Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #6

[Trooper]

No, the Crown bears the onus of proof. It must answer these questions. All the Defence has to do is pose credible questions, put up hypotheses as you are doing. The explanation consistent with guilt and excluding any (of innocence) beyond reasonable doubt, with supportive evidence, has to come from the Prosecutor.

of course the crown wears the onus of proof... who doesn't know that? .. it most certainly isn't up to the prosecutor to EXPLAIN why GABE kept RINGING her PHONE number!!.. this is entirely a matter for his long suffering barrister who will have to come up with some logical and rational reason, and we all know that is already doomed to fail. ' this nonsense about the Prosecutor having to EXPLAIN Gabes Silliness is taking absurdity to the outer limits..

 

[Strangeworld]

Does anyone know the laws regarding home brew/moonshine and responsibility? I recall a case recently where there were multiple deaths where home brew was consumed but I think it might have been toxic? Obviously Warriena didn't die from the home brewed vodka and we haven't heard anything about it being toxic, but could this be considered in future legal action..that Warriena's level of intoxication was directly influenced by the alcohol he served her - she had no way of knowing how potent it was and the effect it may have on her. I know she chose to drink it but so did the guys in the other case. Just wondering.

 

[SouthAussie]

Does anyone know the laws regarding home brew/moonshine and responsibility? I recall a case recently where there were multiple deaths where home brew was consumed but I think it might have been toxic? Obviously Warriena didn't die from the home brewed vodka and we haven't heard anything about it being toxic, but could this be considered in future legal action..that Warriena's level of intoxication was directly influenced by the alcohol he served her - she had no way of knowing how potent it was and the effect it may have on her. I know she chose to drink it but so did the guys in the other case. Just wondering.

It is illegal to make it here in Australia. And someone posted the legal clause, in the last thread, about the provider's responsibility when serving an illegal substance to someone resulting in extreme adverse effects (they said the clause is used in heroin manslaughter/poisoning cases).

 

[Trooper]

Please provide a link of how the CWA is looking at it?

I'd be very interested in how the CWA looks at this.. I recall there was a gathering of CWA ladies who sent a submission to the High Court, in regard to violence against women in not just country towns, but cities also ( lots of city branches, Sydney has 3 in the Eastern suburbs where I live, and lots more on the North Shore, and out west ) ..

 

[Ausgirl]

Haven't been here in a loooonnng time but it's certainly gotten interesting....

I heard the audio for the first time today and it wasn't what I imagined it would be. I thought from the transcript that the concentration would be incredibly loud, violent-sounding and emotional...GT's voice really creeped me out, he had a particularly emotionless flat affect in his tone that was to me more unnerving than than any kind of screaming confrontation.

IMO, I truly believe that GT has a personality disorder. Most definitely narcissism and potentially sociopathic traits, based on a) a number of his previous behaviours that he outlined on bodybuilding.com and b) his arrest history, which shows an escalation of adrenalin-seeking behaviours and poor impulse control. He certainly also seems to have issues around power and control (which you can see come through in the audio, particularly in his stay/go comments throughout the night to Rrie).

Caveating that, I think the problem in this case is that the appearance of a personality disorder is kind of being seen as an automatic antecedent to him being a murderer. In all actuality, while I think he is a narcissistic sociopath who has absolutely fantasised about similar power-struggle scenarios I unfortunately don't think there's enough in the case yet for murder; however I think he has a shot at being culpible for manslaughter. Compare to G B-C, there were a myriad of reasons why he would want to kill Allison (money, affair); the only motive GT has is for thrills or a power struggle gone bad and that has not been fully established (yet).

My problem also with the audio is that it is a flawed and biased document. I see it as a form of gas lighting, in the sense GT knew about the recording and thus could tailor commentary to suit his own narrative. He appears to have a history of doing that. And no-one can truly know what that narrative or motive for doing this was. If there is a nefarious reason for doing it, it's not being established as yet. Similarly, I feel the audio is presenting only 50% of the story. We don't know what their actions were on the night, if their actions contradicted the audio and if the audio was deliberately manipulated around the action. For example, in regards to rocks, it could've been blown out of proportion deliberately - GT could have thrown the first rock at Rrie in a playful manner, she could have responded playfully and only then did he say 'ow'. It's pure speculation, but casts a lot of doubt on the evidence. We can throw around a lot of theories but no-one can say for certain, which is why I feel the audio is unfortunately flawed. For every argument there's an equal counter-argument.

I am still totally stunned however at his push/pull behaviour when he decided to kick her out. Tells her to leave; but tells her she can't take any of her stuff with her. Why. As if you wouldn't try and take your bag with you etc.Tells her to leave, puts her on the balcony. That makes me so angry; yes, she was drunk and being disorderly. That is no reason to keep her belongings or in an isolated part of his house.

