Australia- Two sisters in their 20s found dead inside Sydney unit had been there lengthy time, Suspicious deaths, June 2022

[imstilla.grandma]

They might have even been using a portable heater with a gas canister and no venting?

Why were they ordering food and not buying or preparing their own I wonder?

I’ve been wondering where they were ordering food from. Was it always the same place? Was it usually the same delivery person? Did they order by phone? Were their meals left outside their door? How were these meals paid for?

 

[Charlot123]

I agree. Two different sets of sisters, similar stories. I think it’s a case of lazy reporting by media sources like the Daily Mail that fail to fact check. It sounds like some reporters in Yemen picked up on the story of the two girls stuck in Hong Kong who had ”renounced Islam and became atheists” and assumed it was the same sisters who were found in June in Sydney. The Daily Mail ran with the story and people here just took it for fact. I’m choosing to believe the version of the story that is being reported by more reputable media sources.

Possibly, laziness on behalf of the DM.

Reportedly, per Al Jazeera and other sources, the Hong Kong sisters accepted the aliases of Rehm and Reem. Their original names are unknown. However, the DM reported that Rehm and Reem were their original names and Asra and Amaal were the new names they took in Australia. Also, they said that their real surnames were al-Sehri. It is a mess, and it would be probably very easy for DM to figure out if "the Canterbury sisters" are the same as "the Hong Kong sisters", or not, by calling Michael Vidler who closed his practice in Hong Kong, and moved back to Britain, and ask: do the sisters found in Canterbury look like his former clients, or not? In case of a NO, nothing prevents him to say, I never saw these women. Yes might be more complicated, but in case of a No, the other Saudi couple is owed privacy.

 

[Witness 28]

Well,
I guess the family feared huge international scandal.

As they are "well connected" as was reported, it might have colossal negative impact on the whole family.

MOO

Looks like both sisters. escaped Saudi Arabia to save their lives, maybe a honour killing. Sad, how a ,family could do that to two sisters

 

[Waverider]

Asylum seekers receiving an eviction notice.
Something does not add up here.

The chances of that happening to 2 young adult, attractive, female Saudi asylum seekers in fear of their lives, is incredibly low.

Murder or self-harm is way more likely.

They would be refugees by this point on bridging visas, with the right to work and study etc and no obligation to inform landlords of their residency status.

Asylum seekers definitely wouldn’t receive an eviction notice, mainly because they are provided with accommodation / funds until their visas are approved and they can start working.

 

[Laughing]

They might have been working at night and taking classes during the day. I believe it was reported that they spoke decent English. Could they have been doing help desk/call center type work from their apartment at night while attending classes during the day? Then came Covid lockdowns and classes were probably moved to virtual as well. Which led to further isolation.

I‘m leaning towards the dominant sister having mental health problems which resulted in murder-suicide. Or, something along the lines of shared delusions leading to some kind of accidental suicide.

Seems to me that plain old depression could easily be a factor here.

Maybe the two young ladies were raised in luxury, with servants, and had insufficient life skills?

Knew they wanted out of the repressive system, but weren't prepared to really take care of themselves, really Adult in a new place with new systems?

And then the global pandemic came to the party.

Recipe for disaster, seems to me, with or without a gas leak or fumes which would make everything worse.

Certainly possible that they recognized/thought they recognized someone from SA, adding to the downward spiral.

Is there a time limit on the relocation services, their visas, anything like that?

They needed a host family, imho, but we Websleuths Aunties & Uncles can't be everywhere, right?

Re: fumes. I was driving our car to the dealer for scheduled service once, and a line in the air conditioner cracked. By the time I reached the dealership about an hour's drive away, I had mild glycol poisoning (very mild.) I just knew the car smelled a little funny, and I had a headache. Service tech got the hood open on the car, saw the cracked line, and came into the waiting area to find me. He gave me 2 bottles of water, told me to finish both within the next hour, the dealership called my husband and gave me a letter for my doctor's office in case any symptoms persisted & I needed further treatment.

This breathing fumes for 45 minutes, the problem discovered by the service tech quickly. If the ladies breathed fumes for weeks, who knows?

