Australia - Toyah Cordingley, 24, body found on beach, 22 October 2018 #3

[iailwa]

It's fascinating how people (the media likes to ask this..) offer an opinion about whether someone is capable of the crime. Like the neighbours did in the 9news interview. The neighbour's comments about his character and potential to do the crime were based on three seconds of waving to each other. Everyone is capable. The real question is not whether he was capable, but whether he did do it.

Using the 'struggled to deal with dying elderly patients' to explain unusual behaviour is an obvious potential cover. We don't know if he really was struggling. Maybe he was. If he worked at the same hospital for nine years, his work colleagues would have a view also of that. Queensland Health, his employer, has a free 24/7 Employee Assistance Program in place. Interesting to know if he ever actually used that service.

It sounds like the 'work stress' was potentially a good cover to do whatever he did, when he isolated himself. Bank records might show where he went (fuel, accommodation, where he purchased meals from) during those times.

I totally agree. I don't imagine "elderly patients dying at work" was his greatest stressor, although this is what he might have told his family. I think his moonlighting at various beaches & becoming more entrenched - in whatever it was he was doing there - lead him over the edge. Maybe stressors with work (performance), home (relationships), & wanting generally to expose himself (sexual deviancy) - maybe more realistic? Just MOO. I have no idea of course, but we know that burgeoning sexual fantasies can sometimes escalate to murder (with sexual motive) - moreso than elderly patients dying - unless he was responsible for the latter, eek! that could likely push him over the edge too? I'm not saying he was responsible for elderly patient's deathS, i just wonder what made him cross the line? I would love to know what the profilers have said !

 

[iailwa]

And here's some more speculation on location and timing:

Comms tower pings obviously showed POI's and/or Toyah's phone at Lake Placid.

My guess is he's taken a very deliberate drive down to the lower (disused by traffic but used by cyclists and fishermen), part of Kamerunga Bridge, considered that a place to perhaps throw Toyah's things off, because of crocodiles and it's a large and wide river, which would explain why he has driven down Impy Street to get there.

The Lake Placid General Store, right on the very corner of Impy and Lake Placid Road, looks like it has security cameras (and most likely does have them because of that suburb). If he's driven to Wangetti or nearby before, then he's likely seen the lower Kamerunga Bridge on his way.

We also know there was attention in Moody Street, near the creek in that area. There is a Health Service building in that location (unsure if it is a Qld Health facility). Perhaps he's been to that area working for Qld Health or knows of the Health Service from his hospital role, and therefore knew of that creek. Otherwise, it's a very odd place to just know of, for someone who lives in Innisfail. It's not the kind of place you would just accidentally stumble across if you're driving back to Innisfail, ever. You have to be quite deliberate about getting off the road back into Cairns, and onto that Street. He has been to that street before also, and knew of it. We don't know why he was in that Street, although Police were searching the creek. Do we know if anything was found in the creek? I wonder if he had access to the Health Service building and went in there to do something (like use their showers or use the computers or dispose of stuff amongst their medical waste ).

I thought items of interest were recovered from the vicinity of lake placid? I'm sure i read that IIRC - but otherwise MOO (if i can't find anything specific)

 

[iailwa]

here's something related to above @Ampersandish

"Police and SES volunteers yesterday found "numerous items" in a search of bushland and the waters of Lake Placid as part of the investigation, but they declined to say what those items were."

Police reveal new lines of inquiry in Toyah murder case

 

[Rocket333]

And here's some more speculation on location and timing:

Comms tower pings obviously showed POI's and/or Toyah's phone at Lake Placid.

My guess is he's taken a very deliberate drive down to the lower (disused by traffic but used by cyclists and fishermen), part of Kamerunga Bridge, considered that a place to perhaps throw Toyah's things off, because of crocodiles and it's a large and wide river, which would explain why he has driven down Impy Street to get there.

The Lake Placid General Store, right on the very corner of Impy and Lake Placid Road, looks like it has security cameras (and most likely does have them because of that suburb). If he's driven to Wangetti or nearby before, then he's likely seen the lower Kamerunga Bridge on his way.

