Found Deceased Australia - Russell Hill, 74, & Carol Clay, 72, Wonnangatta Valley, 20 March 2020

[Panda]

oops..you're correct--Panda...I guess my gut thought on this case from the beginning is that it was a premeditated and a planned murder---and, I inadvertently wrote and attributed that statement in my summary to Detective Stamper--because everything else Dectective Stamper said, I agree with except that aspect...Thank you very much for pointing that mistake out.

No worries trujac. The only reason I pointed it out is because other people who don't read all the articles then believe it as fact, and it becomes Chinese Whispers.

I honestly can't decide what I think happened. Logically, it would make sense that they were using the drone which became lost in the bush and then set out to retrieve it and became lost, killed by wild dogs or severely injured. However, it's a big coincidence for their tent to happen to go up in flames and for both of them to be missing. Especially given all the reports that Russell never strayed far from camp. I also can't believe that someone as "experienced" in the bush and who knows the area would get lost. I always carry a map and compass so that scenario is quite foreign to me. At the very least, you would think he would know how to read the lay of the land - the topography.

Then there is the premeditated scenario. I wondered if someone found out about their affair and took exception to it. But there's no evidence of anyone visiting the campsite, either on foot or by vehicle. For this theory to work, it would have to be quite an elaborate plan, with knowledge of where Russell camps. Given the area is so vast, the people concerned would have to either have followed him or drive around in the "hope" of finding him and Carol camping together. For those reasons, I tend to discount that theory as somewhat "out there".

The other scenario I thought feasible is if they were using the drone and it pissed someone off big time. As there's no evidence of anyone visiting their campsite, that would mean this scenario would only apply if they were away from their campsite. Perhaps a campsite next to them. Given the comments by various people who knew Russell well, it is extremely unlikely he would leave his vehicle and walk a massive distance, so whatever happened I believe must have happened fairly close to their campsite. But then again, if he chose to lock his vehicle, that to me would indicate that he had the intention of not having his vehicle in his sights.

As far as the running off together scenario, I don't think that works at all.

 

[Ramjet]

I have arrived at another possible scenario although I still favour the 'lost drone theory'.
Here I will describe what might have happened:

A medical emergency occurred in the early hours of Sat 21st ..
I'm thinking Russel had a heart turn during the night.
They might have sought help from a neighbouring camper.
This person offered to transport them to a higher location where communication via UHF CB or cellphone would be possible.
The person (or persons) may have had a more suitable vehicle for this rescue.
After de-camping they would then embark on a somewhat hazardous trip back up the Zeka track to the Howitt Plains road.
They would then have to travel a distance along this road towards Licola .. (or possibly the entire distance of ~180 Kms... mostly narrow alpine dirt and gravel) until emergency services could be alerted.
So .. at some point this vehicle has left the road and crashed with the loss of all occupants.
If this is the case I would expect that the good samaritan will (eventually) be reported missing.
But if this is a nomadic, itinerant then this may never occur.
I suggest this theory only if the authorities are convinced that Russell would never go searching high into the scrub for a lost drone.
This scenario is the only rational alternative that I can offer.

 

[Tinker Taylor]

I have arrived at another possible scenario although I still favour the 'lost drone theory'.
Here I will describe what might have happened:

A medical emergency occurred in the early hours of Sat 21st ..
I'm thinking Russel had a heart turn during the night.
They might have sought help from a neighbouring camper.
This person offered to transport them to a higher location where communication via UHF CB or cellphone would be possible.
The person (or persons) may have had a more suitable vehicle for this rescue.
After de-camping they would then embark on a somewhat hazardous trip back up the Zeka track to the Howitt Plains road.
They would then have to travel a distance along this road towards Licola .. (or possibly the entire distance of ~180 Kms... mostly narrow alpine dirt and gravel) until emergency services could be alerted.
So .. at some point this vehicle has left the road and crashed with the loss of all occupants.
If this is the case I would expect that the good samaritan will (eventually) be reported missing.
But if this is a nomadic, itinerant then this may never occur.
I suggest this theory only if the authorities are convinced that Russell would never go searching high into the scrub for a lost drone.
This scenario is the only rational alternative that I can offer.

I like your thinking outside the (murder) box. The only thing is, where is the camp of the person who gave them a lift? You would have to assume that this person was sleeping in his truck for there not to be any evidence of another camper (chair, table cooking pots). And why did their tent happen to catch fire on/around the same time? I just think whatever happened there must be a logical tie up between the fire and the missing couple. Plus despite people saying to the contrary, apparently there is Telstra mobile service in that area.

 

[Midwestmom2019]

What happened? Site down again?

 

[Midwestmom2019]

Half a dozen likes and poof! None stayed liked.

 

[trujac]

I like your thinking outside the (murder) box. The only thing is, where is the camp of the person who gave them a lift? You would have to assume that this person was sleeping in his truck for there not to be any evidence of another camper (chair, table cooking pots). And why did their tent happen to catch fire on/around the same time? I just think whatever happened there must be a logical tie up between the fire and the missing couple. Plus despite people saying to the contrary, apparently there is Telstra mobile service in that area.