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[dotr]

This article referencing the SA two sisters who were found deceased in NY, might suggest that it is best not to apply for political asylum....
rbbm, imo, speculation.

Father of Saudi sisters found dead in New York rejects suicide finding

The father of two young Saudi women whose bodies were found bound together in New York last October has dismissed a police assessment that they committed suicide and said marks he saw on their faces indicate they were beaten before their deaths.

www.reuters.com

2019
''RIYADH (Reuters) - The father of two young Saudi women whose bodies were found bound together in New York last October has dismissed a police assessment that they committed suicide and said marks he saw on their faces indicate they were beaten before their deaths.

Tala Farea, 16, and Rotana Farea, 23, who had previously been living in Virginia, were found along the rocky Manhattan shore of the Hudson River with duct tape around their waist and ankles. A New York Police Department official has said they likely entered the water alive and were said to have preferred suicide over returning to Saudi Arabia.

Their mother told detectives the day before the bodies were discovered that the Saudi Embassy in Washington had ordered the family to leave the United States because the daughters had applied for political asylum, the Associated Press reported in October, citing police. An embassy spokeswoman denied that at the time.''

 

[realanastasia]

Police Seek Help in Deaths of Two Saudi Sisters in Australia

Their bodies lay undiscovered for a month. Weeks later, the police still know little about the women or what happened to them.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Charlot123]

Well,
I guess the family feared huge international scandal.

As they are "well connected" as was reported, it might have colossal negative impact on the whole family.

MOO

I googled the name Al-Sehli
It is mostly Saudian, and this version is not super-common; I found a well-known businessman and a football player among them. One wonders if it is the transliteration of Al-Shehri tribe (two 9/11 hijackers had the name of Al-Shehri, but well-known doctors have it, too); won't it be nice to have Websleuthers adept in non-Indo-European, Arabic and Hebrew, languages, to explain meaning of some words and names to us?

Al-Sehli Surname Origin, Meaning & Last Name History

Learn the fascinating origin of the Al-Sehli surname; its meaning & distribution. Unlock your family history in the largest database of last names.

forebears.io

 

[ClaireNC]

Seems to me that plain old depression could easily be a factor here.

Maybe the two young ladies were raised in luxury, with servants, and had insufficient life skills?

Knew they wanted out of the repressive system, but weren't prepared to really take care of themselves, really Adult in a new place with new systems?

And then the global pandemic came to the party.

Recipe for disaster, seems to me, with or without a gas leak or fumes which would make everything worse.

Certainly possible that they recognized/thought they recognized someone from SA, adding to the downward spiral.

Is there a time limit on the relocation services, their visas, anything like that?

They needed a host family, imho, but we Websleuths Aunties & Uncles can't be everywhere, right?

Re: fumes. I was driving our car to the dealer for scheduled service once, and a line in the air conditioner cracked. By the time I reached the dealership about an hour's drive away, I had mild glycol poisoning (very mild.) I just knew the car smelled a little funny, and I had a headache. Service tech got the hood open on the car, saw the cracked line, and came into the waiting area to find me. He gave me 2 bottles of water, told me to finish both within the next hour, the dealership called my husband and gave me a letter for my doctor's office in case any symptoms persisted & I needed further treatment.

This breathing fumes for 45 minutes, the problem discovered by the service tech quickly. If the ladies breathed fumes for weeks, who knows?

jmho ymmv lrr

Yes! These girls have done/been through so much in the last 5 years, definitely a recipe for disaster. The Covid pandemic making everything harder. It’s possible that the support network they had in the first few years broke down due to pandemic restrictions. Here in the US, a lot of volunteer organizations stopped operating at the peak of pandemic. I‘m assuming it’s been like that everywhere. The groups that work with refugees and the process of seeking asylum could rely on volunteers.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

carbon monoxide doesn’t smell - it’s called ‘the silent killer’

if there were improper equipment / venting then it would need scrutinising by a qualified engineer

Yes agree, if there was some alternate heater it would be obvious to see it even if it had run out of gas by then

Carbon monoxide does turn the skin a unique color, according to a show I watched several years ago. There's no way I can find it or link it. So, I'll add IMOO.

