Australia Australia - Tegan Lane, 2 days old, Sydney, 14 Sept 1996 *K. Lane guilty*

[sosocurious]

I would think there's only a very small possible window of opportunity, for Tegan to be conceived at that address, before Sean Greaves moved in. Maybe Andrew was a real estate agent! Or knew the agent. I always suspect those agents with access to so many properties, might be doing something sneaky behind people's back

Anyway I don't doubt the existence of 'Andrew'. There had to be a biological father. Question is, did she give Tegan to him?

I am with you Marple. I don't doubt the existence of a biological father.
That is about the only thing I am sure of.

 

[The Observer]

Anyway I don't doubt the existence of 'Andrew'. There had to be a biological father. Question is, did she give Tegan to him?

*Snipped by me

After hearing Caro confirm the other babies fathers names were half truths (usually the first name was right) I don't doubt there's an Andrew.

Here's my thing with 'Andrew'; I find it odd he was allegedly a stranger and totally separate and unknown to the Manly community. All the other fathers are of this community. They all know each other, they're all entwined in some way yet the one child that goes missing was fathered by a stranger. I understand she didn't want to tell the fathers in her circle she was pregnant because she was never keeping the babies and didn't want people to know about them, so it is a possibility she didn't have qualms telling this stranger she was pregnant. But why? Why did she tell a man he was the supposed father of her unborn child when she had no plans on keeping the baby like the first baby anyway? Why not hide it like the first baby?

Running on the assumption she told the truth and she informed this Andrew he was the father, was she hoping putting the baby up for adoption would run smoother than baby 1 if she had someone to sign the adoption consent forms? Instead he told her he would take the baby and in turn did whatever he did with her?

Apologies if rambling.

 

[CuriosityKilledtheCat]

Just a thought - was Keli so desperate for Tegan to be born in that early part of September, hence the desperation to be induced, so she could convince "Andrew" that he was the father?

Did I read that Keli and "Andrew's" liasions only occur up to about mid December 1995? Does anyone have further evidence?

Based on the medical evidence as reported, it appears more likely that Tegan was conceived in that late December, Christmas/New Year period. The exact date that she was assessed as being 38 weeks at Ryde Hospital in September would be good to know.

If Tegan was born at 40 weeks on 12 September, then she was conceived around 20 December, so the absolute earliest date she could have been conceived allowing up to 5 days for things to happen is 15 December. Of course, earlier if she was really overdue as she claimed.

Keli has not had any antenatal care, so how can she know her dates for sure? The evidence from Ryde Hospital does not seem to support a mid December or earlier conception.

 

[Bohemian]

*Snipped by me

After hearing Caro confirm the other babies fathers names were half truths (usually the first name was right) I don't doubt there's an Andrew.

Here's my thing with 'Andrew'; I find it odd he was allegedly a stranger and totally separate and unknown to the Manly community. All the other fathers are of this community. They all know each other, they're all entwined in some way yet the one child that goes missing was fathered by a stranger. I understand she didn't want to tell the fathers in her circle she was pregnant because she was never keeping the babies and didn't want people to know about them, so it is a possibility she didn't have qualms telling this stranger she was pregnant. But why? Why did she tell a man he was the supposed father of her unborn child when she had no plans on keeping the baby like the first baby anyway? Why not hide it like the first baby?

Running on the assumption she told the truth and she informed this Andrew he was the father, was she hoping putting the baby up for adoption would run smoother than baby 1 if she had someone to sign the adoption consent forms? Instead he told her he would take the baby and in turn did whatever he did with her?

Apologies if rambling.

It makes me wonder if the next ‘excuse’ will be, ‘Oh, Andrew (his partner/mother) had care and control of Tegan last. He/They must be responsible for her disappearance/murder if she’s never found.’

I’m remembering that Keli still has contact with her daughter. Maybe it is imperative in Keli’s mind that she isn’t shamed/seen as guilty in her daughter’s eyes.

Just having cynical thoughts—don’t mind me. I have met women who are quite pathological and have witnessed their manipulation of others with their lies. I am trying very hard not to let those experiences colour my view of Keli—but her behaviour seems eerily familiar to me.