Me too, I like Ramjet's thought about RH possibly having a medical emergency--makes perfect sense--re: the tent burning down--the investigators first theory is correct--a faulty cell phone charger/cell phone exploded and started the fire...and yes, I agree...one could drive off the dirt road into an abyss of bush--never to be seen for years, if ever.
Regarding no indications that a vehicle, boot prints, etc...were found by LE around RH and CC's campsite--if the area is compacted dirt and rocks, bushes, trees...would that evidence necessarily show up?

 

[trujac]

What happened? Site down again?

I have had problems posting...and moving from page to page to read posts--everything sticks for a while; a glitch somewhere in Tricia's website server, I think.

 

[trujac]

No worries trujac. The only reason I pointed it out is because other people who don't read all the articles then believe it as fact, and it becomes Chinese Whispers.

I honestly can't decide what I think happened. Logically, it would make sense that they were using the drone which became lost in the bush and then set out to retrieve it and became lost, killed by wild dogs or severely injured. However, it's a big coincidence for their tent to happen to go up in flames and for both of them to be missing. Especially given all the reports that Russell never strayed far from camp. I also can't believe that someone as "experienced" in the bush and who knows the area would get lost. I always carry a map and compass so that scenario is quite foreign to me. At the very least, you would think he would know how to read the lay of the land - the topography.

Then there is the premeditated scenario. I wondered if someone found out about their affair and took exception to it. But there's no evidence of anyone visiting the campsite, either on foot or by vehicle. For this theory to work, it would have to be quite an elaborate plan, with knowledge of where Russell camps. Given the area is so vast, the people concerned would have to either have followed him or drive around in the "hope" of finding him and Carol camping together. For those reasons, I tend to discount that theory as somewhat "out there".

The other scenario I thought feasible is if they were using the drone and it pissed someone off big time. As there's no evidence of anyone visiting their campsite, that would mean this scenario would only apply if they were away from their campsite. Perhaps a campsite next to them. Given the comments by various people who knew Russell well, it is extremely unlikely he would leave his vehicle and walk a massive distance, so whatever happened I believe must have happened fairly close to their campsite. But then again, if he chose to lock his vehicle, that to me would indicate that he had the intention of not having his vehicle in his sights.

As far as the running off together scenario, I don't think that works at all.

Panda, I agree--always correct to point out misinformation...otherwise, dim sum more Chinese whispers, which we don't need.
I like your idea: they ran into someone a short distance from their tent who objected to something they were doing, and then the conflict escalated into violence.
It's a shame that the investigators so far can't find any definitive evidence, as to what happened. It isn't like LE didn't try hard to find RH and CC or what might have happened to them. It has to be a situation where all the events relevant to RH and CC disappearance lined up perfectly obscuring any traces or reasons for their disappearance--in keeping with Ramjet's medical emergency and lost vehicle theory.

 

[Ramjet]

If you read my previous posts I make it clear there is *no* comms out of the valley.
It's appealing that this is so.
Russell has HF radio on board and this would give him confidence on this trip.
It's a long way to drive back to Heyfield so the accident may not be discovered for a while.
The lesson here is to carry EPIRB if you are concerned about emergency.
And... I am not thinking 'out of the box'.. there is simply no reason to suspect a double homicide.

 

[JLZ]

Ramjet (or others who have local knowledge), would approaching (or departing) the Valley from the west eg via Dargo be an easier or more difficult drive, particularly at night?

 

[Tinker Taylor]

If you read my previous posts I make it clear there is *no* comms out of the valley.
It's appealing that this is so.
Russell has HF radio on board and this would give him confidence on this trip.
It's a long way to drive back to Heyfield so the accident may not be discovered for a while.
The lesson here is to carry EPIRB if you are concerned about emergency.
And... I am not thinking 'out of the box'.. there is simply no reason to suspect a double homicide.

When I said you were thinking out of the box, I was referring to other posters on this forum who seem to entertain no other explanation.

Yes, I read your post about "no comms", but I have now read two unrelated sources that say there is signal there.

"Mobile phone coverage is generally available on the higher sections of the track/s, but alternative communication such as a satellite phone is a good option."
Wonnangatta Camping | Wonnangatta Guide | Trayon Campers

I'm not doubting your word that you cannot get any "comms". I'm thinking if you are with telstra and your phone is suitable for remote areas (blue tick), then you might be OK.

 

[bearbear]

what if rh had locked his vehicle containing their valuables etc up for the night before going to bed and somebody had been watching the drone activity from ealier that day or on previous visits and noticed he was an older man, easy prey, so decided theyd steal it while they slept, there was a fight in the tent, maybe one of them died so the other was killed too, bodies dragged out in their sleeping bags and relocated, the tent was burnt destroying dna?
would a burning twig be traceable as evidence of arson?