We also know there was attention in Moody Street, near the creek in that area. There is a Health Service building in that location (unsure if it is a Qld Health facility). Perhaps he's been to that area working for Qld Health or knows of the Health Service from his hospital role, and therefore knew of that creek. Otherwise, it's a very odd place to just know of, for someone who lives in Innisfail. It's not the kind of place you would just accidentally stumble across if you're driving back to Innisfail, ever. You have to be quite deliberate about getting off the road back into Cairns, and onto that Street. He has been to that street before also, and knew of it. We don't know why he was in that Street, although Police were searching the creek. Do we know if anything was found in the creek? I wonder if he had access to the Health Service building and went in there to do something (like use their showers or use the computers or dispose of stuff amongst their medical waste ).

Wow!!! Makes sense now why cyclists around Caravonica were asked to report anything, why Impey Street was a focus, as well as Lake Placid, and also Moody Creek - specifically between Dalton & Marshal Streets (and bingo you are right - thats the location of the Apunipima Cape York Health Council too). Departing Wangetti Beach on Sunday at 4.50pm, going through Clifton Beach around 5.05pm and arriving home at 8.30pm. A 2 hour max drive home takes an extra hour and 40 minutes. Why two stops? Was the first too exposed? He wouldn’t have gained access to Apunipima on a Sunday evening but may have been familiar with its layout, and secluded access to the creek behind. Back roads yes, and familiar with them all too. I also wonder if he ever stayed at the caravan park at Lake Placid when missing from home. Well done

 

[Rocket333]

here's something related to above @Ampersandish

"Police and SES volunteers yesterday found "numerous items" in a search of bushland and the waters of Lake Placid as part of the investigation, but they declined to say what those items were."

Police reveal new lines of inquiry in Toyah murder case

There’s soooooo much we don’t yet know!!

 

[iailwa]

Wow!!! Makes sense now why cyclists around Caravonica were asked to report anything, why Impey Street was a focus, as well as Lake Placid, and also Moody Creek - specifically between Dalton & Marshal Streets (and bingo you are right - thats the location of the Apunipima Cape York Health Council too). Departing Wangetti Beach on Sunday at 4.50pm, going through Clifton Beach around 5.05pm and arriving home at 8.30pm. A 2 hour max drive home takes an extra hour and 40 minutes. Why two stops? Was the first too exposed? He wouldn’t have gained access to Apunipima on a Sunday evening but may have been familiar with its layout, and secluded access to the creek behind. Back roads yes, and familiar with them all too. I also wonder if he ever stayed at the caravan park at Lake Placid when missing from home. Well done

I think MSN said his vehicle was traced to lake placid and then traced another 30 kms south of the area (did he stop for some reason, south?) - maybe he was caught on CCTV on his way travelling home? I will see if i can find the article...

 

[iailwa]

I think MSN said his vehicle was traced to lake placid and then traced another 30 kms south of the area (did he stop for some reason, south?) - maybe he was caught on CCTV on his way travelling home? I will see if i can find the article...

actually maybe it was because Lake Placid is 30km south of Wangetti? sorry to mix it up!

Police close in on Toyah Cordingley's Cairns killer as the murder case takes a twist | Daily Mail Online

 

[OwlHeart]

I'm impressed with the recent detecting, good thinking guys

And this is kind of ironic...though not entirely relevant.

 

[OwlHeart]

Doesn't it amaze you, the amount of scrutinising, cross-checking, dead-ends etc that detectives/investigators spend a large amount of time on?

Specifically, following leads, however doubtful or unpromising they appear to be on the surface.
I recall looking at Port Douglas real estate within days of Toyahs murder, one house in Wangetti/Port Douglas was sold on the 7/11/2018(7th Nov 2018), the listing said, "owners are ready to hand the keys over, determined to sell and go as they have to fly overseas." or words to that effect.
I wanted badly for LE to look into it, though it's only one example of hundreds, thousands of pieces of information that could have been important. Obviously the resources, technology & network LE have make the shortlisting a great deal easier, but still what a load to get through. I guess the best Dees have their intellect, imagination and intuition working in harmony.

 

[Pi Thoughts]

Some lovely photos of Toyah through her childhood....

