Australia Australia - Theo Hayez, 18, Belgian backpacker, Byron Bay, June 2019 #2

[Ann764]

I gu

No worries. We can both have our own opinions.

Missing people become 'considered deceased' so that people can deal with their business affairs, pay mortgages, sell their house/car/whatever ...... so the families are not left in financial limbo.

They don't all go to inquest.

i guess though what rocket333 and I are trying to understand a 19 yr old would not have much debt his parents still hold belief so why that’s the difference why not leave it open and as a missing person. And each to their own

 

[Rocket333]

No worries. We can both have our own opinions.

Missing people become 'considered deceased' so that people can deal with their business affairs, pay mortgages, sell their house/car/whatever ...... so the families are not left in financial limbo.

They don't all go to inquest.

So why do some stay on the missing persons register indefinitely and others are assumed deceased? Or are they all presumed deceased and all still stay on the missing persons register?

 

[Ann764]

So why do some stay on the missing persons register indefinitely and others are assumed deceased? Or are they all presumed deceased and all still stay on the missing persons register?

Ha ha ha ha . Oh now comedy

 

[SouthAussie]

So why do some stay on the missing persons register indefinitely and others are assumed deceased? Or are they all presumed deceased and all still stay on the missing persons register?

William Tyrrell is presumed deceased - as per the judge in the civil FACS case and Mr Craddock (the Coroner's legal person). William is still on the AFP missing list.

AFP list:
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From the case notes in William's FACS civil case (William=Julian):
"Tragically, but conformably with the evidence that the investigation is being conducted as a homicide investigation, the probabilities are that Julian is no longer alive."

 

[Ann764]

Ha ha ha ha . Oh now comedy

Now this shuts down cos it’s no longer considered a missing person case. We can all devote our time to the in and outs of what defines a missing person to a dead one

 

[Ann764]

William Tyrell is presumed deceased - as per the judge in the civil FACS case and Mr Craddock (the Coroner's legal person). William is still on the missing list.

Yes but a lot has gone on new evidence came up the lead investigator was fire not a great companion and after many years . . And that was smelly from the opening up of the foster blah blah

 

[Rocket333]

“When a person is missing under accidental, unexplained, or suspicious circumstances, and there is belief the person may be deceased, the case may be referred to the Coroner. Police may refer the case to the Coroner to ascertain whether there are alternate avenues of enquiry as part of the investigative process.

Similarly, families can request a case is referred to the Coroner’s Office for the purposes of a death certificate, or as a review of the police investigation to identify potential new avenues of enquiry.

Some States and Territories are required to report all outstanding missing person cases to the Coroner once they reach a certain date/timeframe. “

Coronial process

 

[Ann764]

“When a person is missing under accidental, unexplained, or suspicious circumstances, and there is belief the person may be deceased, the case may be referred to the Coroner. Police may refer the case to the Coroner to ascertain whether there are alternate avenues of enquiry as part of the investigative process.

Similarly, families can request a case is referred to the Coroner’s Office for the purposes of a death certificate, or as a review of the police investigation to identify potential new avenues of enquiry.

Some States and Territories are required to report all outstanding missing person cases to the Coroner once they reach a certain date/timeframe. “

Coronial process

So Theo is essentially missing. But they just wanted to hush it down so tourism and house prices remain at there peak. Great investigating rocket

 

[SouthAussie]

I think there is some misunderstanding going on here.

A pending inquest, or referring the case to the Coroner, does not necessarily mean a police investigation is over.

The case can be in the Coroner's hands AND the police investigation can be ongoing AND a person can be considered missing AND a person can be considered deceased.

None of those things are mutually exclusive.

William's case is a perfect example. The case is in the Coroner's hands (and has been for 4+ years), there is a current inquest (due to resume in March), William is still missing, and William has been presumed deceased (by at least a couple of authorities), and the police investigation is ongoing.

 

[Ann764]

I think there is some misunderstanding going on here.