 

[Via Marple]

What ABC needs is a CD of 1995 White Pages. Not the hard copy. If they can find a 1996 CD, there could be a 1995 one somewhere.

Then just search for 24 Wisbeach Balmain. See what names turn up.

Of course, someone with a key to a unit might not be the one renting the phone line. But could still be valuable info.

 

[Bohemian]

What ABC needs is a CD of 1995 White Pages. Not the hard copy. If they can find a 1996 CD, there could be a 1995 one somewhere.

Then just search for 24 Wisbeach Balmain. See what names turn up.

Of course, someone with a key to a unit might not be the one renting the phone line. But could still be valuable info.

Is there somewhere to search old electoral rolls by address? Or old postal redirections? SG said he didn’t know who had lived in Unit 10 before him so whoever it was may have had their mail redirected as he presumably wasn’t receiving it.

Geez, I tell you, if Keli’s lying she’s leading a lot of people a merry bloody dance. I hope that if there is fresh and compelling evidence found to prove she is not guilty (not just on a legal technicality) that her conviction is quashed. If Tegan is never found, and Keli’s story about ‘Andrew’ et al can’t be substantiated, quite frankly I hope she ‘rots’ in jail until she’s served her time.

 

[The Observer]

It makes me wonder if the next ‘excuse’ will be, ‘Oh, Andrew (his partner/mother) had care and control of Tegan last. He/They must be responsible for her disappearance/murder if she’s never found.’

I’m remembering that Keli still has contact with her daughter. Maybe it is imperative in Keli’s mind that she isn’t shamed/seen as guilty in her daughter’s eyes.

Just having cynical thoughts—don’t mind me. I have met women who are quite pathological and have witnessed their manipulation of others with their lies. I am trying very hard not to let those experiences colour my view of Keli—but her behaviour seems eerily familiar to me.

*Nods in agreement* I think this is where she already is with Caro, we need to find Andrew because 'he has her and what did he do with her'.

Interesting that Caro said today in that podcast and I quote: "There was one concept over and over, she kept saying to me 'Caro, I was doing the right thing. I was doing the right thing by the baby. I wasn't getting rid of the baby. I was doing the right thing by that baby. I wanted that baby to live. I wanted that baby to have a life'.."

She fails to see that by failing to provide any ante-natal care, drinking heavily throughout the pregancies and playing rough water polo is not doing the right thing by the baby. Is she still that naive? She was sure mature enough to take herself to an obstetrician from the get go with the baby she planned on keeping.

 

[Bohemian]

*Nods in agreement* I think this is where she already is with Caro, we need to find Andrew because 'he has her and what did he do with her'.

Interesting that Caro said today in that podcast and I quote: "There was one concept over and over, she kept saying to me 'Caro, I was doing the right thing. I was doing the right thing by the baby. I wasn't getting rid of the baby. I was doing the right thing by that baby. I wanted that baby to live. I wanted that baby to have a life'.."

She fails to see that by failing to provide any ante-natal care, drinking heavily throughout the pregancies and playing rough water polo is not doing the right thing by the baby. Is she still that naive? She was sure mature enough to take herself to an obstetrician from the get go with the baby she planned on keeping.

Not to mention trying to have Tegan induced despite repeated medical advice that she was not overdue. Forced preterm labour places undue stress on the foetus. Perhaps she was hoping that Tegan would be born too early to survive. Attempts at very late term terminations perhaps?

Sorry, I’m thinking some very dark thoughts about psychopathology and how it could relate to Keli right now.

 

[Bohemian]

I’ve decided I’m not going down Keli’s rabbit hole. I’ll let ExposedABC and RMIT’s BoHII do that while I sit and and watch the show.

ETA. This is how far Caro et al went down the rabbit hole:

Search ‘The Keli Lane series probed a disturbing theory about her secret pregnancies’ on Google.

 

[JLZ]

It makes me wonder if the next ‘excuse’ will be, ‘Oh, Andrew (his partner/mother) had care and control of Tegan last. He/They must be responsible for her disappearance/murder if she’s never found.’

