Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Midwestmom2019]

VUFORS - Wonnangatta Sighting - 8th of June, 1996
A UFO was sighted in 1996 at the Wonnangatta station by a four weel drive club, there were 50 adults and 20 to 30 children there at the time.

Not saying abducted by anyone or anything. But there are SO many plausible reasons. The drone crashing and its retrieval seems to top the list. That’s the benefit of hindsight. With no clues shared by LE, speculation is all we have to work with.

 

[Panda]

Well I've just thought of another theory. Where I am, there is a big, big, problem with wild dogs. They attacked someone in a State Forest in my area 2 weeks ago. There have also been reports of wild dogs attacking horseriders and cattles' legs. They are killing goats and kids on a regular basis, even with good fencing in place. I only found this out as I went into a forest at the back of my property and was nearly attacked. My dog and I were extremely lucky to escape without injury or more likely death. These dogs are smart, cunning, ferocious have no fear. There's a lot of "pig" dogs which have been let loose and breed. Due to the bushfires in our area, a lot of the farmers' fences still aren't repaired which means cattle get into the forest, as do the farmers' dogs when they go to find them and round them up. Therefore, the authorities have cancelled baiting. If a pack of dogs brought me down, I would have no chance whatsoever.

Ramjet - do you know if there is a problem with wild dogs in that area?

 

[Ramjet]

Well I've just thought of another theory. Where I am, there is a big, big, problem with wild dogs. They attacked someone in a State Forest in my area 2 weeks ago. There have also been reports of wild dogs attacking horseriders and cattles' legs. They are killing goats and kids on a regular basis, even with good fencing in place. I only found this out as I went into a forest at the back of my property and was nearly attacked. My dog and I were extremely lucky to escape without injury or more likely death. These dogs are smart, cunning, ferocious have no fear. There's a lot of "pig" dogs which have been let loose and breed. Due to the bushfires in our area, a lot of the farmers' fences still aren't repaired which means cattle get into the forest, as do the farmers' dogs when they go to find them and round them up. Therefore, the authorities have cancelled baiting. If a pack of dogs brought me down, I would have no chance whatsoever.

Ramjet - do you know if there is a problem with wild dogs in that area?

Yes I believe there are lots of wild dogs around.
In my experience they are never a hazard to humans.
I also believe there is no shortage of food supply around camp areas as well as deer carcass remains etc. So I wouldn't be concerned if I was hiking anywhere in Victoria.
I know wild pigs can be dangerous if disturbed but they are no where near here.
Snakes are a big danger in high summer.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.watoday.com.au/national...ml?ref=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_source=rss_feed


Now, the Wonnangatta Valley has served up a new bafflement.

Nothing has been heard of Russell Hill, 74, and his companion Carol Clay, 73, in the 10 weeks since they set up camp in the Wonnangatta Valley, not far from where Barclay was murdered 102 years previously.

Bewilderingly, their campsite was found burned and Mr Hill’s four-wheel-drive was scorched, though still in perfect working order.

This latest vanishing may yet be solved. But it affirms a haunting timelessness about the Wonnangatta Valley, its secrets tucked away amid the ancient mountains.

 

[Ramjet]

Sean Farrar

 

[Timekeeper65]

Sean Farrar

OH!

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Sean Farrar

Couldn’t finish reading the poison tragedy. Euk. It doesn’t matter. They’re allowing hunters to kill bear cubs in dens now. What is WRONG with these idiots????

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.google.com/url?rct=j&sa...QVU6Ug&usg=AFQjCNEUiwbAz78LrKwrf5rS_G4xUHFL1w

Police have cut the time frame in which Russell Hill and Carol Clay vanished from their High Country campsite to about 18 hours. Investigators believe ...
Sorry, it's behind a paywall.



Found a tiny bit more of it

"Missing Campers Vanished in 18 hour Window

The search for missing campers Carol Clay and Russell Hill continues as police narrow down the time frame in which the pair disappeared with one detective revealing what he thinks happened in that 18 hour window"

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I'd love to know what the detective thinks happened but so far haven't been able to read the story even though a search found a link to it on Pressreader. No amount of trying have I been able to find the story there.

 

[Paul_Pry]

Latest HS article in full -

Police have cut the time frame in which Russell Hill and Carol Clay vanished from their High Country campsite to about 18 hours

Investigators believe something happened to the friends overnight or the morning after they last made contact from the Dry River Creek Track in the Wonnangatta Valley.

It has been 73 days since they left on the ill-fated camping trip which has gripped Victorians and is the subject of a major missing persons squad inquiry.

Investigators know Mr Hill talked via his radio with a friend at about 6.30pm on March 20, a day after setting off to East Gippsland.

He spoke only briefly because darkness was descending and he wanted to set up the camp site.

The next day, other High Country visitors came across their camp at about 2pm.

They saw fire had destroyed a tent and camp furniture and had also scorched the side of Mr Hill’s Toyota LandCruiser.

Those passers-by believe it had been out long enough to have gone cold.

It was not smoking at that point.