Just...why.

Excellent post, lots to consider in that.

I pretty much agree with everything you've said here, particularly re the audio. I've had similar thoughts about it ever since I first listened to it.

 

[fairydust]

Tostee's actions and reactions after Warriena fell is more commonly known as Mens Rea.

An element of criminal responsibility, a guilty mind; a guilty or wrongful purpose; a criminal intent. Guilty knowledge and wilfulness.

A fundamental principle of Criminal Law is that a crime consists of both a mental and a physical element. Mens rea, a person's awareness of the fact that his or her conduct is criminal, is the mental element, and actus reus, the act itself, is the physical element.

Utter nonsense. His conduct is evident od someone who has dealt with police before and knows that police verbal, intimidate , tamper with evidence, and falsely accuse people of crimes they did not commit. Prime case is Graham Stafford, but I can give you many more examples if you wish to labour the point.

Tostees actions were one of mistrust of the police. This case has shown me, that such mistrust is well placed.

 

[Strangeworld]

I posted earlier about my sadness at how men treat women in society. The CWA reference can now be added to the list of examples.

 

[Elde Fruit]

Please provide a link of how the CWA is looking at it? Oh and BTW, none of us are technical or legal experts here.

I doubt I've suggested otherwise.

 

[Coldpizza]

:modstop:

Enough is Enough

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I'm sure not one of you wants that.

This thread will open in 5 minutes once you all have had time to read and thank this post.

 

[Strangeworld]

It is illegal to make it here in Australia. And someone posted the legal clause, in the last thread, about the provider's responsibility when serving an illegal substance to someone resulting in extreme adverse effects (they said the clause is used in heroin manslaughter/poisoning cases).

Thanks SouthAussie, will have a looksy. I think this could be another avenue for family to persue. Even if he gets off, I am predicting years of legal action directed his way.

 

[Trooper]

Gas lighting, thankyou MZD... that is the word.. the ironic thing is, he wound up gaslighting himself.. there is a certain Karma-ish balance in that. He really should have turned it off before he recorded himself explaining it all to Dad.. that is a huge , huge mistake of Gabe's.. among so many.. ..

 

[SouthAussie]

Thanks SouthAussie, will have a looksy. I think this could be another avenue for family to persue. Even if he gets off, I am predicting years of legal action directed his way.

I found it during recess ... it was earlier in this thread.

Has the Court heard anything about this so called moonshine or is it just nonsense? Because if it was full blown moonshine then maybe criminal negligence could come in.

289 Duty of persons in charge of dangerous things

It is the duty of every person who has in the person's charge or under the person's control anything, whether living or inanimate, and whether moving or stationary, of such a nature that, in the absence of care or precaution in its use or management, the life, safety, or health, of any person may be endangered, to use reasonable care and take reasonable precautions to avoid such danger, and the person is held to have caused any consequences which result to the life or health of any person by reason of any omission to perform that duty.

This is the section they use for heroin 'hot shots.'

 

[Strangeworld]

Utter nonsense. His conduct is evident od someone who has dealt with police before and knows that police verbal, intimidate , tamper with evidence, and falsely accuse people of crimes they did not commit. Prime case is Graham Stafford, but I can give you many more examples if you wish to labour the point.Tostees actions were one of mistrust of the police. This case has shown me, that such mistrust is well placed.

Any evidence to support this? That's a very big statement to make and simply using Graham Stafford's name does not justify it. Our police are respected in this country by most. Sure there are some bad eggs in every profession, but I'd really like to know what examples you have. Mistrust is often ill-founded in the guilty.

 

[Strangeworld]

I found it during recess ... it was earlier in this thread.

:cheers::tyou:

 

[Elde Fruit]

I found it during recess ... it was earlier in this thread.

Yes, and not being relied upon by the Crown as part of its case.

 

[Elde Fruit]

*double post*

 

[Strangeworld]

Yes, and not being relied upon by the Crown as part of its case.

IMO there will be further legal action in Tostee's future. This case will not be the end and I would bet he knows it.

 

[sleepinoz]

Yes, and not being relied upon by the Crown as part of its case.

Link please - I haven't read this anywhere.

 

[Trooper]

IMO there will be further legal action in Tostee's future. This case will not be the end and I would bet he knows it.

he knows, and Dad sure knows that he is a ripe plum, ready for the picking, even , and perhaps especially if he is sentenced to 30 years without parole... .. . endless no fee lawyers are even as I type sending emails across to NZ.

 

[fairydust]

Gee, why would they stop? The deceased, was deceased, beyond help in any way.

Yes amazing isnt it? they go on, and on, and on,and on about it.