Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[T-dawg420]

These photographs are dated Friday, May 31, the night Theo went missing.

was there a time stamp on this picture by chance? Or is it just after sunset?

When I was at CC at the end of July it got dark pretty early, by 6:30pm you wouldn’t be able to see anything down there. He disappeared on the eve of winter, I’m thinking 8pm that night on that beach would seem like midnight.

It could have been at midnight, however if only going by the darkness then it could have been from anytime an hour after sunset IMO

 

[T-dawg420]

Had to ad the pic on may 31 def needs to be checked however. Just to find out the time it was taken and time of the party/gathering to see if there was anyone around CC at the time.

 

[John Stevens]

IMO - Theo got to CC and was comfortable at that stage because he was sending personal messages and watched you tube! The question is what happened between the last message until the phone woke up at 6 am, 4 hours of silence. IMO - if the phone, slept, woke up and pinged in the same location it is a good indication why the sand should be dug up!

IMO - Theo left CM comfortably because he never argued why he was asked to leave, he left his drink on the table rather then take it with him to the bathroom and he was also talking to an unknown male and ignoring advances from girls so it appears to have been a very serious conversation

<modsnip: Members cannot discuss the social media of some random person who is neither victim nor POI/suspect in a case. Please read The Rules as they related to Social Media>

IMO Theo was not asked to leave as such he was asked to go somewhere at the end of Tennysons to meet someone who then went together to CC. The end of Tennysons is of course the homeless campers.

 

[sparks030405]

I believe it’s been established that maps will keep a phone active in which case passcode / fingerprint won’t be required. And then phone may have been kept active using YouTube.

It’s certainly possible. But if Théo and others were being chased it doesn’t explain why only Théo is missing and why the others who were also being chased haven’t come forward.

They could have split once they got to a certain point (the beach) or some point earlier. Someone who knows Tallows and was being chased, should know to head south toward Suffolk Park houses. CC is a dead end and the wrong direction to head once reaching the beach if being chased.

 

[sparks030405]

IMO - Theo got to CC and was comfortable at that stage because he was sending personal messages and watched you tube! The question is what happened between the last message until the phone woke up at 6 am, 4 hours of silence. IMO - if the phone, slept, woke up and pinged in the same location it is a good indication why the sand should be dug up!

IMO - Theo left CM comfortably because he never argued why he was asked to leave, he left his drink on the table rather then take it with him to the bathroom and he was also talking to an unknown male and ignoring advances from girls so it appears to have been a very serious conversation.

IMO - KOTOE9021 from I/gram took a picture at sunrise at Tallows Beach on the same morning Theo was missing on the 01/06/2019 as the sun was rising and that was the very last post she did on I/Gram. She replied on the day saying thank you to everyones comments but after this day did not reply thank you to a comment and has not posted anything since the 1st! IMO there is a very strong possibility she is also missing.

IMO Theo was not asked to leave as such he was asked to go somewhere at the end of Tennysons to meet someone who then went together to CC. The end of Tennysons is of course the homeless campers.

KOTOE9021 doesn't come up in Inst search for me.???

 

[Chiatos]

KOTOE9021 doesn't come up in Inst search for me.???

Same here

 

[Chiatos]

Something that has baffled me and I can't test it myself walking due to a bad knee. If someone can with an Android phone it would be great.
I'm not disputing that they have detailed records of Theo's movement up to a point.
With location services for me I only get points and straight lines between them while driving. I sometimes have to go into services and answer 'were you at...'.
The claim is that the data they have recorded every 7 seconds. It seems, at least when driving, that there's a trigger to prompt a location. I don't know how this works with walking. For GPS to kick in every 7 seconds would be a huge drain.
Can someone go for a reasonable walk with a recent Android phone and see what location services says?
Not doubting they have the data but I'm intrigued if Theo may have been navigating and the choice to do so isn't showing up in the records.

According to podcast#2 the gps route was plotted every 15 secs.
Does this make a difference to your question?

