Australia - Sydney, Lilie James, water polo coach, murdered at elite school, assassin sports assistant Paul Thijssen suicided, 25 Oct 2023

[MrJ]

In the scale of things, it was not , it could not be such a big deal, such a life and death matter, where did that rage come from, from what deep turgid toxic well had it been bubbling away .??

As a younger guy, I think of a lot of it is the blokey culture we have where some young men egg on other men to do and say awful things. I remember there was a viral video of some schoolboys on a tram singing a very misogynistic chant here in Melbourne a while ago, so sadly there's a lot of young boys and men that are into this sort of aggressive demeaning behaviour. That plus the casual drinking culture is a recipe for disaster IMO. For the younger men, I think the rise of Andrew Tate and other misogynistic content online is fuelling this, as well as just the simple fact that if these guys have really not heard the word 'no' a lot in their lives, they're more likely to feel entitled to who or what they 'own' and feel personally slighted by rejection or rebuffs. Unless society changes, we're going to see more of these incidents. I hope Lilie's family feels supported as they grieve. Senseless tragedy stemming from undealt with rage MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

As a younger guy, I think of a lot of it is the blokey culture we have where some young men egg on other men to do and say awful things. I remember there was a viral video of some schoolboys on a tram singing a very misogynistic chant here in Melbourne a while ago, so sadly there's a lot of young boys and men that are into this sort of aggressive demeaning behaviour. That plus the casual drinking culture is a recipe for disaster IMO. For the younger men, I think the rise of Andrew Tate and other misogynistic content online is fuelling this, as well as just the simple fact that if these guys have really not heard the word 'no' a lot in their lives, they're more likely to feel entitled to who or what they 'own' and feel personally slighted by rejection or rebuffs. Unless society changes, we're going to see more of these incidents. I hope Lilie's family feels supported as they grieve. Senseless tragedy stemming from undealt with rage MOO

RBBM

And I think privilege does factor into it, though men from all levels of society are capable of great violence against women. Everything I read about this man says to me he had a lot that came to him by virtue of who he was and where he went to school. He seems to have been a bit of a golden boy. The decision to return to his own school as a sports assistant seems a little odd to me. Was he trying to hang onto something? Usually, boys from schools like this would be flying a bit higher. Even at private schools, teachers don't get paid great.

My brother worked for a number of years at Kings School, which people from Sydney will probably be aware of as an institution. He got the job because my mother, a teacher, was good friends with someone else who worked there, and they needed someone to deal with their networks. So my brother, no degree, no nothing, went to work there straight out of high school. And it was enlightening for him, and us, by extension, about how these elite institutions work, how the kids in them think, and where they go from there because of who they are and where they're from. Even the young ones treat the staff like, well, the staff, FYI. They have been told all their lives they're better, and they act like it.

I doubt the murderer in this case had ever really heard no in his life. I think everything he'd experienced and prepared for had led him to believe the world was his oyster, and anything was his for the taking. For most of these kids, that's true. When you're the right kind of chap/gal, doors are forever open for you. But it sets you up for a very rude shock the moment you can't have your own way just one time. It's coming for all these kids. And some of them weather it. And others handle it poorly. And on the extreme end of the spectrum, we have this.

MOO

 

[Trooper]

As a younger guy, I think of a lot of it is the blokey culture we have where some young men egg on other men to do and say awful things. I remember there was a viral video of some schoolboys on a tram singing a very misogynistic chant here in Melbourne a while ago, so sadly there's a lot of young boys and men that are into this sort of aggressive demeaning behaviour. That plus the casual drinking culture is a recipe for disaster IMO. For the younger men, I think the rise of Andrew Tate and other misogynistic content online is fuelling this, as well as just the simple fact that if these guys have really not heard the word 'no' a lot in their lives, they're more likely to feel entitled to who or what they 'own' and feel personally slighted by rejection or rebuffs. Unless society changes, we're going to see more of these incidents. I hope Lilie's family feels supported as they grieve. Senseless tragedy stemming from undealt with rage MOO

I agree entirely... was it St Kevins??? or Scotch??..... I know it was on the 16 tram, Kew via St Kilda, along Glenferrie road, the rotten little sods. I wondered a lot about his family venture migrating to AU in 2015. Relative to other countries in the Better Life Index, The Netherlands outperforms the average in jobs, work-life balance, education, environmental quality, social networks, civic engagement, safety and life satisfaction.. These assessments are based on available selected data. So I wondered what the factors were that inluenced that decision, were they Gert Wilders followers, seeking Nirvana with the One Nation nonsense.?? Were they looking for a harder, tougher society for their son's teenage years??

