Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[Dotta]

I think so too. One detail, they were waiting to leave till the younger sister would turn 18 in 2017. The younger sister was 23 in 2022. Also, details about their younger brother.

Here are their tweets from Hong Kong. Apparently, in 2019 they got visa in the “third country” and were moving. Said they won’t tweet anymore. Would live like everyone else.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HKsisters6

Here is what Amnesty wrote about them

Saudi sisters beaten by male relatives leave Hong Kong to start new life

Two sisters from Saudi Arabia who fled beatings from their male relatives, and were left stranded in Hong Kong, have begun a new life in another country.

www.amnesty.org

This case is horrific.
I felt terror simply reading the reports.

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

WOW. Totally unexpected. Usually such decisions take a lot of time if people were raised in religious environment since childhood. That, and usually very logical, science-based minds. Question is, how did Yemeni newspapers find out that the girls renounced Islam? Usually parents would not broadcast such information. Maybe they posted it on atheist SM? Would that be the way to find out more about their lives? Then, of course, they could easily become a target.

In one of the articles, with the layout of their apartment, it said that the plumber said there was something odd. Does anyone have any idea what he meant? I have no clue but it sounds strange.

If they were killed, it also must have happened during/immediately after the Ramadan, which is a sin in Islam.

It might be an assumption made (in Yemen) that they had renounced their faith simply based on their moving away and maybe not covering - did they wear hijabs when they went out or were they dressed in western clothes?

* I mean to say that they themselves may not have renounced islam as a faith but their behaviour, from devout Yemeni perspective, would indicate they have.

 

[dotr]

OK I found something in Al Jazeera. There might be some confusion as AJ says their aliases were Reem and Rawan. DM says these were their initial names. But some things fit. Although, they have been living in Hong Kong for 6 mo and left on a family trip to Sri Lanka. But, abuse in home and renounced Islam.

Saudi sisters stuck in Hong Kong months after fleeing kingdom

The two sisters using the aliases Reem and Rawan say Saudi officials kept them from traveling to Australia.

www.aljazeera.com

Could it be the same girls?

Saudi sisters trapped in Hong Kong fear deportation

Two sisters say they fear dramatic repercussions, from forced marriage to death, if sent back to Saudi Arabia.

www.aljazeera.com

Sweet find @Charlot123!!
Have not watched yet to see if it is the same sisters...

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Is someone suggesting that they overdosed on energy drinks, perhaps? It’s quite rare but has happened. 10 grams of caffeine is typically fatal; death by caffeine is so rare because it’s hard to drink so much. Long-term use of 3-4 energy drinks a day have, rarely, landed a younger person in the hospital with cardiac issues. I’ll link to one such instance at the end. If energy drinks were their main source of hydration, they could possibly develop heart problems.

Man's energy drink habit lands him in the hospital with heart failure

The man reported consuming four energy drinks per day for two years.

www.livescience.com

I think it would be very unlikely for two women to die at the same time from caffeine overdose, even if they were both drinking a lot of them.

 

[Charlot123]

Sweet find @Charlot123!!
Have not watched yet to see if it is the same sisters...

Maybe in the 2nd film? But they escaped via Turkey?

The ones featured in Times film I just posted speak good English (correlating with them reporting that they were good in English) and live in Hong Kong, hoping to get a visa to the third country.

 

[moonriverfarm]

These women in the video do not look IMO like the photos of the two deceased women.

 

[Charlot123]

These women in the video do not look IMO like the photos of the two deceased women.

Not the ones posted with face open, who escaped via Turkey.

The ones I posted on the previous page (movie made by Time) are shown from the back, and could be them. They are waiting for a visa in Hong Kong and talking about honor killings, or if they are lucky, their virginity would be checked and they’d be locked up at home - should they be returned to SA.

I think it were them, and they got a visa and also, some type of witness protection or whatever it was called, but sooner or later, someone got to them. There are many people involved in their visa, like Michael Vidler was their lawyer, but maybe they lost touch once their job was done?

 

[dotr]

Flying without a man: The mysterious case of Dina Ali

A Saudi woman's attempt to flee home without a male guardian sparked an online campaign to help her.

www.bbc.com

2017
''A trip taken by a young Saudi woman - and her unwilling journey back to her home country - opened up a debate about Saudi laws which require females to get permission from male relatives before they travel or undertake a host of everyday tasks.
Frightened and in an unfamiliar country, Dina Ali Lasloom approached a stranger in Manila airport.
Lasloom, a 24-year-old Saudi woman, was attempting to leave her family in Kuwait and intended to seek asylum in Australia. But after being stopped in transit in the Philippines, she faced being sent back to Saudi Arabia.

'They're here'​

The stranger she approached in the airport was Meagan Khan, a Canadian woman. In just a few hours, the two formed a close bond.
Khan says that Lasloom told her that she learned that her uncles were on their way to find her in Manila. Lasloom recorded a plea for help on Khan's phone.
"Dina was sitting across from me eating a sandwich and I was looking at her and I saw a change in her face.

