Australia - Warriena Wright, 26, dies in balcony fall, Surfers Paradise, Aug 2014 #6

[Amee]

I'm so disappointed in the prosecution. If one looks at the photograph of the reenactment of Warriena's feet dangling, it is obvious there is no way the neighbour below could have seen Tostee standing above lowering Warriena over the balcony rail. There is no way she would have attempted that climb down that balcony. The case the prosecution has run is a joke. Tostee hung her over the rail and ran back inside. If you hang someone off a balcony and leave them to fall, that's murder. I will never forget this travesty of justice.

Nick Casey, a hairdresser, was visiting a friend in the apartment two levels beneath that belonging to Tostee, when he heard cries for help from above.
When he went to the balcony and looked up, he saw a woman lowering herself over the balustrade.
“I heard her say, ‘I want to go home’. I heard her say, ‘help’ and at that point I said to her, ‘go back inside’ and it wasn’t long after that she fell.”
Mr Casey’s may well have been the last voice Ms Wright ever heard.
“She fell straight past where I was standing on the balcony and ricocheted off a few balconies below us and kept on going to the ground,” he said

http://www.news.com.au/national/que...m/news-story/9d371f8eb19ac2e00fee6fa474f631fd

 

[Trooper]

Off topic slightly, but I am just wondering if there have been cases on WS, when someone has been charged with murder, and you guys sleuth, and have come to the consensus that even though the person is charged, they are in fact innocent?

not in my experience, ..no.. one of the reasons one contributes and shares on Websleuths, and on a particular thread, is because one is of the opinion that the accused is guilty.. Every thread I have joined , the perpetrator winds up in the clink, found guilty, so my instinct so far hasn't been in error.

If one thought the accused was innocent, one wouldn't use a thread like this.. one would, generally make one's own thread declaiming the innocence of the accused, to all and sundry and invite people to share their thoughts on that matter.. this thread is arranged for the folk who believe that Gabe is guilty.. of course there will be people who wander in, lost and on the wrong track who will try and twist evidence and process to attempt to make people change their mind, or some other silly reason, these people belong on the Thread that one could start up that says, Gabe!! Hero!,Innocent! Throws Drunk Women Off His Balcony As it Should Be!!.. and this kind of stuff.

most of the contributors are VICTIM friendly.. indeed, the entire organisation of Web Sleuths is predicated on that posture, VICTIM FRIENDLY.

 

[Ziggie88]

I'm so disappointed in the prosecution. If one looks at the photograph of the reenactment of Warriena's feet dangling, it is obvious there is no way the neighbour below could have seen Tostee standing above lowering Warriena over the balcony rail. There is no way she would have attempted that climb down that balcony. The case the prosecution has run is a joke. Tostee hung her over the rail and ran back inside. If you hang someone off a balcony and leave them to fall, that's murder. I will never forget this travesty of justice.

Also her screams sound to get more stressed as she is getting taken closer to the edge of the balcony. Why would she scream louder and louder and be getting more and more distressed if he was just trying to shove her out the door? You would be less worried once he took his arms off her to go back inside.


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[Strangeworld]

IMO the reason she didn't bang on the door, try to get back into the apartment is because of fear. The prosecution, thank goodness, focused on this today. She didn't go back over to the door and plead to be let back in because she didn't want to go back in...what was on the other side of that door? In her mind, in that moment, the safest option was over the side and hopefully to the safety of the unit below. Pure fear is IMO what stopped her trying to reenter through the balcony door.

 

[UndiscoveredTruth]

I'm so disappointed in the prosecution. If one looks at the photograph of the reenactment of Warriena's feet dangling, it is obvious there is no way the neighbour below could have seen Tostee standing above lowering Warriena over the balcony rail. There is no way she would have attempted that climb down that balcony. The case the prosecution has run is a joke. Tostee hung her over the rail and ran back inside. If you hang someone off a balcony and leave them to fall, that's murder. I will never forget this travesty of justice.

A witness testified to speaking with Warriena. She said she wanted to go home, he told her she couldn't come down that way and to get back up. Something to that effect. Surely, if like you say, Tostee hung her over the rail and ran back inside, Warriena would not have said, to the witness, I want to go home, she would have screamed, something along the lines of.. He's trying to kill me, HELP MEEEEEEEEEEE. That's what I think anyway. MOO

 

[luvlee]

Warriena was clearly extremely intoxicated, to the point of being incoherent in various points in the tape and telling tostee she needed to do a poo and take a s#*t.
When she started to get physical with Tostee, I can only speculate that he thought she was mucking around. He played along for a while and then things went a little too far (with Warriena getting a little too aggressive).
I don't know that he actually choked her per se but may have restrained her using his weight and you hear her succumb eventually.
It's at this point I feel like he started to get into the 'role play' she had initiated despite initially resisting while she tries to back track, perhaps realising things were going too far. The tone of his voice is very menacing and when she cries that she wants to go home, he (almost comically) tells her he would but she's been a bad girl. I feel like up until this point, it was alcohol affected role play which she realised was turning serious.
I think he locked her on the balcony, still in character for the 'game' she had initiated. I don't think in a million years he though she'd be over the railing a few seconds later. I also don't think she would have attempted that if she wasn't so intoxicated. I also think she had a few avenues to exhaust before jumping for her life (i.e. sitting out there orcalling for help) but she wasn't in her right frame of mind.
This is all very unfortunate but I don't think Gable Tostee can be held responsible for her death. It's just a tragic accident.