A pending inquest, or referring the case to the Coroner, does not necessarily mean a police investigation is over.

The case can be in the Coroner's hands AND the police investigation can be ongoing AND a person can be considered missing AND a person can be considered deceased.

None of those things are mutually exclusive.

William's case is a perfect example. The case is in the Coroner's hands (and has been for 4+ years), there is a current inquest (due to resume in March), William is still missing, and William has been presumed deceased (by at least a couple of authorities).

No it’s not a big deal. Bottom line is if Theo’s parents had not been advised to do so he would only missing. William was missing for a considerable time but much has come to light now. It’s all good . The point is with Theo NO ONE KNOWS.

 

[Rocket333]

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I think there is some misunderstanding going on here.

A pending inquest, or referring the case to the Coroner, does not necessarily mean a police investigation is over.

The case can be in the Coroner's hands AND the police investigation can be ongoing AND a person can be considered missing AND a person can be considered deceased.

None of those things are mutually exclusive.

William's case is a perfect example. The case is in the Coroner's hands (and has been for 4+ years), there is a current inquest (due to resume in March), William is still missing, and William has been presumed deceased (by at least a couple of authorities).

Yeah I was just reading the latest on his case. There’s no misunderstanding or debate from me here. I’m just trying to understand and clarify the processes. Coronial intervention is usually welcome for the scrutiny & insights it provides.

 

[SouthAussie]

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Yeah I was just reading the latest on his case. There’s no misunderstanding or debate from me here. I’m just trying to understand and clarify the processes. Coronial intervention is usually welcome for the scrutiny & insights it provides.

I am glad to hear that you understand. The conversation is getting a little murky and hard to follow.

Yes, it is good to have a Coroner on board, and Jubelin got the NSW Coroner on board quite quickly in William's case, too.

It is good, too, to fully understand the process. I started delving into it back in the Gary Tweddle case, and had some contact with the Coroner's office also, at the time. It is a good system that many countries do not have, and it offers some independent analysis and opinion from someone who knows the law and sees many, many coronial cases.

 

[espirtu pampa]

Glad you mentioned that as I thought the same. Nothing to do with his living choices. It was how he kept talking, like rambling to fill the gaps. Like him saying how he feeds the animals and there’s lots of rats, and that there’s nothing to do in Canberra. He’d be anxious he’s going to get kicked out, but it was like he was trying too hard or over compensating. I don’t know him and that might just be his usual way.

I've watch a BBC TV on how to detect when people lie during inquieries : mini movements of the eyes, of facial muscles, the way they speak about what they did during the fatal day and not of the victim, also filling gaps when speaking etc... They even showed people close to the victims being interviewed by BBC crews to put on the evening News. After scrutinising the films taken by the crew inspectors found several suspects who later confess to the crime.

I'am not saying Tommy is a suspect into Théo's disapperance but surely he knows the man who lived near the beach and who disappeared so quickly. Apart offering incentive to the one who will speak out, there is also others to protect such as Tommy.

 

[Rocket333]

I am glad to hear that you understand. The conversation is getting a little murky and hard to follow.

Yes, it is good to have a Coroner on board, and Jubelin got the NSW Coroner on board quite quickly in William's case, too.

It is good, too, to fully understand the process. I started delving into it back in the Gary Tweddle case, and had some contact with the Coroner's office also, at the time. It is a good system that many countries do not have, and it offers some independent analysis and opinion from someone who knows the law and sees many, many coronial cases.

I think we were just trying to ascertain if ‘missing person’ and ‘presumed deceased‘ were mutually exclusive, and why and when cases are sent to the coroner for investigation, in order to understand more about what the police know that we don’t, and where the police investigation is at. When there’s no press releases, you’re left to interpret any activity (or lack of).

ps I liked Jubelin and need to read up on why he was fired.

 

[SouthAussie]

I think we were just trying to ascertain if ‘missing person’ and ‘presumed deceased‘ were mutually exclusive, and why and when cases are sent to the coroner for investigation, to understand more about what the police know that we don’t and where the police investigation is at. When there’s no press releases, your left to interpret the activity (or lack of).

ps I liked Jubelin and need to read up on why he was fired.