Mr Cordingley also shared a collection of photographs of his daughter. The images showed her as a child on Christmas Day, having fun on waterslides and in a backyard. It’s these images he is trying to replace the final, more horrific ones, with.
“Toyah used to spend a week with her mother and a week with (my partner Mary) and I as she grew up,” Mr Cordingley wrote.
“I remember our backyard full of laughing happy kids. I remember wonderful birthday parties and Christmases.”
Murder victim Toyah Cordingley’s father relives horror: ‘I found her body on the beach’

 

[OwlHeart]

Pics of the house I mentioned above, see how easy it could be to blow something out of proportion!

 

[OwlHeart]

M

Some lovely photos of Toyah through her childhood....

Mr Cordingley also shared a collection of photographs of his daughter. The images showed her as a child on Christmas Day, having fun on waterslides and in a backyard. It’s these images he is trying to replace the final, more horrific ones, with.
“Toyah used to spend a week with her mother and a week with (my partner Mary) and I as she grew up,” Mr Cordingley wrote.
“I remember our backyard full of laughing happy kids. I remember wonderful birthday parties and Christmases.”
Murder victim Toyah Cordingley’s father relives horror: ‘I found her body on the beach’

My heart truly broke for Toyahs family, especially her father, finding her.
I have a sadness I cannot shake after reading of Toyah being killed and following the news coverage of the tragedy.

 

[Rocket333]

I'm impressed with the recent detecting, good thinking guys

And this is kind of ironic...though not entirely relevant.

Yes, the name is very common.

 

[Ampersandish]

There’s soooooo much we don’t yet know!!

If they've found items in 'bushland' and in the waters of Lake Placid, then sounds like he has gone right down to the end of Lake Placid Road, that's where the swimming area is but there has been sightings of crocodiles in the area for a few years so people don't swim there anymore. I'm guessing he has probably taken the family there at some point in his history of living in Australia.

Apologies, I was confusing Moody Creek with Moody Street. Thanks for confirming the street locations they were looking at. The Moody Creek location at the corner would have been visible to him on his way south back to Innisfail then. Driving into Cairns from anywhere south (like Innisfail), you go across Moody Creek.

As you've said, he wouldn't likely have access to Apunipima, but he may likely have been aware of it / it's location / or been there for outreach health services. We know he was an Enrolled Nurse, but we don't know exactly what his duties involved.

Was he purely on clinical hospital duties / wards or did he do some kind of health outreach that allowed him to travel. Perhaps he had been to that location for some kind of training course. Cairns is the larger regional centre as the headquarters for Qld Health (Innisfail Hospital), so if there is training to be done (and as a government organisation, there will be lots of it) he's possibly had to travel to Cairns for that. Or working in the health field, he knows about that place anyway. Or else none of this is relevant and it just looked like a secluded spot. That seems unlikely however....

Those businesses at the corner of Dalton / Marshall again may have CCTV, because it's a higher crime area and it's a bit secluded. I hope the dees have already canvased that.

 

[BreakingNews]

The drive from Innisfail to Wangetti, is a drive north of approx 1 hour 45 mins and is 128 klms. During that drive, you have to go past Cairns city and Cairns airport, and there are multiple beaches before you get to Wangetti.

Etty Bay (which is a super small and beautiful beach just to the South of Innisfail), and Bramston Beach are much closer to Innisfail and nicer, than Wangetti.

Whilst the family says he 'used to go to the beach to wind down', did he go to just any beach nearby, or did he do the 1 hour 45 minute drive from Innisfail, all the way to the Northern Beaches (Wangetti) of Cairns?? Was he occasionally working relief hospital shifts in or closer to Cairns also, because that would make it easier to visit Wangetti.

I'm speculating when I suggest he did not go to local Innisfail beaches. Local people in Innisfail just wouldn't do the drive from Innisfail all the way to Wangetti, through the Cairns traffic, just to go to a very northern Cairns beach, when Innisfail have their own beaches, much closer and nicer than Wangetti. As he lived in Innisfail (10k population where everyone knows everyone), he might look suspicious at a local beach by himself, and is more likely to be identified. But if he drove to a beach 128 klms away, not so likely.

I think he was at Wangetti for very specific reasons. He had likely been to that location (or nearby it), previously, and on several other occasions. There might be fuel purchases nearby to validate that.

