Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #10

[ninij9]

While several people on this thread resent the introduction of a legal analysis of the evidence, there are some posters who are interested. When GT walks free, and he will be acquitted, if not by this court then by the Court of Appeal, there will be devastation on this thread with posters commenting that they can't understand how he was acquitted.

I am hoping with my comments that there might be at least a bit of understanding of how he will be acquitted after proper consideration of the admissible evidence.

I get defensive of suggestions that if he gets acquitted it will be because the legal players are lazy, incompetent or corrupt.

Good post. I think so many of us are very perplexed and frustrated by the weak ineffectual case brought against GT.

It is likely he will be acquitted. I hate to say it. It won't be the jury's fault either. It will be because the prosecution failed miserably to produce the evidence it needed to. What I don't understand is that the judge, upon closing, told the jury to focus on those crucial 6 minutes, then all but tied their hands in how they should interpret it.

What a grave injustice, a sad, sad predicament, as I know in my heart exactly what this did that night. And probably so does the jury. Still I hope against hope....

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[Freya1977]

I see.

What do you think he was about to do?

I wouldn't know, but I highly doubt involving the police (based on his previous run ins with them) would have been on the list.

 

[barcode]

I've asked 3 times. He won't answer me but continues to assert that he knows our gender. Lol

Don't you know your flower avatar gives it away?

 

[CleverKnot]

Oh yeah, with Tostee's past experience with police and all, he just respects the hell out of them. No. That is the least likely outcome. Nor did he want her calling them because ... he stole her phone so she couldnt!

Yet idiotically puts that very same woman screaming, out on a balcony at 2 am in the morning so half the neighbors will call the police.

 

[ak19861981]

I would be very interested to see what Justice Lucy McCallum (who presided over the Gittany balcony case) would say to a jury in this case. Or what judgement she alone would make if analyzing the evidence presented to the court.
There was 69 unrecorded seconds between Gittany's assault and Lisa Harnums fall to her death. Justice McCallum had a theory for what occurred in those 69 seconds and also had theories for what was occurring in the mind of Simon Gittany.
This case has been handled completely differently.

 

[CleverKnot]

That is what a reasonable person would have done. I highly doubt that is what Gable was planning, based on his actions after her death.

At that point, any sort of nefarious plans he may have had were moot.

The neighbors were immediately alerted to a woman screaming on a balcony at 2 am in the morning. What a daft master manipulator he was.

 

[Freya1977]

Don't you know your flower avatar gives it away?

Your barcode is definitely female. [emoji14]

Well, actually I've been wrong here before, which is why I know you can't assume to know anything about someone from their username!

 

[ak19861981]

Yet idiotically puts that very same woman screaming, out on a balcony at 2 am in the morning so half the neighbors will call the police.

But an angry, vengeful man hell bent on punishment might put a woman on a balcony ledge at 2am in the heat of the moment considering he had made many references to that through the course of the night.

 

[CleverKnot]

No, I won't be putting together a legal argument in this thread, it's quite off topic. But I promise you this: if you find me a single documented instance in which someone has been driven to suicide wholly by one misinterpreted innocuous comment, I will PM you case studies relevant to all your other scenarios and retract my assertion that it was a straw man. But let's not take this thread any further off course.

So during the jury deliberations, it is off topic to discuss where the threshold of personal responsibility begins and ends?

Discussing the very thing the jury is discussing is somehow relevant, don't you think?

 

[CleverKnot]

Let's say she had assaulted him and he was in fear of his safety. Putting her on the balcony makes the least amount of sense as he'd have to come in contact with her again to leave the apartment. Putting her out the door makes the most amount of sense. He was pissed off at her, but he was in no way fearful of being harmed.

Not if the door is 20 feet away, around the couch, past the kitchen cabinet, down a narrow hallway, with a deadbolt and doorknob to open.

Good luck maintaining a peaceful restraint through all of that.

 

[ninij9]

Well I for one don't resent the legal analysis... I apreciate the education. And while I do think he'll "walk free" I don't think he'll get very far. He seems determined to cut off his own legs. So enamored of himself already, imagine how unstoppable he will feel when he literally gets away with murder. I suspect he'll suffer a similar fate to that of OJ Simpson. Jmo

Hopefully no one else has to die before that happens.