I’m remembering that Keli still has contact with her daughter. Maybe it is imperative in Keli’s mind that she isn’t shamed/seen as guilty in her daughter’s eyes.

Just having cynical thoughts—don’t mind me. I have met women who are quite pathological and have witnessed their manipulation of others with their lies. I am trying very hard not to let those experiences colour my view of Keli—but her behaviour seems eerily familiar to me.

Actually I'd been wondering if Duncan had an alibi for the time in question. Because with a slight twist to her story, Duncan was the father, Duncan picked her up from the hospital and drove her home to his place, Duncan took the baby and then they travelled independently to her parents' before the wedding as if they'd been in different places all day. I think I've heard that Duncan's living overseas. In his place, I might be too.

Keli in a police interview, when she did the artless schoolgirl manner--reminded me of a girl I shared a house with who could never remember when rent was due, or any of our previous conversations on the topic.

 

[The Observer]

Excerpt from Nice Girl:

As the interview draws to a close, the other detective in the room makes a few comments about Keli’s claim she called Andrew Norris from hospital after giving birth to Tegan. ‘You say you had no conversations with him to establish the fact he is going to take Tegan, so I want to understand how you came to the conclusion he was going to take her.’

‘We had the discussion when I told him, you know, and he said “What are you going to do? Are you going to get rid of it?” says Keli. ‘I said “No, it’s too late. I can’t keep it. Can you take it?” He wasn’t really happy about it.’

‘So just to clarify, the first time that you told Andrew you were pregnant you discussed the option of him taking the child. And the next time that you spoke about it was when you rang him yourself from the hospital and he has turned up with Mel and his mother to collect the child. You haven’t had any conversations in between. He hasn’t called you and said he is or isn’t taking the child, he just turns up on the day.’ ‘Yeah, pretty much,’ answers Keli.

So you don't speak to his guy for 24weeks (give or take) and you just assume he's showing up after the birth to take the baby?

Excerpt also from Nice Girl:

Gaut makes Keli admit she lied about Duncan’s mother Julie being her homebirth midwife. He also asks her why she put Duncan down as Tegan’s father and her main contact person on hospital documents if he wasn’t the father and didn’t know about Tegan’s birth.

‘I wanted Duncan to be there if something was going to Keli says dramatically.

‘Were you expecting to die?’ asks Gaut deadpan.
‘I almost did!’ exclaims Keli, her eyes wide.
‘Were there complications?’ asks Gaut, unmoved. ‘When you say you almost died–’
‘They said I was very sick,’ insists Keli.
‘Nothing I’ve been told indicates you almost died giving birth,’ Gaut says flatly. ‘I don’t understand why you used Duncan’s name.’

‘Just being foolish,’ Keli replies, her chin cupped in her hands again and her eyes cast down.

‘I don’t understand why you would give hospital staff the names of people like Duncan, Julie and your friend Kati, who you say had no knowledge of the baby, along with wrong numbers for all of them,’ says Gaut.

‘It was a long time ago,’ answers Keli vaguely.

So close to death that she left hospital and attended a wedding where no one even thought she looked "very sick".

Attached pics of excerpts.

 

[Banquo's Ghost]

Nice Girl seems like a pretty thorough look at the case, based on the excerpts posted here. I'm going to grab a copy if I see one.

 

[The Observer]

Nice Girl seems like a pretty thorough look at the case, based on the excerpts posted here. I'm going to grab a copy if I see one.

You can get the ebook for $4.99 online if you're interested. Nice Girl

Edited to add: Speaking of the book and it's claims, I thought this was an interesting interaction.. See pic attached.

 

[Via Marple]

Excerpt from Nice Girl:

As the interview draws to a close, the other detective in the room makes a few comments about Keli’s claim she called Andrew Norris from hospital after giving birth to Tegan. ‘You say you had no conversations with him to establish the fact he is going to take Tegan, so I want to understand how you came to the conclusion he was going to take her.’