If he did drive to Wangetti Beach - Buchan's Point is on the way and very close (walking distance), which is the second next beach alongside to Wangetti (after Ellis Beach). Buchan's Point is a known Nudist / Gay Beat / Swingers / Cruise beach and has been since the 1970's. Was he hanging out around this area because of it's known history? (locals know this). Online sex forums regularly mention this location for hook-ups and group sex (I Googled it ...).

Driving from Innisfail to Wangetti Beach you don't need to drive into Cairns City and past airport turnoff. South of Cairns you can turn off at Earlville and drive past Redlynch and near Lake Placid to Smithfield then up the highway to Wangetti. Would be a much quicker route to take than going into Cairns City and past the airport. You would take this route if you were going to Port Douglas or any of the northern beaches. And the walk from Wangetti to Buchans Point is not a short walk from Wangetti. And not an easy walk either.

 

[Ampersandish]

Driving from Innisfail to Wangetti Beach you don't need to drive into Cairns City and past airport turnoff. South of Cairns you can turn off at Earlville and drive past Redlynch and near Lake Placid to Smithfield then up the highway to Wangetti. Would be a much quicker route to take than going into Cairns City and past the airport. You would take this route if you were going to Port Douglas or any of the northern beaches. And the walk from Wangetti to Buchans Point is not a short walk from Wangetti. And not an easy walk either.

Yes, I forgot completely about the road via Redlynch, but you still need to drive via Cairns. I grew up in Cairns and still have family there and visit every two years. The point was, why would someone who lives in Innisfail, drive 128 klms, just to go to a beach north of Cairns. And why that beach? To get there, you still need to go via Cairns suburbs. There are much nicer beaches closer to Innisfail IMO (Etty Bay for example).

The issue about Buchan's Point is that it is relatively nearby Wangetti. It's known as a cruise / pickup beach. People go there for sex / voyeurism with strangers. I didn't check the walking distance. You're right, it would be too far to walk and there are lots of rocks at the points. The key issue is that Wangetti and Buchan's are on the same road, within 12 minutes drive of each other. It's not as if Buchan's is up past Port or further on. Wangetti is relatively close to a beach associated with sexual deviancy. I don't believe the POI has gone to Wangetti beach just to relax, destress by looking at the waves, or sunbake without an agenda.

 

[Rocket333]

S

actually maybe it was because Lake Placid is 30km south of Wangetti? sorry to mix it up!

Police close in on Toyah Cordingley's Cairns killer as the murder case takes a twist | Daily Mail Online

If they've found items in 'bushland' and in the waters of Lake Placid, then sounds like he has gone right down to the end of Lake Placid Road, that's where the swimming area is but there has been sightings of crocodiles in the area for a few years so people don't swim there anymore. I'm guessing he has probably taken the family there at some point in his history of living in Australia.

Apologies, I was confusing Moody Creek with Moody Street. Thanks for confirming the street locations they were looking at. The Moody Creek location at the corner would have been visible to him on his way south back to Innisfail then. Driving into Cairns from anywhere south (like Innisfail), you go across Moody Creek.

As you've said, he wouldn't likely have access to Apunipima, but he may likely have been aware of it / it's location / or been there for outreach health services. We know he was an Enrolled Nurse, but we don't know exactly what his duties involved.

Was he purely on clinical hospital duties / wards or did he do some kind of health outreach that allowed him to travel. Perhaps he had been to that location for some kind of training course. Cairns is the larger regional centre as the headquarters for Qld Health (Innisfail Hospital), so if there is training to be done (and as a government organisation, there will be lots of it) he's possibly had to travel to Cairns for that. Or working in the health field, he knows about that place anyway. Or else none of this is relevant and it just looked like a secluded spot. That seems unlikely however....

Those businesses at the corner of Dalton / Marshall again may have CCTV, because it's a higher crime area and it's a bit secluded. I hope the dees have already canvased that.

There was a police call-out for cyclists who had gone to the power station that afternoon. I also recall a photo at the time of a detective standing beside what looked like a cement bridge. I can’t find it now, and thought it was of Moody Creek at the time, but now suspect it was the Kamerunga footbridge. That bridge is surrounded by bush too. I think items were pulled out of Lake Placid and the water and bush around the Kamerunga Bridge was searched too.