 

[Laughing]

Carbon monoxide does turn the skin a unique color, according to a show I watched several years ago. There's no way I can find it or link it. So, I'll add IMOO.

Here's hoping the coroner/ME can tell after the interval these ladies remains awaited discovery....

jmho ymmv lrr

 

[dotr]

How Can You Know If You Have Carbon Monoxide Poisoning?

Carbon monoxide poisoning symptoms are vague and hard to distinguish from many other medical conditions.

www.verywellhealth.com

May 05, 2022 rbbm.

''Rare Symptoms​

A deep red, flushed skin color (cherry red) is the one telltale indicator of carbon monoxide poisoning. It comes from high levels of carboxyhemoglobin in the blood.

Unfortunately, it is often a postmortem examination that reveals such a bright red coloring. The level of carbon monoxide in the blood required to get the skin to that color is so high that it is nearly always fatal.

So extremely flushed skin is too late a sign to be useful in determining if a patient is suffering from carbon monoxide poisoning.

To be treated successfully, carbon monoxide poisoning must be recognized long before the patient turns bright red.''

''Do low levels of carbon monoxide poisoning look similar to other conditions?

Yes, low levels of carbon monoxide poisoning can look similar to other conditions like the flu. Low levels of CO breathed in over an extended period of time can cause flu-like symptoms such as headache, nausea, and fatigue. One clue these symptoms may be associated with carbon monoxide is a lack of fever.2''

 

[Charlot123]

Here's hoping the coroner/ME can tell after the interval these ladies remains awaited discovery....

jmho ymmv lrr

Bright-pink lividity would be a sign. However, there is postmortem CO production in bodies, so I don’t know if it would be possible to determine anything at this point with a definite margin of certainty.

 

[whiterhino]

TBH the most toxic fumes that they were likely exposed to at that apartment, were either from Canterbury Road (the main road below), or from the BP gas station nect door It is a very busy road. And the apartment is on the first floor.

They might close all windows though at night in order to sleep better. From the noise mostly.

I can't see any gas outlet in the rooms or living areas from the photos. In Australia the usual gas heaters sold have to be connected to a gas outlet to work. But there are ducted air conditioning outlets, so I would guess that might be switched on, on a chilly night in May.

Never heard of anyone dying from poisoning by ducted air conditioning, but I haven't looked this up.

I posted a link a few pages back related to Freon poisoning (the coolant in air conditioning). Bacteria and toxic mold can also build up inside the A/C. I'm not sure if this applies to larger more commercial units or "central air" type systems? I also don't know if the cases of Freon poisoning came from exposure to the liquid itself or from inhaling toxic, bad air.

If it were poison from food or a faulty AC unit wouldn't that have been discovered by now?

@GoBuckeyes IIRC the skin turns bright pink/red due to oxygen levels. I believe cyanide causes skin to take on a blueish tint from lack of oxygen.

You'd think the moment either of them had these symptoms they would have called 911? Not gone into separate rooms.

@chimpface Appreciate your explanation. I went off thinking maybe the sisters were mixed up in some dangerous business that potentially led to their deaths.

I agree with the last post. In terms of two sisters being somewhat isolated and dependent on each other it would be easy for them to fall into some kind of "shared delusion" or to feed off/into each others fears. Between the two, there must have been one that was more dominant. Isn't that typically the way with siblings?

 

[Dotta]

The sisters must have been brave, determined, clever and iron willed and lucid to organise such an escape successfully.
Not everybody can pull such a stunt.

They even got rid of the (violent?) boyfriend and slapped him with AVO!!!
In a foreign country.

Does it sound like somebody with anxiety and delusions?

I do not think so.

MOO

 

[dotr]

UPDATED: 12:45 EDT, 31 July 2022 rbbm.

Major police backflip in baffling case of Saudi sisters found dead

Daily Mail Australia understands their photos and identities were only released last week after the coroner over-ruled the family's wishes - almost two months later.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''For weeks, NSW Police assured media the sisters 'well-connected' family in the Saudi kingdom were 'cooperating' and 'helping' with the investigation.

But it has since been alleged that the family blocked detectives from releasing photographs of the women as part of a public appeal to shed light on the baffling case.