The fire remains one of the most intriguing elements of the case because, despite an arson chemist’s investigation, its exact cause is not known.

Detective Insp. Andrew Stamper, the head of the missing persons squad, said it was as though Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, disappeared into thin air.

He said search and rescue squad officers, who have run major operations in the surrounding area, were convinced they would have found some trace of the friends if they were still there.

Insp. Stamper said talk of wild dogs removing remains of people who died in the High Country possibly had foundation, but the canines would be expected to leave behind traces like footwear or clothing.

Insp. Stamper said it was possible something had gone wrong while the pair were out exploring the bush.

But both getting into the kind of trouble which led to death was less likely, he said.

Investigators are now trying to track every person who was in the area where Mr Hill, of Drouin, and Ms Clay, who is from Pakenham, travelled.

Insp. Stamper said there were a lot of people in the High Country that weekend as COVID-19 restrictions loomed.

Investigators have been working via public appeals and intensive investigation work to find everyone who was in a wide expanse of the High Country to see if they noticed anything that could help the inquiry.

Mr Hill had been in the King Billy and Bluff Track area from March 13 to 16 on a separate solo visit with his new drone.

He also took the drone on the trip with Ms Clay the next week.

It has not been recovered and remains another puzzling elements of the inquiry.

Anyone with any other information on the disappearance or who has any CCTV or dashcam footage can call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit the website.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

Thanks Paul_Pry.
Looks like the part about the detective revealing "what he thinks happened" isn't part of the story, surprise, surprise.

 

[bancam]

Latest HS article in full -

Police have cut the time frame in which Russell Hill and Carol Clay vanished from their High Country campsite to about 18 hours

Investigators believe something happened to the friends overnight or the morning after they last made contact from the Dry River Creek Track in the Wonnangatta Valley.

It has been 73 days since they left on the ill-fated camping trip which has gripped Victorians and is the subject of a major missing persons squad inquiry.

Investigators know Mr Hill talked via his radio with a friend at about 6.30pm on March 20, a day after setting off to East Gippsland.

He spoke only briefly because darkness was descending and he wanted to set up the camp site.

The next day, other High Country visitors came across their camp at about 2pm.

They saw fire had destroyed a tent and camp furniture and had also scorched the side of Mr Hill’s Toyota LandCruiser.

Those passers-by believe it had been out long enough to have gone cold.

It was not smoking at that point.

The fire remains one of the most intriguing elements of the case because, despite an arson chemist’s investigation, its exact cause is not known.

Detective Insp. Andrew Stamper, the head of the missing persons squad, said it was as though Mr Hill, 74, and Ms Clay, 73, disappeared into thin air.

He said search and rescue squad officers, who have run major operations in the surrounding area, were convinced they would have found some trace of the friends if they were still there.

Insp. Stamper said talk of wild dogs removing remains of people who died in the High Country possibly had foundation, but the canines would be expected to leave behind traces like footwear or clothing.

Insp. Stamper said it was possible something had gone wrong while the pair were out exploring the bush.

But both getting into the kind of trouble which led to death was less likely, he said.

Investigators are now trying to track every person who was in the area where Mr Hill, of Drouin, and Ms Clay, who is from Pakenham, travelled.

Insp. Stamper said there were a lot of people in the High Country that weekend as COVID-19 restrictions loomed.

Investigators have been working via public appeals and intensive investigation work to find everyone who was in a wide expanse of the High Country to see if they noticed anything that could help the inquiry.

Mr Hill had been in the King Billy and Bluff Track area from March 13 to 16 on a separate solo visit with his new drone.

He also took the drone on the trip with Ms Clay the next week.

It has not been recovered and remains another puzzling elements of the inquiry.

Anyone with any other information on the disappearance or who has any CCTV or dashcam footage can call Crime Stoppers on 1800 333 000 or visit the website.

Thanks for this^ Looks like a bit of a rehash to get the story back into the news and hopefully jog some more memories. It does irk me a little that the 18 hour window is being presented as somewhat new information - Police have known this for a couple of months already yet they’re only now narrowing it down to a clearly defined window. Articulating that would’ve been helpful earlier, especially for potential new witnesses. Police knew quite early on when the last radio contact was made and when the burnt campsite was seen. They knew those times long ago.

I’m also surprised it took them up until about a week ago to reveal Russell had been in the area one week prior. It is a big haul there and back, it’s not like a quick run to the corner store. It opens up the possibility that he was doing some sort of advance prep for the later trip with Carol (and if so, what), or that he had been noseying around with his drone and had spotted something unusual that he brought Carol back a week later to further investigate with him.

The police inspector notes the likelihood of some evidence being left behind had wild dogs taken a person (let alone two people), and how it’s a pretty slim possibility that two people would both get into difficulty resulting in both of their deaths (and not leaving a trace in the process). I agree with him. Added to that is a burnt out campsite which their best experts cannot conclude was accidental or deliberate.

This is looking more and more suss to me.