I was wondering why he was tossing things in the waterholes around the place, rather than just leaving them at the beach. He attempted to bury Toyah, so why not the clothes and personal effects too? I now think he probably tried to clean up the beach scene to reduce evidence and the detection of his crime, so grabbed everything lying about and attempted to throw it out along the way home. That he chose water holes and public places makes me think he was rushing and hadn’t planned things, which in turn makes me think this wasn’t premeditated. Lake Placid is a tourist spot, the road to the hydro power plant is frequented by Sunday drivers, tourists, cyclists, walkers etc. Sane with the Kamerunga footbridge. This is late afternoon on a warm Spring day, and possibly not even yet dusk. My point is that people were out and about, and he’s chosen publically visible and populated areas. He seems to have also chosen to toss items in water and the bush, rather than take the time to hide them well through burying them or burning them. Again no tools or planning? Moody Creek spot is another odd choice, if he in fact pulled up at the end of Marshall Street, as there’s houses and businesses facing that corner very close-by. His car would have been obvious in daylight. Maybe he waited until it was a little darker. The next street along would’ve given him more privacy from houses, even though there’s still probably cctv. I find the Marshall Street/Moody Creek stop extra confusing. He must have been there before as it’s a weird place and you wouldn’t ordinarily know the creeks there, would you? He must have been trying to spread the evidence widely too, or been disturbed when trying to do it at Caravonica. Maybe there was a lot of it, and it looked too obvious.

Very early on the police asked the public to look out for anyone with unexplained injuries and anyone missing significant clothing. A few weeks later they search waterways and retrieved relevant items (I’m assuming it’s clothing & personal items). So how did they know so early on that significant clothing was missing from the person responsible? Did the killer forget to take their own clothes whilst gathering Toyah’s things? Was the killer half dressed when driving through Cairns (naked waist up for example), hence people noticing scratches and bite marks?
I reckon this wasn’t planned and things got rushed and mistakes happened. He finally gets home, realises how bad it’s gone and checks out.

 

[they'll get you]

Yes, the name is very common.

& more common than John Smith

 

[Rocket333]

Yes, I forgot completely about the road via Redlynch, but you still need to drive via Cairns. I grew up in Cairns and still have family there and visit every two years. The point was, why would someone who lives in Innisfail, drive 128 klms, just to go to a beach north of Cairns. And why that beach? To get there, you still need to go via Cairns suburbs. There are much nicer beaches closer to Innisfail IMO (Etty Bay for example).

The issue about Buchan's Point is that it is relatively nearby Wangetti. It's known as a cruise / pickup beach. People go there for sex / voyeurism with strangers. I didn't check the walking distance. You're right, it would be too far to walk and there are lots of rocks at the points. The key issue is that Wangetti and Buchan's are on the same road, within 12 minutes drive of each other. It's not as if Buchan's is up past Port or further on. Wangetti is relatively close to a beach associated with sexual deviancy. I don't believe the POI has gone to Wangetti beach just to relax, destress by looking at the waves, or sunbake without an agenda.

Agreed. He’s gone to Wangetti in the hope of a sexual thrill. He’s gone before and may have been rewarded, nevertheless the anticipation draws him there and usually is probably enough. Etty Bay is gorgeous, and ideal for solitude and unwinding. Much closer to home too, yet never chosen. He’s a pervert, and it’s probably caused or worsened the divide in his marriage, and in his communication with his family. It’s eventually become a point of no return. Dropping everything and returning to India may have been very easy for him, and a huge relief.

 

[they'll get you]

Agreed. He’s gone to Wangetti in the hope of a sexual thrill. He’s gone before and may have been rewarded, nevertheless the anticipation draws him there and usually is probably enough. Etty Bay is gorgeous, and ideal for solitude and unwinding. Much closer to home too, yet never chosen. He’s a pervert, and it’s probably caused or worsened the divide in his marriage, and in his communication with his family. It’s eventually become a point of no return. Dropping everything and returning to India may have been very easy for him, and a huge relief.

Oh Lord & he's a nurse!?
(allegedly)
I wonder if Toyah attended the hospital recently.