"She just completely lost every single emotion and a completely terrified look appeared in her face. She said 'Meagan they're here.'
"I said 'What?'
"She said 'Meagan! Meagan, send the video, they're here.' And I turned and saw two men and a woman walking towards us and I said to her 'Are those your uncles?'
"And she said: 'Yes.'"
She was put on a flight to Riyadh, but not before her video appeal went viral on Twitter. The hashtag "Save Dina Ali" began trending on 11 April, before she had even arrived back in Saudi Arabia.
That was the last that Khan and women's rights activists heard from her.''

Many Saudi women are wealthy, well-educated and told they have everything, but when they disobey their male guardians, life can be more like a Handmaid’s Tale dystopia.

 

[chimpface]

Could someone in the Saudi community have been paid to kill them by someone back in Saudi?

 

[Charlot123]

Flying without a man: The mysterious case of Dina Ali

A Saudi woman's attempt to flee home without a male guardian sparked an online campaign to help her.

www.bbc.com

2017
''A trip taken by a young Saudi woman - and her unwilling journey back to her home country - opened up a debate about Saudi laws which require females to get permission from male relatives before they travel or undertake a host of everyday tasks.
Frightened and in an unfamiliar country, Dina Ali Lasloom approached a stranger in Manila airport.
Lasloom, a 24-year-old Saudi woman, was attempting to leave her family in Kuwait and intended to seek asylum in Australia. But after being stopped in transit in the Philippines, she faced being sent back to Saudi Arabia.

'They're here'​

The stranger she approached in the airport was Meagan Khan, a Canadian woman. In just a few hours, the two formed a close bond.
Khan says that Lasloom told her that she learned that her uncles were on their way to find her in Manila. Lasloom recorded a plea for help on Khan's phone.
"Dina was sitting across from me eating a sandwich and I was looking at her and I saw a change in her face.

"She just completely lost every single emotion and a completely terrified look appeared in her face. She said 'Meagan they're here.'
"I said 'What?'
"She said 'Meagan! Meagan, send the video, they're here.' And I turned and saw two men and a woman walking towards us and I said to her 'Are those your uncles?'
"And she said: 'Yes.'"
She was put on a flight to Riyadh, but not before her video appeal went viral on Twitter. The hashtag "Save Dina Ali" began trending on 11 April, before she had even arrived back in Saudi Arabia.
That was the last that Khan and women's rights activists heard from her.''

Many Saudi women are wealthy, well-educated and told they have everything, but when they disobey their male guardians, life can be more like a Handmaid’s Tale dystopia.

Well, the Philippines dropped the ball. It was Manila. There is a way to deal with it - don’t fly Saudia or Philippines airlines. Saudia is not an issue; Philippines pride on their airline service - a small drop in revenues and they will change the way they handle such situations.

 

[Dotta]

Could someone in the Saudi community have been paid to kill them by someone back in Saudi?

Maybe the man with AVO was the 1st choice?
He needed Arabic interpreter in Court.
And then the sisters went into hiding.
No surprise they were terrified during the wellness check

 

[Charlot123]

It might be an assumption made (in Yemen) that they had renounced their faith simply based on their moving away and maybe not covering - did they wear hijabs when they went out or were they dressed in western clothes?

* I mean to say that they themselves may not have renounced islam as a faith but their behaviour, from devout Yemeni perspective, would indicate they have.

There are several articles repeating it. I think they did it on Twitter.

Desperate and alone, Saudi sisters risk everything to flee oppression | CNN

The night they fled, Reem and Rawan didn't dare sleep. For weeks, they had helped their mother organize a family holiday, feigning excitement at the possibility of two weeks away from Riyadh, but knowing that if all went to plan, they'd never go back.

edition.cnn.com

The problem looks very different now. Apostasy in Saudi Arabia is punishable by death. Whether the sisters really did it, or the newspapers merely repeated one another, is of no difference. For this alone, they could be killed.

 

[Charlot123]

Could someone in the Saudi community have been paid to kill them by someone back in Saudi?

Judging by Khashoggi’s case, the Saudis are horribly clumsy when killing abroad. Even the Saudi community in Australia would have been messy. JMO. Easier to pay local thugs or druggies, they could do the same. One obvious thing, the sisters had a pattern. They liked coffee and drinks. To put some poison into their colas when they were away? I don’t know how much toxicology tests for? And how much stays, one month after people die, in their bodies?

Still wonder what concerned the plumber… Or, could the killers have used ventilation?

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

Judging by Khashoggi’s case, the Saudis are horribly clumsy when killing abroad. Even Saudi community in Australia would have been messy. JMO. Easier to pay local thugs or druggies, they could do the same. One obvious thing, the sisters had a pattern. They liked coffee and drinks. To put some poison into their colas when they were away? I don’t know how much toxicology tests for? And how much stays one month after people die?