Were they seeking some far away lawless environment, where some kind of fantasy could be played out?? Australia can provide all these things at whim, no shortage of heavily subsidised masculine pursuits, with the added benefit of keeping women out, to add to the piquancy. ...

 

[MrJ]

Yes, I think it was St Kevin's, if I'm not mistaken.

 

[Trooper]

RBBM

And I think privilege does factor into it, though men from all levels of society are capable of great violence against women. Everything I read about this man says to me he had a lot that came to him by virtue of who he was and where he went to school. He seems to have been a bit of a golden boy. The decision to return to his own school as a sports assistant seems a little odd to me. Was he trying to hang onto something? Usually, boys from schools like this would be flying a bit higher. Even at private schools, teachers don't get paid great.

My brother worked for a number of years at Kings School, which people from Sydney will probably be aware of as an institution. He got the job because my mother, a teacher, was good friends with someone else who worked there, and they needed someone to deal with their networks. So my brother, no degree, no nothing, went to work there straight out of high school. And it was enlightening for him, and us, by extension, about how these elite institutions work, how the kids in them think, and where they go from there because of who they are and where they're from. Even the young ones treat the staff like, well, the staff, FYI. They have been told all their lives they're better, and they act like it.

I doubt the murderer in this case had ever really heard no in his life. I think everything he'd experienced and prepared for had led him to believe the world was his oyster, and anything was his for the taking. For most of these kids, that's true. When you're the right kind of chap/gal, doors are forever open for you. But it sets you up for a very rude shock the moment you can't have your own way just one time. It's coming for all these kids. And some of them weather it. And others handle it poorly. And on the extreme end of the spectrum, we have this.

MOO

bolded by me for emphasis.

I was puzzled by that , also, Shadow. That position had no status, in comparison to his former position as student. And not paid in the scale of his students parents, to any comparable degree. Perhaps he was just filling in, or , more likely he was not socially or intellectually equipped to commit to further studies, or the will to follow a career path. ..

He'd been here in Australia at least 8 years, formative years... he came from a well ordered and extremely cohesive societal environment ( Netherlands) with top class education across all levels. A generally calm and ordered place with a long history of art science, music, literature... Most everyone in the Netherlands has had 3 meals a day.

He was not escaping some war torn famine, losing family along the way, facing hideous circumstances, ghastly open boat sea voyagers, hunted by Border Patrol, clinging to lifeboats, sheltering under bridges in unwelcoming countries, HE HAD IT SMOOTH AS BUTTER.

 

[they'll get you]

Lilie James with her father Jamie, mother Peta and brother Max.

 

[iamshadow21]

bolded by me for emphasis.

I was puzzled by that , also, Shadow. That position had no status, in comparison to his former position as student. And not paid in the scale of his students parents, to any comparable degree. Perhaps he was just filling in, or , more likely he was not socially or intellectually equipped to commit to further studies, or the will to follow a career path. ..

He'd been here in Australia at least 8 years, formative years... he came from a well ordered and extremely cohesive societal environment ( Netherlands) with top class education across all levels. A generally calm and ordered place with a long history of art science, music, literature... Most everyone in the Netherlands has had 3 meals a day.

He was not escaping some war torn famine, losing family along the way, facing hideous circumstances, ghastly open boat sea voyagers, hunted by Border Patrol, clinging to lifeboats, sheltering under bridges in unwelcoming countries, HE HAD IT SMOOTH AS BUTTER.

