Deceased/Not Found AUSTRALIA - Ms Lesley Trotter, 78, Homicide, Brisbane, 28 Mar 2023

[HinterlandObserver]

If they truly have called off the search because they think they're unlikely to find Lesley, I can only think of a few scenarios: one is that they believe there won't be enough left of Lesley after all this time; another is that they believe she's in another part of the tip and will now be covered with weeks' worth of extra rubbish, making it a logistical nightmare.

Sadly, this new article from The Australian appears to be painting Lesley as an interfering racist; it seems we've reached the almost inevitable point in a drawn-out mystery where the media start to muckrake the victim.

Is it muckraking If it was a fact though?
It by no means justifies murder but it may be a pertinent piece of info that helps get her justice.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Sadly, this new article from The Australian appears to be painting Lesley as an interfering racist; it seems we've reached the almost inevitable point in a drawn-out mystery where the media start to muckrake the victim.

This might be a last resort to find her.

Ie maybe they didn't want to say she might have been a bit racist, but maybe they feel they have to put it out there, in case it might have something to do with what happened to her.

 

[SouthAussie]

I imagine that there are complaints to the council, by Lesley, about persistent offenders.

For example, Lesley may have reported a person(s) who will not comply with something that she felt was right (and perhaps was right by the council by-laws).

The police probably have to run with every scenario. Check everyone out. People who had problems (perhaps) with Lesley, and people Lesley had problems with. They might not necessarily be the same people.
.

 

[HinterlandObserver]

I imagine that there are complaints to the council, by Lesley, about persistent offenders.

For example, Lesley may have reported a person(s) who will not comply with something that she felt was right (and perhaps was right by the council by-laws).

The police probably have to run with every scenario. Check everyone out. People who had problems (perhaps) with Lesley, and people Lesley had problems with. They might not necessarily be the same people.
.

Totally agree

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I wonder if anyone ever reported Lesley to anyone ?

If so I can't see that going down very well with her.

 

[FromGermany1]

This could be really important information. People have focused on Lesley's tendency to sort through the bins, but based on what you've just said, the bins were probably just one small part of her larger attempts to enforce the rules at the complex.

Sadly, IMO that increases the likelihood that someone might have borne a grudge against her.

Although it makes little sense, if they take revenge some days before LT would have gone forever, to her senior residence.

IF the murder took place because of the waste disposal dispute, it makes further no sense to dispose of her body in a bin - would be much too obvious, like delivering the motive voluntarily. IMO

ETA: It would make more sense, if the perp had certain motives (ie money), but with his disposing of LT cared for it, that LT's bin-war in her neighborhood would be seen as the only motive. I think, she told someone (relatives?) about her anger with her so very unteachable neighbors. IMO

 

[mussopossum]

Those cameras are very good. I can see why police would know what Lesley was wearing.

I would really like to know how they were alerted to her in the bin.

Was it due to the blood being found near neighbouring bin and then police requested the footage of that pick up from council, or did the driver not look at the screen that day when alert might have been recorded that something went through that should not into the truck. Did the driver then maybe without looking just flag that location for review on the system and that file was only looked at days or a week later in the office. I know If I was the driver of that truck I would be under considerable stress and anxiety knowing that it had happened.

 

[mussopossum]

You're most welcome, but I'm not sure my insights are that helpful. I guess its like a pair of eyes on the streets near where things took place.

I don't imagine rubbish truck drivers to be very sensitive either but who knows!

Lesley lived on the top floor but was body corporate president/secretary and was very much in charge at her complex. Nothing happened there without her say-so. EDITED TO ADD: She kept the place very well-maintained and tidy.

Your insights are really helpful actually as it is giving us more to think about and sleuth from someone who is basically at the scene

 

[mussopossum]

I've seen cases where the roughest of guys found a body, and even years later, on the stand at the trial maybe, they're in floods of tears over it. It's a very sobering, shocking thing. The guy who found little Cupcake McKinney was a seasoned, experienced FBI agent who had had a long career, and he cried openly on the stand talking about finding her. Little Baby Jane Doe/Christmas Doe '88 from Georgia was found by a logging truck driver who stopped to relieve himself and out of curiosity, investigated the dumped piece of furniture she was concealed within, encased in concrete. The news articles describe him 'crying like a child'.

The guys with the roughest exteriors can have the softest hearts.

And I don't know if they talk about it amongst themselves, but I imagine it's a secret fear many garbologists carry that they'll one day find a body in their truck, or not find one, as happened here.

Nobody with a heart wants to deny another human being the right to be treated with dignity after death. And when you drive a dump truck or pick up skips, there is a non-zero chance that one day, it's going to be your truck a body is found, or at least transported, in.