 

[Kemug]

But they wouldn't be in the tent, would they, they'd be by the truck?

 

[Kemug]

You may be right. On the other hand, I'm not sure if any watcher would have thought that he was easy prey - he must be pretty fit to do all that driving and camping, so probably doesn't move like an old man. And while the mid-seventies may seem ancient to some, it's not mid-eighties or mid- nineties.

 

[JLZ]

When I said you were thinking out of the box, I was referring to other posters on this forum who seem to entertain no other explanation.

Yes, I read your post about "no comms", but I have now read two unrelated sources that say there is signal there.

"Mobile phone coverage is generally available on the higher sections of the track/s, but alternative communication such as a satellite phone is a good option."
Wonnangatta Camping | Wonnangatta Guide | Trayon Campers

View attachment 252580

I'm not doubting your word that you cannot get any "comms". I'm thinking if you are with telstra and your phone is suitable for remote areas (blue tick), then you might be OK.

A valley probably isn't a higher section of the track/s, especially when they are talking about a route from Licola to Wonnangatta to Dargo--quite a distance.

Here's some discussion I found; the question was about mobile coverage on the Australian Alps Walking Track with particular reference to Mt Speculation. 2014, however; might be better now.

--Hi Smokey - I can confirm that you can usually get phone reception on the Crosscut saw, Mt Spec, and the Viking.

--On top of most of the big Hills from baw baw to bogong you get reception to varying degrees. Usually if you can see a ski resort or the Plains off the divide you'll get reception.

--From Mt McDonald round to Spec is all within line of sight to Mt Buller, and you can get a signal even on 2G (which is limited to about 16 km from the base station). With 3G, the distances are much further, so long as you have line-of-sight, so many high peaks will still have coverage even if a considerable distance away from the nearest base station. Check your network provider's website for coverage maps, although pretty much all the networks have base stations at the major ski resorts. Baw Baw, Buller, Hotham, Falls, Thredbo, Mt Selwyn all provide coverage for a decent chunk of the trail. The biggest dark zone is probably Mt Wills round to Thredbo, although it's worth pulling out your phone and giving it a shot on Johnnies Top and Mt Misery.

Definitely worth taking a phone (although should be on airplane mode or turned off most of the time), as it can really chew the battery hunting for a (non-existent) signal when down in a valley. Having a phone will allow you to check weather forecasts (take a look at the Bureau of Meterology Australian Alps weather), and in an emergency, a phone (provided you have signal) can provide more information than an EPIRB.
​

Australian Alps Walking Track

 

[Ramjet]

Ramjet (or others who have local knowledge), would approaching (or departing) the Valley from the west eg via Dargo be an easier or more difficult drive, particularly at night?

Only way out is up Zeka. .
Dargo to the east and other 4x4 tracks are very challenging. . And therefore only way is back to Sale via Heyfield.
Nothing at Licola.
If you venture into the gatta you don't want to have an emergency

 

[JLZ]

Only way out is up Zeka. .
Dargo to the east and other 4x4 tracks are very challenging. . And therefore only way is back to Sale via Heyfield.
Nothing at Licola.
If you venture into the gatta you don't want to have an emergency

Thanks, east is what I meant. I'm bad at right and left as well.

 

[JLZ]

what if rh had locked his vehicle containing their valuables etc up for the night before going to bed and somebody had been watching the drone activity from ealier that day or on previous visits and noticed he was an older man, easy prey, so decided theyd steal it while they slept, there was a fight in the tent, maybe one of them died so the other was killed too, bodies dragged out in their sleeping bags and relocated, the tent was burnt destroying dna?
would a burning twig be traceable as evidence of arson?

I've got a germ of an out-there theory that they never made it to Wonnangatta; that violence occurred elsewhere and the perpetrator moved their belongings so as not to point to the real scene of the crime. Then he burnt the tent so it could not be established from its layout that Russell and Carol were never there. If so, he probably made the radio call himself.

 

[bearbear]

You may be right. On the other hand, I'm not sure if any watcher would have thought that he was easy prey - he must be pretty fit to do all that driving and camping, so probably doesn't move like an old man. And while the mid-seventies may seem ancient to some, it's not mid-eighties or mid- nineties.

no, i agree mid 70s isnt old, but to someone much younger and fitter, he probably looked ancient, it could have been an opportunist theft which got out of control, resulting in death, russell was probably much stronger than expected and fought back? and the thief may not even have had a weapon, just their hands or feet to beat or strangle or kick

 

[JLZ]

Only way out is up Zeka. .
Dargo to the east and other 4x4 tracks are very challenging. . And therefore only way is back to Sale via Heyfield.
Nothing at Licola.
If you venture into the gatta you don't want to have an emergency

So if they camped in the Dargo region the night before, and then planned to spend the next night at Wonnangatta, would you expect them to drive back around through Heyfield and Licola and approach Wonnangatta from that side?