing with you". Like nothing happened.

He acted all offended when the other guys didn't buy it, and got mad at him for saying what he did. And while he was outwardly nice to me after that and I never saw that side of him again in an obvious way, I somehow always had the feeling he was mentally dismembering me with an axe.

He's so up there on my list of people who would not surprise me one bit if they turned out to be serial killers.

Having studied psych, I've spent a little time over the years analysing that situation and I won't bore you with my various findings... except to say that I clearly, in my goofy and gormless way back then, had crossed some of sort of line within him, to the point where he couldn't hold back his contempt any longer.

And that, I have concluded, was the base note emotion of what was going on - resentment, and contempt.

Anyway (I say, finally getting to my long-winded point) - I'm curious as to whether anyone else has come across this sort of person - the 'quiet sociopath'. As I honestly think DJK probably is one... we might get some insights. And I'm nosy like that. :seeya:

How frightening!

I know a lot of people are saying DJK reminds them of Martin Bryant but I'm thinking more along the lines of the Sandy Hook killer. I know that friends and family are saying that DJK was a nice person and everyone said the Sandy Hook killer was weird, but I think we'll get a better idea of DJK's personality over the next few weeks ... and it won't all be sunshine and roses.

 

[SapphireSteel]

And the difference between Martin Bryant and the Sandy Hook killer is.....?

:dunno:

I see these three cut out of the same cloth - alongside Jason Downie.

Young, "odd", unattractive, unimportant, unsuccessful, and very, very angry about it.

These guys live in their head. They have entire storybooks about people built up, and they expect reality to follow. When reality doesn't turn out the way they want (example - Morgan telling D to eff off) then there's hell to pay.

 

[AJM86]

I have wondered if DJK meant to kill Morgan, and that maybe he was just so angry that he went mental on Morgan using a nearby implement with no real intent to kill. He did not ensure that Morgan was dead before he ran out - and the jabs to the neck, which proved to be the fatal blows, may have happened when Morgan rose up to defend himself or fell to his knees from initial stabs to the back/side (depending which MSM article you read).

I have wondered this too, that either there was no intention to kill MH that night and then something triggered him into a fit of rage and he was trying to kill, or in that fit of rage he was just trying to injure him. His plans didn't seem as thought out to cover his tracts as much, he may have panicked, grabbed the knife and fled. Do we know who made the triple 000 call? I remember reading somewhere the call was made at 3.01, and somewhere else that the flat mate arrived home after after 3. DJK could have fled, called 000 and by pure coincidence MH flat mate arrived home moments later, found MH and made a second call to 000. But I'm sure there would be phone records and that with all those details.

 

[BoxHead]

Have been lurking for a while, you all have some great theories, so I thought I'd share my thoughts.

....

It could also be this scenario but he was paying DJK for the sex, again this is not uncommon. But DJK becoming obsessed with MH, and to MH it was just sex and DJK wanted more from him. The money he allegedly stole could have in fact have been intended for him? Perhaps the amount found matched an ATM withdrawal of MH's from that evening or days prior.

The initial reports were that MH had been having sex with a woman prior to his death. Could it just be that it was assumed at the time it was a woman? Evidence in the room of a female may have been from days prior? And after further investigations it revealed he'd in fact been having sex with a male, these details were never made public and that when the investigation took a turn? Initially they may have been scrutinising the footage looking for a female and had discounted DJK in the footage in the initial investigations.

Anyways that's just my thoughts, probably way off but who knows.

Great post!

If DJK became obsessed with MH, but MH was paying DJK then he would have provided his services gratis in the hope of a relationship. I would guess.

There is little doubt in my mind that they had a prior sexual relationship. I assume that DK has cased the place and planned it out in real life and acted it out in his mind.

Don't you think DJK sounds more like a sadist than someone suffering unrequited love? How can anyone stab someone 28 times and apply 25 superficial wounds? That is torture in my book!

DJK seems to me to be like the killer of Jill Meagher. Someone who just can't control the urge to kill for sexual gratification.