Well, he wasn't fired, he retired because they had him pushing pens in the police executive suites. He was a damn good detective, well respected, and is now an investigative journo for the Sunday Telegraph ... as well as writing his memoirs, which will be published next year.

 

[Rocket333]

Well, he wasn't fired, he retired because they had him pushing pens in the police executive suites. He was a damn good detective, well respected, and is now an investigative journo for the Sunday Telegraph ... as well as writing his memoirs, which will be published next year.

And he was pushing pens after being stood down from the WT case and charged with four misconduct offences. As I said I‘ve always liked him and wish him well.

“Chief Inspector Jubelin sensationally quit last month, after being stood down pending an internal investigation into alleged misconduct as he headed the high-profile investigation of William Tyrrell.”

“Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin announced his resignation from the NSW Police Force amid allegations of misconduct. He was stood down from the Tyrrell case before State Coroner Harriet Grahame commenced a coronial inquest int the disappearance of the toddler in March.”

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...leged-illegal-recordings-20190621-p51zws.html


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...w-detective-gary-jubelin-20190924-p52uac.html

 

[SouthAussie]

And he was pushing pens after being stood down from the WT case and charged with four misconduct offences. As I said I‘ve always liked him and wish him well.

“Chief Inspector Jubelin sensationally quit last month, after being stood down pending an internal investigation into alleged misconduct as he headed the high-profile investigation of William Tyrrell.”

“Detective Chief Inspector Gary Jubelin announced his resignation from the NSW Police Force amid allegations of misconduct. He was stood down from the Tyrrell case before State Coroner Harriet Grahame commenced a coronial inquest int the disappearance of the toddler in March.”

https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...leged-illegal-recordings-20190621-p51zws.html


https://www.smh.com.au/national/nsw...w-detective-gary-jubelin-20190924-p52uac.html

Four recordings of a primary POI (because cops never record people on the sly, right? ). Many say there was internal politics and jealousy involved. Court case comes up very soon.

As you can imagine, we were all over it at the time. And will be until his court case is over.

The timing was very poor. They waited and waited until he retired - they could have charged him when they took him off William's case - and right before the inquest. The inquest is suffering due to his absence.

There is a lot more to it than the sensational headlines in your post.

 

[Ann764]

I am glad to hear that you understand. The conversation is getting a little murky and hard to follow.

Yes, it is good to have a Coroner on board, and Jubelin got the NSW Coroner on board quite quickly in William's case, too.

It is good, too, to fully understand the process. I started delving into it back in the Gary Tweddle case, and had some contact with the Coroner's office also, at the time. It is a good system that many countries do not have, and it offers some independent analysis and opinion from someone who knows the law and sees many, many coronial cases.

Yeah I just feel that not all leads of enquiring have been investigated there is so much unanswered. Non of it adds up I still think rocket that our assumptions and theories have some serious ground. And further investigation was required prior to the change in status.

 

[Ann764]

Well, he wasn't fired, he retired because they had him pushing pens in the police executive suites. He was a damn good detective, well respected, and is now an investigative journo for the Sunday Telegraph ... as well as writing his memoirs, which will be published next year.

Pretty sure he was taken off the case as lead .

 

[Ann764]

I've watch a BBC TV on how to detect when people lie during inquieries : mini movements of the eyes, of facial muscles, the way they speak about what they did during the fatal day and not of the victim, also filling gaps when speaking etc... They even showed people close to the victims being interviewed by BBC crews to put on the evening News. After scrutinising the films taken by the crew inspectors found several suspects who later confess to the crime.

I'am not saying Tommy is a suspect into Théo's disapperance but surely he knows the man who lived near the beach and who disappeared so quickly. Apart offering incentive to the one who will speak out, there is also others to protect such as Tommy.

Absolutely. I can’t help but think that group hold the answer .