I think of the OJ syndrome as well. Good analysis. Sad though, because at what cost will he be finally locked away?

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[jessicalouise]

Yet idiotically puts that very same woman screaming, out on a balcony at 2 am in the morning so half the neighbors will call the police.

Well he's not the sharpest tool in the shed. Or does that need to put in dot point to spell it out?

 

[CleverKnot]

Common sense would be that you don't go back into the same room as the man who just choked you and threw you out half dressed onto a balcony. Common sense says avoid that person at all costs.

So you wouldn't scream for someone to call the police the second you were on that balcony? You'd try the rock climbing option first?

Which is more commonsensical?

 

[TheOtherChristina]

So during the jury deliberations, it is off topic to discuss where the threshold of personal responsibility begins and ends?

Discussing the very thing the jury is discussing is somehow relevant, don't you think?

I don't think the jury is likely to be discussing honking, yelling "fire," or bullying to suicide. Frankly, at this point, I would wager that they're wondering how much longer they have to sit in the jury room before the judge will accept their inability to agree on a verdict and send them home.

 

[jessicalouise]

Not if the door is 20 feet away, around the couch, past the kitchen cabinet, down a narrow hallway, with a deadbolt and doorknob to open.

Good luck maintaining a peaceful restraint through all of that.

We've all seen the photos of the apartment and it's tiny.

Who said anything about peaceful restraint? If he wanted her out, he can grab her by the wrist with her hand behind her back, take her to the door and push her out.

I've done the exact same thing when a 6'2 drunk footballer started getting disrespectful with my property in my apartment. Except GT has far more strength/height/weight on WW and so could have gotten her out even more effectively.

 

[CleverKnot]

Ha, it's also entirely possible, maybe even factually correct that he'd try to call his lawyer and order a pizza

Indeed.

However, given the fact an angry screaming woman was now on his outdoor balcony at 2 am in the morning, the police would have arrived at his door, long before the pizza.

 

[Ausgirl]

I don't think the jury is likely to be discussing honking, yelling "fire," or bullying to suicide. Frankly, at this point, I would wager that they're wondering how much longer they have to sit in the jury room before the judge will accept their inability to agree on a verdict and send them home.

That's another thing.... It's been HOW many hours now?

 

[Bohemian]

Since you brought it up, yes it is interesting.

• the other people in the car chose to be in the car with him
• they were at the concert with him in Noosa, and they knew he was drunk. they were drunk too , they designated him as their driver.
• if they deemed his driving to be inappropriate, they could have made him pull over and exit the vehicle.

So do you see the parallel? Actions and responsibility - had they crashed the passengers would have born a large percentage of responsibility for electing to be driven by a drunk person.

Similar actions here - refusal to leave when ordered to do so is an abrogation of responsibility. Seriously assaulting someone in their home with a heavy metal object is an abrogation of responsibility. And so on.

So you made good point. Thank you.

Yes, the defence of a coward.

'It's not my fault/responsibility [insert authority figure here].' *points figurative finger* 'He/she/they did it. Not me.'

I remember hearing my children say similar words when they were bickering but I think their ages were in single digits and they were experiencing the normal narcissistic stage of childhood.

 

[TheOtherChristina]

Not if the door is 20 feet away, around the couch, past the kitchen cabinet, down a narrow hallway, with a deadbolt and doorknob to open.

Good luck maintaining a peaceful restraint through all of that.

From what I can tell from photos, the door was a straight shot and very close. How many feet total do you think he could have carried her?

I think of the OJ syndrome as well. Good analysis. Sad though, because at what cost will he be finally locked away?

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Heartbreaking, isn't it? This is what bothers me the most about the prospect of him going free.

So you wouldn't scream for someone to call the police the second you were on that balcony? You'd try the rock climbing option first?

Which is more commonsensical?

It depends on how much time I thought I had before he came back outside and what kind of mood I expected him to be in.

 

[Oddsocks]

Not if the door is 20 feet away, around the couch, past the kitchen cabinet, down a narrow hallway, with a deadbolt and doorknob to open.

Good luck maintaining a peaceful restraint through all of that.

Wouldn't it even make more sense for him to lock himself somewhere? Why not do that if he was afraid of Warriena?