Police confirmed to Daily Mail Australia their photos and identities were released in consultation with the coroner - not the sisters' family - almost two months after their bodies were found.''

''Other bizarre inconsistencies have also arisen during the investigation.

Police were unable to explain a delay on the release of toxicology reports which usually takes four to six weeks, despite previously insisting the findings were being 'fast-tracked'.

'That is a matter for the coroner,' police said in response our inquiries. ''

''Their rental agent Jay Hu revealed the women were originally 'good' tenants when they first moved in two years ago and had proof of 'ample' savings before falling behind on rent earlier this year.

'They stopped paying rent, so my colleague contacted them … they said the money would be coming soon,' he told the Daily Telegraph.

'But it still didn't come … a few more weeks went by and still not paid.'

 

[NeverPersonal]

<modsnip> I personally suspect trauma-induced mental illness due to the difficulties they've endured, and not an honor killing. We will see as news moves forward.

 

[ElGato]

They would be refugees by this point on bridging visas, with the right to work and study etc and no obligation to inform landlords of their residency status.

Asylum seekers definitely wouldn’t receive an eviction notice, mainly because they are provided with accommodation / funds until their visas are approved and they can start working.

So, is your conclusion that they were not asylum seekers? Or that the details about the eviction order are incorrect?

It seems to me, the fact they'd been served an eviction notice and apparently did nothing about it, but died 1 month later, is extremely pertinent. A massive coincidence if something else happened to them, such as CO2 poisoning, or homicide.

Also, I am a bit confused: what landlord calls police, when they have served an eviction notice two months prior, and there have been no signs of presence of the occupants for over a month?

Don't landlords have the right to enter a flat when there's no one apparently there? Surely landlords aren't always calling police when they want to enter a rental? (It seems unlikely the door was barricaded, no mention of police breaking down the door)...

Just wondering whether landlord had been in the flat before contacting police.

JMO

 

[Observe_dont_Absorb]

UPDATED: 12:45 EDT, 31 July 2022 rbbm.

Major police backflip in baffling case of Saudi sisters found dead

Daily Mail Australia understands their photos and identities were only released last week after the coroner over-ruled the family's wishes - almost two months later.

www.dailymail.co.uk

''For weeks, NSW Police assured media the sisters 'well-connected' family in the Saudi kingdom were 'cooperating' and 'helping' with the investigation.

But it has since been alleged that the family blocked detectives from releasing photographs of the women as part of a public appeal to shed light on the baffling case.

Police confirmed to Daily Mail Australia their photos and identities were released in consultation with the coroner - not the sisters' family - almost two months after their bodies were found.''

''Other bizarre inconsistencies have also arisen during the investigation.

Police were unable to explain a delay on the release of toxicology reports which usually takes four to six weeks, despite previously insisting the findings were being 'fast-tracked'.

'That is a matter for the coroner,' police said in response our inquiries. ''

''Their rental agent Jay Hu revealed the women were originally 'good' tenants when they first moved in two years ago and had proof of 'ample' savings before falling behind on rent earlier this year.

'They stopped paying rent, so my colleague contacted them … they said the money would be coming soon,' he told the Daily Telegraph.

'But it still didn't come … a few more weeks went by and still not paid.'

maybe stopped paying as they were dissatisfied with some aspect of the flat maybe ? Some people stop paying rent in the false notion it will force the landlord to respond to a repair.

 

[GoBuckeyes]

So, is your conclusion that they were not asylum seekers? Or that the details about the eviction order are incorrect?

It seems to me, the fact they'd been served an eviction notice and apparently did nothing about it, but died 1 month later, is extremely pertinent. A massive coincidence if something else happened to them, such as CO2 poisoning, or homicide.

Also, I am a bit confused: what landlord calls police, when they have served an eviction notice two months prior, and there have been no signs of presence of the occupants for over a month?

Don't landlords have the right to enter a flat when there's no one apparently there? Surely landlords aren't always calling police when they want to enter a rental? (It seems unlikely the door was barricaded, no mention of police breaking down the door)...

Just wondering whether landlord had been in the flat before contacting police.

JMO

Excellent observation!