Believe me, intellect and drive are not requirements for these kids. Yes, Kings was the foundational school of a plethora of high-ranking politicians, businessmen, etc., but many of its alumnae had a playboy lifestyle or a role at mummy or daddy's firm or charity that was essentially pocket money for grown ups with no responsibility or power to run the company into the ground. I can't imagine St Andrew's is much different. I think that leaving maybe gave him his first rude shock that he wasn't that special, and returning was a way of insulating his ego, going back to the place where everything was before him, and the world was rich with the infinite possibilities that are afforded to those who never question that they're going to get what they want.

MOO

 

[acutename]

bolded by me for emphasis.

I was puzzled by that , also, Shadow. That position had no status, in comparison to his former position as student. And not paid in the scale of his students parents, to any comparable degree. Perhaps he was just filling in, or , more likely he was not socially or intellectually equipped to commit to further studies, or the will to follow a career path. ..

He'd been here in Australia at least 8 years, formative years... he came from a well ordered and extremely cohesive societal environment ( Netherlands) with top class education across all levels. A generally calm and ordered place with a long history of art science, music, literature... Most everyone in the Netherlands has had 3 meals a day.

He was not escaping some war torn famine, losing family along the way, facing hideous circumstances, ghastly open boat sea voyagers, hunted by Border Patrol, clinging to lifeboats, sheltering under bridges in unwelcoming countries, HE HAD IT SMOOTH AS BUTTER.

obsession. hormones. no self control. a bad combination.

 

[iamshadow21]

'We are devastated and heartbroken': Lilie James' family release statement after suspected murder

The family of the 21-year-old Lilie James, who was found dead inside St Andrew's Cathedral School, release a statement saying she was "vibrant, outgoing, and very much loved".

www.abc.net.au

Family, friends and the school's comments on Lilie. I'm not going to snip, they're all worthy of reading, but also all exactly what you'd expect people to say in memorium for a woman of her age, achievements, and personality. What a waste.

Body recovered in search for man wanted over woman's 'horrific' death at Sydney school

Lilie James worked as a water polo coach at St Andrew's Cathedral School before her body was found on campus in a bathroom in the gym area.

www.abc.net.au

Apart from the news that a body was recovered, this includes confirmation that the phone call he made was to triple 0 (Australia's emergency number) and he told the operator where to find Lilie's body. The phone call was made at just before midnight (so immediately before police descended on the school), which was approximately four hours after she was killed.

Also, it mentions that post-secondary school, Thijssen studied business in The Netherlands. If he'd studied sports medicine or something similar, his career would make sense, but he didn't. This just reinforces my impression that his job at the school was trying to recapture something ephemeral he felt he lost when he achieved majority.

MOO

 

[imstilla.grandma]

The security footage shows Thijssen, 24, arriving at Diamond Bay Reserve in the eastern suburb of Vaucluse at 8.47pm on Wednesday, an hour after James is believed to have been killed.

Over the next hour, he's seen walking down a path, before dumping the alleged murder weapon – a hammer – in a bin before driving off.

CCTV footage has emerged of Paul Thijssen in the hours after he is suspected to have murdered co-worker Lilie James.

The video shows Thijssen sitting around the corner for the following two hours, before calling triple zero at around midnight to tell police about James' body at St Andrew's Cathedral School.

Operators traced the call, but when officers arrived at the scene, Thijssen was gone.
Police had wanted to speak to him about James' suspected murder, but earlier today, during their search for him, they found a body – believed to be Thijssen's – at the base of a cliff in Vaucluse.

CCTV shows suspected killer in hours after Lilie James' murder

www.9news.com.au

 

[iamshadow21]

CCTV shows suspected killer in hours after Lilie James' murder

www.9news.com.au

Well, I was wrong that no one would see you if you went to The Gap in the middle of the night. I still don't think there is likely any footage of him jumping, but approaching and loitering in the area? Oh yes. I forgot the demographic of Vaucluse. These are obscenely rich people with very good surveillance systems. At least one has turned over their footage, and Channel Nine has published a still from it and described his movements in the area prior to his death. There seems to be confirmation that the item disposed of in the bin was the hammer used to attack Lilie. As you can see from the photos of the area taken from a helicopter or a drone - my money's on helicopter, I think the winds outside of the Heads would make short work of a drone - the cliffs are very tall and sheer to the water, as close to vertical as sandstone hammered by the Tasman Sea (a subsection of the Pacific) can possibly be.

