Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #3

[possumheart]

Oooooohhhh yeah, SouthAussie - very true! :seeya:

He certainly never factored in his quality posts on the bb forum and how much of his previous predatory, rapey behaviour they would reveal.........:facepalm:

Unfortunately, looking at his peers, and his bb forum contributions, I fear he thinks that predatory/'rapey' behaviour is 'normal'/'alpha'.

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

I personally suspect you've summed it up SouthAussie. This is about the defense team imo - if they were able to ask for suppression and didn't, then surely it is a tactic.

I just can't believe that's merely shoddy work - surely seeking a suppression order would be part of "Defense Lawyering 101"?

It's in Tostee's interests to have this info out there as it has been - as then they have a valid argument against him being unable to receive a fair trial.

I always suspected it was a defense ploy - but a risky one......they can't just set that as a precedence for a mistrial, as then every law firm will be releasing such private info straight up, as in this case.

So let's see what happens.

I just hope justice is served for Warriena, regardless of media sideshows and legal wranglings. That's the important thing.

Lawyers are governed by a strict code of ethics, and if there were an investigation launched, and lawyers themselves were found to be responsible, it would spell the demise of their career as this would definitely be classified as contempt. It is a great theory to throw out there, but I really doubt it is the lawyers that allowed the documents to be leaked and not seek suppression. Too much at risk for them.

 

[SouthAussie]

Lawyers are governed by a strict code of ethics, and if there were an investigation launched, and lawyers themselves were found to be responsible, it would spell the demise of their career as this would definitely be classified as contempt. It is a great theory to throw out there, but I really doubt it is the lawyers that allowed the documents to be leaked and not seek suppression. Too much at risk for them.

Or .... they could get a slap on the wrist and be told not to do it again.

Police are also governed by a strict code of ethics ... and slaps on the wrist are usually their consequence too.

They all usually do their job to the best of their ability, and the occasional slip-up is generally not a matter for huge consequences imo.

As Ausgirl said before, as the leaks tend to favour Tostee, this matter probably won't be pursued too much by O'Gorman, now that he is apparently the defense lawyer.

 

[possumheart]

Or .... they could get a slap on the wrist and be told not to do it again.

Police are also governed by a strict code of ethics ... and slaps on the wrist are usually their consequence too.

They all usually do their job to the best of their ability, and the occasional slip-up is generally not a matter for huge consequences imo.

As Ausgirl said before, as the leaks tend to favour Tostee, this matter probably won't be pursued too much by O'Gorman, now that he is apparently the defense lawyer.

It will be interesting to see his angle.

 

[SouthAussie]

It will be interesting to see his angle.

I agree, it will be super-interesting to see how this all pans out. Guess we better stick around for the next year or two to see. :floorlaugh:

As long as there is justice for Warriena, I'm okay with it all. :justice:

As I've mentioned before, I don't have an issue with the release of past behaviours prior to trial (as in the US). We all get judged by prior behaviours in so many other things ... job applications, driving offences, tenancy agreements ... I don't know why criminal history/behaviour should be the exception to the rule. And I think we should allow the juries to act with intelligence, and follow the judges' rulings and guidance in determining an outcome. But that is just my take on it. :dunno:

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Thanks for that info, Slinki.

I personally doubt the veracity of an already existing official diagnosis of austism - the language used (as we've discussed earlier in the thread so I won't go over it again) was not that of a mental health professional.

I'm referring to when this case goes to trial - and we do indeed get more info coming out, as we always do - that any diagnoses made since his arrest will be discussed.

Although, in other cases I'm following on WS - Morgan Huxley in Sydney and the Adamson family in Melbourne - the accused killers were both diagnosed with Aspergers and that info has been released into the public domain prior to trial.

However GoddessIsisRising, if the psychiatric evaluation does somehow place him on the autism spectrum, what is your take on the implications that brings into the whole case, as hinted by Justice Mullins on 8 September?

Referring to the article linked below-
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...r-bail-hearing-adjourned-20140908-10dqg1.html
Quoting from the article:
"Justice Mullins requested more details about Mr Tostee's autism, a condition he was diagnosed with some years ago.
"It just struck me that it may not be an irrelevant matter," she said.
"The real shape of the crown case is still not clear. There's obviously further investigations in relation to the recording. I'm concerned that [Mr Tostee] seems to have been previously diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum somewhere and that has explained his lack of sociability."

 

[MsAnais]

However GoddessIsisRising, if the psychiatric evaluation does somehow place him on the autism spectrum, what is your take on the implications that brings into the whole case, as hinted by Justice Mullins on 8 September?

Referring to the article linked below-
http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/que...r-bail-hearing-adjourned-20140908-10dqg1.html
Quoting from the article:
"Justice Mullins requested more details about Mr Tostee's autism, a condition he was diagnosed with some years ago.
"It just struck me that it may not be an irrelevant matter," she said.
"The real shape of the crown case is still not clear. There's obviously further investigations in relation to the recording. I'm concerned that [Mr Tostee] seems to have been previously diagnosed as being on the autism spectrum somewhere and that has explained his lack of sociability."