MOO

honestly I cannot imagine what the truck driver would be going through but also the other drivers who transferred to the other tips after compaction. The people who hose out the trucks, the staff who viewed the footage. This list goes on.

Not to mention her family and friends. I certainly feel for the police officer who would have had to update family that they had now seen her disposed of in a bin into a garbage truck. Just awful.

 

[mussopossum]

Yes, I can read it.
Long article with lots of new stuff in it. Thanks for posting the link.


(Paraphrased) ... it says that in their canvassing of neighbours the police have asked people if they ever saw Lesley climb into a bin. In case Lesley climbed into the bin herself.

It seems that nobody has ever seen Lesley climb into a bin (one neighbour said Lesley would tip a bin over, if she wanted to reach something) ..... and "foul play is firming as the most favoured scenario of investigators".

Detectives called off the search, thinking that there is no way of finding Lesley .... "despite her body being recorded on a rubbish truck’s CCTV camera as a bin was emptied into it just over six weeks ago".

The long investigation has left residents on edge.

While Lesley was on good terms with some neighbours, she was involved in clashes with others. Having abused at least two neighbours with racist remarks.

If a bin was overloaded, Lesley would remove items (presumably so the bin would close) and leave those things on the ground or in the driveway.

A "bin diver" (a person who goes through bins themselves) said that someone who looked like Lesley chased him down the road once, saying "there is a bag, did you take the bag?" "No, I didn't". That happened about 8 weeks ago, and (for whatever reason, it doesn't say) he assumed she was speaking of a bag of containers.

The bin diver said he would have checked the bins on Lesley's street that day, because he checks bins fortnightly according to their recycling day. He told the police this, in case they come across his DNA.

Lesley was in a bin from a building next to her own, a neighbour put the bin out. Blood was found where that bin is stored, it is unknown if it is related.

A neighbour said that Lesley also had run-ins with a man who kept dilapidated vehicles on the grass verge nearby (in the street behind the units). Lesley told the neighbour that she told the man to go back to where he came from (Iraq).

A 20-year old Uni student who lives in the building next door said Lesley would take baked goods and plant cuttings to neighbours, and that she was a kind sweet woman, always lovely.

Police are investigating 3 scenarios:
1. that Lesley met with foul play
2. that Lesley went into a bin, and then had a medical episode
3. some sort of misadventure

Due to Lesley's position in the bin, they are more suspicious than not.

The last time anyone spoke with Lesley was at 12:02am, according to phone records. And she used the phone for an hour or two after that.

Lesley was in a bin from a building next to her own, a neighbour put the bin out. Blood was found where that bin is stored, it is unknown if it is related.

Was it the recycle bin she was in or general household rubbish?

 

[mussopossum]

Right I'm going to fire my Google alert. Just joking

No other tabloids have picked up the update yet either still only the AUS

 

[mussopossum]

So it sounds like something was going down early that morning if someone spoke to her at 12 02 am, and she used the phone for an hour or two after that. Wish we knew who she spoke with.
Did she try to call people in the hour or two later but get no response.

I wonder if she might know someone overseas and might have been on call to overseas.

 

[SouthAussie]

Lesley was in a bin from a building next to her own, a neighbour put the bin out. Blood was found where that bin is stored, it is unknown if it is related.

Was it the recycle bin she was in or general household rubbish?

“Ongoing investigations can reveal that on the morning of Tuesday, the 28th of March this year, the body of a female we believe was Lesley Trotter was located in a general waste wheelie bin,” he [Det Supt Massingham] said.

(old article)
Twist in search for missing woman Lesley Trotter in Queensland rubbish dump

 

[kiwi50]

I think the article means that the last time she spoke to someone on the phone was 12.02 am, and that she continued to use the device, not that she made or received another call.
She may have checked her emails, or read the news or something.

For some reason I imagined her having a landline, and a desktop or laptop rather than a smart phone, being “old“ myself, I prefer to use my ipad for anything online rather than my iphone.
12 02 seems late to be talking to someone, was she complaining to someone or maybe someone was complaining to her.

 

[Twistinginthewind]

Strata management would have the info on anyone making any complaints too

Probably true, but would they "go public" about it, or is it just between them (Strata) and LE?

We'll probably never know?

It is still more than very sad, IMO, if Lesley complained about other tenants or they about her to any degree at all, and that has anything to do with her disappearance and her probably, IMO, being murdered.

Maybe I'm uninformed on some of the facts in the case of Lesley's disappearance, apologies, I honestly haven't been following this case very closely, but I wouldn't think rubbish and recycling bins and who tends to do what around them would be a motive for murder !