 

[Chiatos]

IMO - Theo got to CC and was comfortable at that stage because he was sending personal messages and watched you tube! The question is what happened between the last message until the phone woke up at 6 am, 4 hours of silence. IMO - if the phone, slept, woke up and pinged in the same location it is a good indication why the sand should be dug up!

IMO - Theo left CM comfortably because he never argued why he was asked to leave, he left his drink on the table rather then take it with him to the bathroom and he was also talking to an unknown male and ignoring advances from girls so it appears to have been a very serious conversation

<modsnip: Members cannot discuss the social media of some random person who is neither victim nor POI/suspect in a case. Please read The Rules as they related to Social Media>

IMO Theo was not asked to leave as such he was asked to go somewhere at the end of Tennysons to meet someone who then went together to CC. The end of Tennysons is of course the homeless campers.

Theo could have fallen asleep round 2am and could have woken up round 6am . Where? Unknown.

 

[BusterXP]

According to podcast#2 the gps route was plotted every 15 secs.
Does this make a difference to your question?

15 sounds too frequent to me unless navigating. It would be pulling gps up too often. It's triggered based on driving. I'm trying to determine how it operates when walking. If the trigger was there for a short walk batteries would die quickly.
If it pulled up just location services every 15 seconds just for walking I'd think I'd have a stack of routes just walking to the local servo which I don't have.

 

[Jenz]

IMO - Theo got to CC and was comfortable at that stage because he was sending personal messages and watched you tube! The question is what happened between the last message until the phone woke up at 6 am, 4 hours of silence. IMO - if the phone, slept, woke up and pinged in the same location it is a good indication why the sand should be dug up!

IMO - Theo left CM comfortably because he never argued why he was asked to leave, he left his drink on the table rather then take it with him to the bathroom and he was also talking to an unknown male and ignoring advances from girls so it appears to have been a very serious conversation

<modsnip: Members cannot discuss the social media of some random person who is neither victim nor POI/suspect in a case. Please read The Rules as they related to Social Media>

IMO Theo was not asked to leave as such he was asked to go somewhere at the end of Tennysons to meet someone who then went together to CC. The end of Tennysons is of course the homeless campers.

IMO...this doesnt't make sense...not saying it's not possible...just curious...

If Theo is buried there, in your opinion, would the phone ping if it was under the sand? And what would make it ping? I don't get that....but i'm not tech savvy...
Where on the beach would you dig?? It's a pretty large area ...

<modsnip: quoted post was modsnipped>

ETA...also IMO Theo sounds like someone who would not argue about being kicked out.....lightly question or ask, but not argue...MOO

 

[BusterXP]

If Theo is buried there, in your opinion, would the phone ping if it was under the sand? And what would make it ping? I don't get that....but i'm not tech savvy...
Where on the beach would you dig?? It's a pretty large area ...

I'm going back to the phone being in Power Savings Mode and the ping being when 'someone' tried to start it after it shut down at 5%. I think Theo was separated from his phone.

 

[Jenz]

<modsnip: quoted post not related to the following response>

Hey Buster, something i'm not sure about and may have been posted but I missed....what would make the phone ping next morning....like, i'm not asking specifically what. Just, movement? Opening? I'm totally clueless on this. All apologies if this has been answered before...

 

[Jenz]

Hey Buster, something i'm not sure about and may have been posted but I missed....what would make the phone ping next morning....like, i'm not asking specifically what. Just, movement? Opening? I'm totally clueless on this. All apologies if this has been answered before...

Sorry, you answered while I was posting....
Thank you Buster

 

[Chiatos]

15 sounds too frequent to me unless navigating. It would be pulling gps up too often. It's triggered based on driving. I'm trying to determine how it operates when walking. If the trigger was there for a short walk batteries would die quickly.
If it pulled up just location services every 15 seconds just for walking I'd think I'd have a stack of routes just walking to the local servo which I don't have.