Firstly, if he is indeed diagnosed as being 'on the spectrum' then he is high-functioning Asperger's imo - he is able to maintain paid employment, lives independently and has social relationships with others (as evidenced by the charming TO et al.....).

He is not living in an alternate internal universe, such as the autistic adults I have had dealings with - they have been unable to communicate or maintain eye contact, have rocked their bodies constantly and had specific, repetitive speech patterns......that is not Tostee.

So for me, if he is diagnosed on the spectrum, I don't see it as a mitigating factor that somehow excuses his behaviour......this is not a man living outside of society.

And the clincher is that, as soon as a woman fell to her death from his balcony he RANG HIS LAWYER!!!

That is someone who knows right from wrong, who understands that he will be needing a lawyer as a crime has been committed.

Most people, if a person fell from their balcony, would be beside themselves and run down to the body ASAP, calling 000 as they went.....

His post-fall behaviours suggest to me that any diagnosis is beside the point. He knew right from wrong - he is not therefore legally 'insane'. He was, in fact, extremely calculating in his self-preservation.

So for me personally, any diagnosis is a moot point.

 

[possumheart]

If the dad knew his son's lifestyle and boundary issues (and he must have had a clue, surely) - I wonder if he had worried about the combo of GT and the balcony?

 

[Amee]

Hi again Slinki. What I'm wondering now is WHY the courts made the transcripts available to the press -- when we here in Aus are so used to information being restricted where there's murder charges in place.

Was that an error, on behalf of the court? Who, exactly, was hands-on responsible for its release? If it was not an error or an illegal act by court staff, then we must presume the courts already decided it wouldn't taint the case?

This is an area I know little about, so even speculating is hard. Anyone clearer on what might have gone on, there?

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Sep 7

Justice Mullins informing the court that bail docs are publicly searchable. Says she assumes that's what News Ltd journalists did. #tostee

Justice Mullins says other media outlets have missed the boat. "I've got the file now," she says. #tostee

Judge tells court News Ltd searched the Tostee bail application file. 'That's what you do.' Journalism 101



Kate has a pic of the reciept on her twitter as well. All the court docs we had for GBC were purchased by some lovely WSer's

 

[MsAnais]

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Sep 7

Justice Mullins informing the court that bail docs are publicly searchable. Says she assumes that's what News Ltd journalists did. #tostee

Justice Mullins says other media outlets have missed the boat. "I've got the file now," she says. #tostee

Judge tells court News Ltd searched the Tostee bail application file. 'That's what you do.' Journalism 101



Kate has a pic of the reciept on her twitter as well. All the court docs we had for GBC were purchased by some lovely WSer's

Thanks for clarifying that, Amee :seeya:

 

[Amee]

hopefully the new team get GT's age correct.

Kate Kyriacou @KateKyriacou · Sep 7

Justice Mullins tells lawyer he can't count. "Your client is 28 years old," she informs him. #tostee


Accused Gold Coast balcony killer Gable Tostee has switched lawyers for his fresh bail bid
http://www.goldcoastbulletin.com.au...s-fresh-bail-bid/story-fnj90t7b-1227078279193

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Firstly, if he is indeed diagnosed as being 'on the spectrum' then he is high-functioning Asperger's imo - he is able to maintain paid employment, lives independently and has social relationships with others (as evidenced by the charming TO et al.....).

He is not living in an alternate internal universe, such as the autistic adults I have had dealings with - they have been unable to communicate or maintain eye contact, have rocked their bodies constantly and had specific, repetitive speech patterns......that is not Tostee.

So for me, if he is diagnosed on the spectrum, I don't see it as a mitigating factor that somehow excuses his behaviour......this is not a man living outside of society.

And the clincher is that, as soon as a woman fell to her death from his balcony he RANG HIS LAWYER!!!

That is someone who knows right from wrong, who understands that he will be needing a lawyer as a crime has been committed.

Most people, if a person fell from their balcony, would be beside themselves and run down to the body ASAP, calling 000 as they went.....

His post-fall behaviours suggest to me that any diagnosis is beside the point. He knew right from wrong - he is not therefore legally 'insane'. He was, in fact, extremely calculating in his self-preservation.

So for me personally, any diagnosis is a moot point.

Thank you so much for your reply - much appreciated.

But if someone were to be diagnosed with ASD, they don't ever outgrow it do they? Are you saying that it is possible that some professional got it wrong all those years ago? The Court would not have accepted a diagnosis that was not legitimate, right? With children diagnosed with ASD nowadays, early intervention can do so much for the individual. My understanding is that with the right environment, and guidance, an autistic child can learn coping mechanisms and behaviour/responses to different social situations, etc.