JMO

 

[mussopossum]

“Ongoing investigations can reveal that on the morning of Tuesday, the 28th of March this year, the body of a female we believe was Lesley Trotter was located in a general waste wheelie bin,” he [Det Supt Massingham] said.

(old article)
Twist in search for missing woman Lesley Trotter in Queensland rubbish dump

Thanks, SA. I wonder what she weighed.

There must not have been any rubbish in that bin for a body to fit wholly in it,

 

[iamshadow21]

Thanks, SA. I wonder what she weighed.

There must not have been any rubbish in that bin for a body to fit wholly in it,

A full sized bin has a bigger volume than you'd think. I remember climbing in them to jump up and down on paper waste to get it to fit better when I was in my youth, working in retail. I fit easily.

Even now, in my forties, and half again the weight I used to be, I think I'd fit in a standard bin with room to spare. (Full disclosure, I'm 5'7" and a little over 90kg.) I think I'd even fit in our red bin, which is smaller than our recycling or green waste bins, though it would be a squeeze and I think I'd need help getting out again.

(I love you all, but I'm going to leave it in the realm of the theoretical. I'm not climbing in for you folks. But trust me. I am the garbage/recycling police of our house, and semiregularly, I have tipped our bins mostly on their side for me lean my upper half inside to reach the bottom to retrieve an incorrectly filed piece of garbage. So, I have done a version of putting myself in my own bin relatively often enough for me to judge whether all of me would fit.)

Unless a body is in rigor, it will bend and fold wherever there are joints. A child or a petite woman will fit in a suitcase. Heck, I've heard of a couple of cases here on WS where adult men were put in one. I don't know Lesley's size or weight, but to me, she doesn't look nearly as tall or as heavy as me. I think she would have filled half a bin, max, if it was fullsized. Two thirds if it was a smaller bin. So I don't think the bin would have had to be empty for her to fit.

But these are all very much my opinions and conjecture only.

 

[mussopossum]

A full sized bin has a bigger volume than you'd think. I remember climbing in them to jump up and down on paper waste to get it to fit better when I was in my youth, working in retail. I fit easily.

Even now, in my forties, and half again the weight I used to be, I think I'd fit in a standard bin with room to spare. (Full disclosure, I'm 5'7" and a little over 90kg.) I think I'd even fit in our red bin, which is smaller than our recycling or green waste bins, though it would be a squeeze and I think I'd need help getting out again.

(I love you all, but I'm going to leave it in the realm of the theoretical. I'm not climbing in for you folks. But trust me. I am the garbage/recycling police of our house, and semiregularly, I have tipped our bins mostly on their side for me lean my upper half inside to reach the bottom to retrieve an incorrectly filed piece of garbage. So, I have done a version of putting myself in my own bin relatively often enough for me to judge whether all of me would fit.)

Unless a body is in rigor, it will bend and fold wherever there are joints. A child or a petite woman will fit in a suitcase. Heck, I've heard of a couple of cases here on WS where adult men were put in one. I don't know Lesley's size or weight, but to me, she doesn't look nearly as tall or as heavy as me. I think she would have filled half a bin, max, if it was fullsized. Two thirds if it was a smaller bin. So I don't think the bin would have had to be empty for her to fit.

But these are all very much my opinions and conjecture only.

I was gardening today ad took the big green bin out back but dumped a couple of small things in it to wheel down back. Found myself in this scenario funnily enough. I had to get the small items ( small bag soil and some scissors) out of it. Soon as i went in head and torso first it tipped over so i was literally going in when on its side to get stuff out.

 

[iamshadow21]

I was gardening today ad took the big green bin out back but dumped a couple of small things in it to wheel down back. Found myself in this scenario funnily enough. I had to get the small items ( small bag soil and some scissors) out of it. Soon as i went in head and torso first it tipped over so i was literally going in when on its side to get stuff out.

Yep. Most often I've done it to retrieve stuff other housemates have chucked in the recycling which aren't recyclable. Like, paper with a plastic coating, or take-away containers with plastic linings, cups mostly. Most notably, I retrieved a housemate's plastic file envelope containing all of her important documents including birth certificate, teaching certificate, bank and inheritance documents, etc. (She'd had a cleanout and thrown it in the recycling by accident. I only found it by accident, too, reaching for another item that wasn't meant to be in there.)

I have absolutely no doubt I could squat in the bottom of that bin and still have room for plenty of recyclables around me. And I'm not small.

MOO

 

[Dpdan]

I wonder how the bin was moved from the storage location (where the blood was found) to kerbside. It would be noticeably very much heavier than general waste. Also when the bin worker attached it to the lorry, wouldn't they have noticed the weight in that manoeuvre from kerb to lorry? As you have to tip them to move them, when they are heavy they are difficult to keep upright enough not to over balance.