Some time ago I followed a gps workshop. The devices we practiced on were GPS devices. GPS devices make contact with GPS satellites when aGPS (assisted GPS) is unavailable. It was explained that mobile phones work in the same manner.
Assisted GPS is mainly available in rural areas where telecom towers and masts are present. Location data are pulled from masts that are within reach.
If someone is in the middle of a desert where there are no masts then devices switch over to GPS satellites .
Theo's phone would have pulled location data from a rural mast in BB, not from satellites.
Would that have drained his battery too?

 

[BusterXP]

Hey Buster, something i'm not sure about and may have been posted but I missed....what would make the phone ping next morning....like, i'm not asking specifically what. Just, movement? Opening? I'm totally clueless on this. All apologies if this has been answered before...

If it shut down at low power (mine does at 5%) then there's just enough juice to turn it on. It might briefly, then, try and grab a phone signal. No need to log in for it to do so. That's what I suspect. In shut down it's completely inactive. No Wake On Lan or anything like that.
Physically turn it on.
Sleep for Android is basically just screen off and lock unless unlocked by Smart Lock. Screen off due to the power it consumes. There's still persistent background activity in Sleep.

 

[Jenz]

So...if someone tried to open his phone in this location

If it shut down at low power (mine does at 5%) then there's just enough juice to turn it on. It might briefly, then, try and grab a phone signal. No need to log in for it to do so. That's what I suspect. In shut down it's completely inactive. No Wake On Lan or anything like that.
Physically turn it on.
Sleep for Android is basically just screen off and lock unless unlocked by Smart Lock. Screen off due to the power it consumes. There's still persistent background activity in Sleep.

Ok, so what about the final ping after that at 1.40pm from memory... is that when it finally shuts down?

IMO If there is foul play involved, noone is going to leave the phone in the area a crime was committed?

Unless they want to make it look like an accident?

 

[BusterXP]

Some time ago I followed a gps workshop. The devices we practiced on were GPS devices. GPS devices make contact with GPS satellites when aGPS (assisted GPS) is unavailable. It was explained that mobile phones work in the same manner.
Assisted GPS is mainly available in rural areas where telecom towers and masts are present. Location data are pulled from masts that are within reach.
If someone is in the middle of a desert where there are no masts then devices switch over to GPS satellites .
Theo's phone would have pulled location data from a rural mast in BB, not from satellites.
Would that have drained his battery too?

With the availability of satellites I'd say it would have used them possibly in combination with cell towers. The signal strength and coverage from that tower at the water tank is small and I can't see any overlap with other towers that overlap. That's based on maps from 'Towers Near Me'. I'd say it was using GPS.
Accuracy from towers can be poor. You need a signal strength to get a distance and two towers at least to give some accuracy.

 

[BusterXP]

So...if someone tried to open his phone in this location

Ok, so what about the final ping after that at 1.40pm from memory... is that when it finally shuts down?

IMO If there is foul play involved, noone is going to leave the phone in the area a crime was committed?

Unless they want to make it look like an accident?

I reckon it had shut down prior to the last ping and the last ping was when it was started up again. Just enough juice left to start it up.
If I've got the times right then 2am to 4am in power savings mode with some services shut down but still some background activity (you'd get about 2 hours or a bit more), shut down at 4am then started up at 1:40 pm.
It fits depending on when the phone was last charged and given possible use. I'd expect about that.

 

[Chiatos]

With the availability of satellites I'd say it would have used them possibly in combination with cell towers. The signal strength and coverage from that tower at the water tank is small and I can't see any overlap with other towers that overlap. That's based on maps from 'Towers Near Me'. I'd say it was using GPS.
Accuracy from towers can be poor. You need a signal strength to get a distance and two towers at least to give some accuracy.

According to podcast#2 BB police received data from Telstra that showed that the phone 'was walking towards the lighthouse'. Did that data derive from satellite? I don't think do, it must have come from a Telstra cell tower(s).

 

[BusterXP]

According to podcast#2 BB police received data from Telstra that showed that the phone 'was walking towards the lighthouse'. Did that data derive from satellite? I don't think do, it must have come from a Telstra cell tower(s).

If it's in a savings mode there's no GPS unless manually activated.