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-s...-a-permanent-incurable-condition-8452847.html

Also dug around, and found this article:

http://www.autismriskmanagement.com/documents/Autism_Criminal_Justice.pdf

The bit about High Functioning ASD individuals is especially interesting. I tried to copy and paste text but failed. It does touch on how an autistic person's behaviour post commitment of an offence can be construed as guilt. Lack of remorse as an example. I get what you say GoddessIsisRising. Calling the lawyer post "someone falling off balcony" is most definitely not the normal person's response. But what if that particular response has been drummed into him to do. Is it not possible that he has a list of "people he can trust" and the Police in particular isn't on his list. What if he was taught that if something happened that made him feel bad/distraught and "uncomfortable"...to always call his lawyer or dad particularly because with his recent brushes with law enforcement? I don't know. I'm just throwing what ifs out there.

 

[MsAnais]

Hey Slinki :seeya:

To be honest, I'm personally not interested in having an ongoing debate/discussion about whether he's got Asperger's or not.

I haven't personally assessed him and we haven't received a definitive statement in MSM (like we have in other WS cases), so we just don't know at this point.

What I do know as a psychologist is that it's not at all difficult to get diagnosed as being on the spectrum in the current climate. As I said earlier on the thread, it's the diagnosis du jour imo, taking the place of rampant diagnoses of ADD and ADHD in previous decades.

But as I just said, even if he is legitimately diagnosed, I personally don't buy that as an excuse for his behaviour. Particularly his predatory behaviour of women, as we've seen from his own posts on the bb forums and in MSM by local nightclub owners and bouncers.

MOO

 

[Brightbird]

All I've seen is a line in a media article that stated that a lawyer from one of his earlier crimes said he had a "partial diagnosis" of Autism. That is a red flag that he was never diagnosed as such. Personally, I think he was assessed and the psych report said he had traits of autism but did not meet full criteria, and his lawyer has twisted that to "partial diagnosis". There is no such thing as a partial diagnosis. As far I'm concerned, he hasn't been diagnosed with anything on the Autism Spectrum, otherwise his lawyer would have said so. End of story, IMO.

 

[MsAnais]

All I've seen is a line in a media article that stated that a lawyer from one of his earlier crimes said he had a "partial diagnosis" of Autism. That is a red flag that he was never diagnosed as such. Personally, I think he was assessed and the psych report said he had traits of autism but did not meet full criteria, and his lawyer has twisted that to "partial diagnosis". There is no such thing as a partial diagnosis. As far I'm concerned, he hasn't been diagnosed with anything on the Autism Spectrum, otherwise his lawyer would have said so. End of story, IMO.

Thank you, Brightbird. That's exactly what I said earlier in the thread - it's a red flag all the way. You either are or you aren't. No partial. The language is not that of a mental health professional.

(And that's the last comment on it for me!! :floorlaugh

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

Hey Slinki :seeya:

To be honest, I'm personally not interested in having an ongoing debate/discussion about whether he's got Asperger's or not.

I haven't personally assessed him and we haven't received a definitive statement in MSM (like we have in other WS cases), so we just don't know at this point.

What I do know as a psychologist is that it's not at all difficult to get diagnosed as being on the spectrum in the current climate. As I said earlier on the thread, it's the diagnosis du jour imo, taking the place of rampant diagnoses of ADD and ADHD in previous decades.

But as I just said, even if he is legitimately diagnosed, I personally don't buy that as an excuse for his behaviour. Particularly his predatory behaviour of women, as we've seen from his own posts on the bb forums and in MSM by local nightclub owners and bouncers.

MOO

Point taken. It was not never my intention to upset you or anyone else in this thread in any way.

 

[MsAnais]

Point taken. It was not never my intention to upset you or anyone else in this thread in any way.

Oh hey, Slinki - I'm not upset in any way. I just didn't want to keep going over the ASD stuff as we'll just be going round and round until we find out something factual, that's all.

All's well. Tis no big deal :seeya:

 

[SlinkiMalinki]

:great:

Oh hey, Slinki - I'm not upset in any way. I just didn't want to keep going over the ASD stuff as we'll just be going round and round until we find out something factual, that's all.

All's well. Tis no big deal :seeya:

That's great, I'm glad!

 

[Amee]

:waiting:

 

[Amee]

A YOUNG woman was allegedly sexually assaulted by several men after she met one of them on dating app Tinder.

The victim — a 28-year-old room New Zealand in Sydney on business — met the man in a Kings Cross restaurant last Saturday before going with him to a bar in Martin Pl, in Sydney’s CBD.

They were joined there by a number of the man’s friends.

Police throughout Australia have been warning of the dangers of dating apps like Tinder for months. Earlier this year a tourist from New Zealand was allegedly murdered after meeting a stranger on the Gold Coast via Tinder.

In that case, Gable Tostee has pleaded not guilty to murdering Warriena Wright and is behind bars waiting his next bail hearing.

http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/...eeting-on-tinder/story-fnihslxi-1227083995690