 

[scriabina]

Murder for hire due to jilted love interest or spouse? I suppose in the cases of murder for hire, they usually don't bother hiding the body though, but maybe?

 

[bearbear]

Sean Farrar

oh no!! so cruel and sad!!

 

[bearbear]

Thanks for this^ Looks like a bit of a rehash to get the story back into the news and hopefully jog some more memories. It does irk me a little that the 18 hour window is being presented as somewhat new information - Police have known this for a couple of months already yet they’re only now narrowing it down to a clearly defined window. Articulating that would’ve been helpful earlier, especially for potential new witnesses. Police knew quite early on when the last radio contact was made and when the burnt campsite was seen. They knew those times long ago.

I’m also surprised it took them up until about a week ago to reveal Russell had been in the area one week prior. It is a big haul there and back, it’s not like a quick run to the corner store. It opens up the possibility that he was doing some sort of advance prep for the later trip with Carol (and if so, what), or that he had been noseying around with his drone and had spotted something unusual that he brought Carol back a week later to further investigate with him.

The police inspector notes the likelihood of some evidence being left behind had wild dogs taken a person (let alone two people), and how it’s a pretty slim possibility that two people would both get into difficulty resulting in both of their deaths (and not leaving a trace in the process). I agree with him. Added to that is a burnt out campsite which their best experts cannot conclude was accidental or deliberate.

This is looking more and more suss to me.

thats why my first thought when i posted back 0n page 51, was it a possible m/s?
from media reports she seemed happy and sociable and had just bought a new home, so had lots to look forward to

 

[Ramjet]

So the alpine resort has a strict policy for drones.
However the 'gatta' is quite a distance away.
Here you can also check out the current weather in the area.
Drones – Mt Stirling Alpine Resort

 

[Ramjet]

I find VicPol are very pragmatic in adhering to their strict policies in relation to sharing information.
Media releases need to be completely unambiguous and accurate.
Hoping that they are using the latest drone tech to scour the hill sides. ..( A lot easier than walking )
With high-def imagery from low altitude it should be possible to scan for human remains.
A very large area could be thus explored from the comfort of a desktop.
Sadly I don't think this happening.
In the case of Niels Becker they really only searched the area adjacent to walking tracks whereas he probably took a shortcut through dense scrub.
There is now the technology to search from above.
Of course the weather must be perfect for aerial searching.

 

[MissUnderstood]

It’s like a modern day picnic at hanging rock mystery!!!!

 

[SouthAussie]

The more I think about it, foul play seems to be the answer unless they're voluntarily gone missing, but by family and friend's accounts, it doesn't seem likely. Russell and Carol have known each other for many years (40?), they've gone camping together before. It didn't appear to upset the routine of his marriage, his wife either wasn't aware or didn't care. It just doesn't seem viable they'd run off together.

If someone has harmed them, it'd be hard to move 2 dead bodies any kind of distance. If they were escorted by a person/s carrying a rifle/shotgun, it'd be far easier. They could be taken to a mine shaft or were shot and semi-buried under logs and debris.
The fire was extensive, nothing remained. Why would anyone coming across an empty tent burn it to the ground, the owners could return at any time. If the arsonist has harmed Russell and Carol, that does seem more likely. If a charger was the culprit, it wouldn't have happened when Russell was there because why would he then go off to fly his drone?!

If nothing untoward has happened re: a third party, I don't think Carol would've gone searching for the drone with Russell. If he went off to fly the drone and never returned because he'd been injured or suffered a heart attack, she'd be panicking. Would she go seek help from strangers, risking their affair being exposed to Russell's wife, her friend, or would she try to find him, herself? Carol wasn't an experience bush walker, she wasn't 'into' the outdoors, she wasn't used to roughing it, she would have ordinarily stuck to the camp sites and open field areas which were plenty in the area they camped. If she's gone into the thick bush searching for Russell, she could have collapsed from stress and exhaustion and died.
But it doesn't makes sense why neither have been found by searchers or their bodies detected by drones. Why would coincidently, both be well hidden in the bush?

I get the feeling that VicPol thinks foul play may be involved, and have thought that for a while now.

"While police hold some hope of finding the pair, they do not expect to find them alive."

".....police said the case was baffling, but believe it is unlikely the pair staged their disappearance."

"Police have looked into the pair's finances, including recent purchases, but Inspector Stamper said nothing indicated they had disappeared on purpose. "The eloping theory, in my mind, is not credible," he said."

"Inspector Stamper said Mr Hill was "fastidious in his camping habits", but said neither he nor Ms Clay were experienced bushwalkers and were unlikely to have ventured far from camp."

"Police have not found either of their mobile phones."

"Arson specialists have been unable to determine how the fire at the campsite started. It has not been ruled out as suspicious, however, no accelerant was found at the site."
https://www.theage.com.au/national/...days-before-camping-trip-20200422-p54m7y.html
April 22, 2020

 

[Catmommy]

Unfortunately, feral dog packs are vicious killers and make a hell of a mess. I seriously doubt that this is what happened to the pair without some evidence left behind. So what has happened to them? What indeed.