Also, sounds like despite the extensive search, it wasn't Police Rescue or Lifesavers who found him, but local tradies working in the area. They didn't retrieve him, of course, that was all the specialised folk who do cliff rescues and recoveries, but the tradies first saw his body and called it in.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Body in Sydney Harbour identified as missing sports coach Paul Thijssen

It's Paul. Identified by fingerprints. So that's it. No trial. Just the coroner, for both of them. And two grieving families who have to bury their loved ones.

I wish I had some wise insight and something profound to say, but I don't, except to say that toxic masculinity is a curse. And if men aren't going to deal with it in themselves to protect the others in their lives, they should deal with it for themselves. This doesn't just kill women and kids, it kills men, lots of them. Annihilators like this are just the most showy in a headline. Suicide and mental health, drug and alcohol abuse, physical health, isolation... Guys, I'm not going to ask R U OK? because so many of you are not. DO something about it. Reach out. Work on yourselves. Examine your relationship with your emotions and your vices. Or live shorter, sadder lives. It's that simple.

MOO

(EDIT: Despite the headline, Paul's body was not found in the Harbour, as far as I can tell from the photographs. The location is outside the Harbour, around South Head and down a bit facing open ocean. It probably doesn't matter in the scheme of things, except that his body was found at the base of the cliffs he was seen near last, Diamond Bay Reserve, The Gap, Vaucluse, and did not travel around and through the Heads to a spot within the Harbour before discovery.)

 

[scapa]

Awful.

I was going to say that this reminds me of the Ally Kostial murder by Brandon Theesfeld, only a few years on.

But then I realized that I could have named any one of dozens or even hundreds of cases that have followed a similar playbook: woman wanting to leave a relationship -- for whatever reason -- is murdered by the man or even boy she plans to leave.

There are of course the many, many cases where people leave each other and move on peacefully (if not always happily) with their lives. But it sure would be nice to see fewer of these horrifying ones.

 

[Trooper]

I was surprised , this morning, to find nothing about the murderer in any of the tabloids or what passes for newspapers in this nation.... I really expected a long thread of info about T's background in The Netherlands, some neighbor in Amsterdam , or Utrecht, wherever that family resided, ready to spill the beans on what a nice young man he was, or how he displayed strange behavior back then.

Apparently , both mother and father are business people who travel extensively, which struck me as a bit odd why one would want to live so far away from the action here on the far side of the world.

Back in 2015, just as the T's were entering AU as favoured immigrants, another Dutch chap was murdering a young, gorgeous about to be married teacher at a country high school, way out west in Leeton, grape growing country, wheat, and the odd dicey drug industry, a bloke with no background check done AT ALL, sent as a cleaner to a remote school, who had an extensive background of disfunctional presence, known to all and sundry.

As an aside, her parents and fiance sued the NSW education dept for their carelessness and won with no trouble at all.

I am curious as to what St Andrews knew about this person, to hire him to be in close, very close contact with children and teachers, what strings were pulled, what procedures were shifted away... it eventually will be examined by the coroner , and possibly by a civil suit at some stage, I expect.

( Stephanie Scott , see websleuths thread )

 

[iamshadow21]

I was surprised , this morning, to find nothing about the murderer in any of the tabloids or what passes for newspapers in this nation.... I really expected a long thread of info about T's background in The Netherlands, some neighbor in Amsterdam , or Utrecht, wherever that family resided, ready to spill the beans on what a nice young man he was, or how he displayed strange behavior back then.

Apparently , both mother and father are business people who travel extensively, which struck me as a bit odd why one would want to live so far away from the action here on the far side of the world.