Still wonder what concerned the plumber… Or, could the killers have used ventilation?

Maybe their vents were tampered with or some kind of gas was used? Or - if they believed their food deliveries were being tampered with maybe it was poisoning? But there'd be evidence.

Did they have gas appliances? People who die of carbon monoxide poisoning are often found asleep in bed for various reasons but mostly as it's a heavy gas that sinks below air so people feel sleepy, lie down to sleep, the carbon monoxide becomes denser and they never wake.

 

[Dotta]

There are several articles repeating it. I think they did it on Twitter.

Desperate and alone, Saudi sisters risk everything to flee oppression | CNN

The night they fled, Reem and Rawan didn't dare sleep. For weeks, they had helped their mother organize a family holiday, feigning excitement at the possibility of two weeks away from Riyadh, but knowing that if all went to plan, they'd never go back.

edition.cnn.com

The problem looks very different now. Apostasy in Saudi Arabia is punishable by death. Whether the sisters really did it, or the newspapers merely repeated one another, is of no difference. For this alone, they could be killed.

How extraordinary that their story before arriving to Australia was described in detail by Press.

But, sadly, it is not concluded with "Happy End".

 

[dotr]

Rebel by Rahaf Mohammed review – escape from Saudi Arabia

The raw tale of a young woman’s desperate dash for freedom articulates the pain and oppression that remain the lot of many of her contemporaries in the Middle East kingdom

www.theguardian.com

14 Mar 2022 rbbm
''In a debut book, aptly titled Rebel, Mohammed details a confused and often painful childhood that had no place for a free spirit such as hers. Indoctrinated into Wahabist beliefs that offered no room for critical thinking and viewed emancipation as a subversion punishable by stoning or death, she was miserable from an early age. And even more so when she caught glimpses of how other girls lived: on trips to Turkey and Dubai, she saw foreigners, the curves of women wearing dresses, and found music and laughter. She dared to dream that the same freedoms could be hers.


As a teenager, she began to test her boundaries at home in Saudi Arabia. More beatings from her brothers followed. She was ostracised; and further tormented by her own blooming sexuality. Then one night, on a taxi ride home, she was raped. The driver rapist drove off knowing he would face no consequences. If her ordeal was known, she would be blamed for travelling without a guardian and possibly cursed by a family already out of patience with her. Soon afterwards, Rahaf made the decision to leave.''

''In nearly 300 pages of simple but effective prose, Rahaf Mohammed turns her journey into one that vast numbers of women in Saudi Arabia will relate to. There is nothing pretentious about her writing, and nor does there need to be. Lifting the veil on the repression of women – even in upper-middle-class families such as hers – is rare in the kingdom, a place in which dissent, towards the state and family structures, is not tolerated.''

 

[Via Marple]

FYI Human rights lawyer Michael Vidler has closed down his office in Hong Kong and left the city, earlier this year.
After years fighting for the ‘little guy’, Hong Kong crackdown forces UK lawyer to flee

Just so that any vulnerable foreign person knows. Passing through Hong Kong these days is not a good idea, there won't even be a human rights lawyer brave enough to take their case..

MOO

 

[Dotta]

Well,
if the sisters were indeed murdered, the perp/s didn't leave any traces it seems.

And after 2 months of being dead - can toxicology exams really find the cause?

 

[dotr]

Random musings..
Maybe like many females all around the world who have to flee due to DV. many make it, while others do not and land in another situation similar or worse than the one they want to escape, like unwittingly running into the arms of another abuser, such as a new bf?

Somehow i feel that if close sisters were near death, whether it was suicide or accidental, wouldn't they want to be in the same room and die together?

A little surprised that they would choose an apt. with bedroom accessible balconies if they were afraid of something/one, unless they chose it for that reason- two extra ''escape routes''.
speculation, imo, fwiw. rbbm.

Stuff

www.stuff.co.nz

''While the Persian Gulf state has eased some restrictions on women’s freedoms in recent years – they can now drive, vote and appear in public without their hijab – many still flee and seek asylum because of domestic violence and abuse.''

''In early June, their bodies were discovered in separate bedrooms when the sheriff visited about overdue rent. A floor plan shows both women’s bedrooms had access to balconies, which were visible to traffic-clogged Canterbury Road.''

''In 2018, the elder sister, Asra, took out an Apprehended Domestic Violence Order, but it was withdrawn and dismissed.''

''Both sisters bedrooms opened onto a balcony that overlooked Canterbury main road, in Australia.''

 

[Charlot123]

FYI Human rights lawyer Michael Vidler has closed down his office in Hong Kong and left the city, earlier this year.
After years fighting for the ‘little guy’, Hong Kong crackdown forces UK lawyer to flee

Just so that any vulnerable foreign person knows. Passing through Hong Kong these days is not a good idea, there won't even be a human rights lawyer brave enough to take their case..

MOO

So very sad; it happened in April. Also, over 60 civil society groups in Hong Kong disbanded since 2019 ((