‘We had the discussion when I told him, you know, and he said “What are you going to do? Are you going to get rid of it?” says Keli. ‘I said “No, it’s too late. I can’t keep it. Can you take it?” He wasn’t really happy about it.’

‘So just to clarify, the first time that you told Andrew you were pregnant you discussed the option of him taking the child. And the next time that you spoke about it was when you rang him yourself from the hospital and he has turned up with Mel and his mother to collect the child. You haven’t had any conversations in between. He hasn’t called you and said he is or isn’t taking the child, he just turns up on the day.’ ‘Yeah, pretty much,’ answers Keli.

So you don't speak to his guy for 24weeks (give or take) and you just assume he's showing up after the birth to take the baby?

Excerpt also from Nice Girl:

Gaut makes Keli admit she lied about Duncan’s mother Julie being her homebirth midwife. He also asks her why she put Duncan down as Tegan’s father and her main contact person on hospital documents if he wasn’t the father and didn’t know about Tegan’s birth.

‘I wanted Duncan to be there if something was going to Keli says dramatically.

‘Were you expecting to die?’ asks Gaut deadpan.
‘I almost did!’ exclaims Keli, her eyes wide.
‘Were there complications?’ asks Gaut, unmoved. ‘When you say you almost died–’
‘They said I was very sick,’ insists Keli.
‘Nothing I’ve been told indicates you almost died giving birth,’ Gaut says flatly. ‘I don’t understand why you used Duncan’s name.’

‘Just being foolish,’ Keli replies, her chin cupped in her hands again and her eyes cast down.

‘I don’t understand why you would give hospital staff the names of people like Duncan, Julie and your friend Kati, who you say had no knowledge of the baby, along with wrong numbers for all of them,’ says Gaut.

‘It was a long time ago,’ answers Keli vaguely.

So close to death that she left hospital and attended a wedding where no one even thought she looked "very sick".

Attached pics of excerpts.

You really have to read/see the details of how she told her story, to work out for yourself if it is believable. I certainly want to read the book now!

Eg. "Yeah pretty much" possibly translate to "I hadn't prepared that part of the story beforehand, so I better not elaborate here"

Basically anywhere that suddenly went from detailed to vague is suspicious....

The less she expected the questions, the more telling her responses....

 

[Via Marple]

Actually I'd been wondering if Duncan had an alibi for the time in question. Because with a slight twist to her story, Duncan was the father, Duncan picked her up from the hospital and drove her home to his place, Duncan took the baby and then they travelled independently to her parents' before the wedding as if they'd been in different places all day. I think I've heard that Duncan's living overseas. In his place, I might be too.

Keli in a police interview, when she did the artless schoolgirl manner--reminded me of a girl I shared a house with who could never remember when rent was due, or any of our previous conversations on the topic.

the Duncan part... You know my usual question, why would Keli protect him now, she being in jail and he living in his island paradise?

If there were still plenty of alternative explanations after the trial, they can be ruled out after she received her sentence and appeal rejections. She might think there's no way she could be convicted during the trial so she might still stick to certain lies. But surely not now. Time does prove a few things.

 

[Morrisa]

Looks like RMIT has launched an application for an urgent review of the case to the NSW Attorney General

 

[The Observer]

RMIT media release can be read here: Caro Meldrum-Hanna

 

[Bohemian]

RMIT media release can be read here: Caro Meldrum-Hanna

Link not working for me.

 

[The Observer]

Link not working for me.

I'll paste as text to see if this helps.. Caro Meldrum-Hanna

https://lookaside.fbsbx.com/file/MR...uqIqr4hEVicXMbgY2RJnMO8G6ZQOnoBQkfMHans92g_fQ

 

[JLZ]

the Duncan part... You know my usual question, why would Keli protect him now, she being in jail and he living in his island paradise?

If there were still plenty of alternative explanations after the trial, they can be ruled out after she received her sentence and appeal rejections. She might think there's no way she could be convicted during the trial so she might still stick to certain lies. But surely not now. Time does prove a few things.

I was rather thinking if it wasn't true, it might well become one of her versions.