Back in 2015, just as the T's were entering AU as favoured immigrants, another Dutch chap was murdering a young, gorgeous about to be married teacher at a country high school, way out west in Leeton, grape growing country, wheat, and the odd dicey drug industry, a bloke with no background check done AT ALL, sent as a cleaner to a remote school, who had an extensive background of disfunctional presence, known to all and sundry.

As an aside, her parents and fiance sued the NSW education dept for their carelessness and won with no trouble at all.

I am curious as to what St Andrews knew about this person, to hire him to be in close, very close contact with children and teachers, what strings were pulled, what procedures were shifted away... it eventually will be examined by the coroner , and possibly by a civil suit at some stage, I expect.

( Stephanie Scott , see websleuths thread )

Well, I doubt he had a teaching degree, he wouldn't have had time to study teaching and business, both, since he left school. He would have legally had to have a Working With Children check, but that's simple enough, go in any Service NSW and fill out the form and they run your name to check for anything that would preclude you working in a school environment. If he didn't have any prior known criminal or violent behaviour on record, he wouldn't raise red flags.

I think this was a situation where he was a prior student, sports captain, good athlete (at a high school level) and enough of the staff knew him from a few years earlier and they thought he was a good egg, so he got the job. He was 'one of us', he knew and had been a part of the culture of the school, so they didn't have any fears about him fitting in.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Shock waves after suspected murder of 21-year-old Lilie James spotlights violence against women

When 21-year-old Lilie James failed to return home from work on Wednesday, a welfare phone call led police to a tragic crime scene they found confronting.

www.abc.net.au

Nothing really new here, just a summary of things, commentary from an anti-DV org, and contact details for more than a dozen helplines and hotlines linked for those having a hard time with the content, etc.

No detail yet about when memorials and funerals will be, but the scheduling of the funeral at least will be dependent on when Lilie is released for burial.

No statements from Paul's family, but I haven't really been expecting any, and I fully expect all arrangements for him will be completely private, and depending on where the majority of his family is based right now, possibly not even in this country.

I expect that at some point in the next few weeks the school will hold their own memorial for Lilie. It may even be at the Cathedral. I expect the singing will be beautiful wherever it is held; the school was created over a hundred years ago because of the choir for the Cathedral, if I'm remembering what I read the other day correctly.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Haunting final act of man believed to have killed teacher Lilie James

Lilie James, a widely adored member of the St Andrews Cathedral School community in Sydney, was found dead in a gym bathroom on school grounds around midnight Thursday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's the Mail, so salt shakers at the ready, but according to anonymous students quoted in this article, his relationship with the students could be less than appropriate.

 

[Ellery84]

Haunting final act of man believed to have killed teacher Lilie James

Lilie James, a widely adored member of the St Andrews Cathedral School community in Sydney, was found dead in a gym bathroom on school grounds around midnight Thursday.

www.dailymail.co.uk

It's the Mail, so salt shakers at the ready, but according to anonymous students quoted in this article, his relationship with the students could be less than appropriate.

That’s super interesting, isn’t it?

I really hope if that is the case, that students are interviewed by police, with appropriate supports, and they are listened to.

The murder suspect may be deceased but perhaps higher- ups at the school might need to be questioned, and the culture examined.

Rest In Peace, Lilie James.

Moo

 

[iamshadow21]

That’s super interesting, isn’t it?

I really hope if that is the case, that students are interviewed by police, with appropriate supports, and they are listened to.

The murder suspect may be deceased but perhaps higher- ups at the school might need to be questioned, and the culture examined.

Rest In Peace, Lilie James.

Moo

Given the most notorious crime that has been in the news here in the last year is the Dawson murder and the grooming and sexual assault of young girls by the men in that case, yes, those investigating should be listening to the students here and going over the culture of the school with a magnifying glass to discover the extent of his behaviour and avoid similar abuses in the future. It was not okay when the Dawsons did it and it is certainly not okay in this day and age.

MOO

 

[Ellery84]

Breaking:
https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...l/news-story/53b4f40718f83ecd169f557c56f87f4b



Murdered water polo coach Lilie James’ family believe her killer “wouldn’t take no for an answer” when she broke up with him just days before her death.

BBM