 

[Ziggie88]

IMO the reason she didn't bang on the door, try to get back into the apartment is because of fear. The prosecution, thank goodness, focused on this today. She didn't go back over to the door and plead to be let back in because she didn't want to go back in...what was on the other side of that door? In her mind, in that moment, the safest option was over the side and hopefully to the safety of the unit below. Pure fear is IMO what stopped her trying to reenter through the balcony door.

Agreed but would you think you would contemplate climbing that railing for at least a moment before you actually try and execute it?
Wouldn't you yell to the neighbours or something. I just can't imagine her making such a split second decision and throwing herself over that railing without thinking about it for a second.
Of course it's possible just not how I imagine it would have gone down. Also in the recording you can hear him shut the door and he's breathing heavy and then within seconds she drops.
Where was the time for the neighbour to speak with her about climbing back up?
In the recording it seems to all happen within seconds.


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[Ziggie88]

IMO the reason she didn't bang on the door, try to get back into the apartment is because of fear. The prosecution, thank goodness, focused on this today. She didn't go back over to the door and plead to be let back in because she didn't want to go back in...what was on the other side of that door? In her mind, in that moment, the safest option was over the side and hopefully to the safety of the unit below. Pure fear is IMO what stopped her trying to reenter through the balcony door.

Yes I agree fear would have stopped her from wanting to go back in but everyone knows climbing over a 14th floor railing is almost ALwAYS going to end in disaster. However she could have tried to get the neighbours attention to get her help.
Of course she may have been the king he was going in the get something to hit her/kill her with (perhaps a knife) we don't know what she was thinking I just know climbing over the railing would be the very last of my attempts to escape and I am not one to be afraid of heights or anything of that sort. It's just common sense!


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[Kitsune]

not in my experience, ..no.. one of the reasons one contributes and shares on Websleuths, and on a particular thread, is because one is of the opinion that the accused is guilty.. Every thread I have joined , the perpetrator winds up in the clink, found guilty, so my instinct so far hasn't been in error.

If one thought the accused was innocent, one wouldn't use a thread like this.. one would, generally make one's own thread declaiming the innocence of the accused, to all and sundry and invite people to share their thoughts on that matter.. this thread is arranged for the folk who believe that Gabe is guilty.. of course there will be people who wander in, lost and on the wrong track who will try and twist evidence and process to attempt to make people change their mind, or some other silly reason, these people belong on the Thread that one could start up that says, Gabe!! Hero!,Innocent! Throws Drunk Women Off His Balcony As it Should Be!!.. and this kind of stuff.

most of the contributors are VICTIM friendly.. indeed, the entire organisation of Web Sleuths is predicated on that posture, VICTIM FRIENDLY.

Thank you Trooper

 

[Strangeworld]

Warriena was clearly extremely intoxicated, to the point of being incoherent in various points in the tape and telling tostee she needed to do a poo and take a s#*t.
When she started to get physical with Tostee, I can only speculate that he thought she was mucking around. He played along for a while and then things went a little too far (with Warriena getting a little too aggressive).
I don't know that he actually choked her per se but may have restrained her using his weight and you hear her succumb eventually.
It's at this point I feel like he started to get into the 'role play' she had initiated despite initially resisting while she tries to back track, perhaps realising things were going too far. The tone of his voice is very menacing and when she cries that she wants to go home, he (almost comically) tells her he would but she's been a bad girl. I feel like up until this point, it was alcohol affected role play which she realised was turning serious.
I think he locked her on the balcony, still in character for the 'game' she had initiated. I don't think in a million years he though she'd be over the railing a few seconds later. I also don't think she would have attempted that if she wasn't so intoxicated. I also think she had a few avenues to exhaust before jumping for her life (i.e. sitting out there orcalling for help) but she wasn't in her right frame of mind.
This is all very unfortunate but I don't think Gable Tostee can be held responsible for her death. It's just a tragic accident.

Something the prosecution raised today which I hadn't considered (and wasn't aware could be considered legally) was that he caused her GBH by the choking, which is enough for at minimum manslaughter, if not murder. There was intention to harm her (yes, restraining, applying pressure is harm, it doesn't have to be a punch or a kick). Context is huge in this case.

Kate Kyriacou ‏@KateKyriacou [video=twitter;786744216873381888]https://twitter.com/KateKyriacou/status/786744216873381888[/video] Cash says if that restricting of her breath was a cause for her climbing to downstairs balcony and falling, it's murder.

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[Ziggie88]

Yes I agree fear would have stopped her from wanting to go back in but everyone knows climbing over a 14th floor railing is almost ALwAYS going to end in disaster. However she could have tried to get the neighbours attention to get her help.
Of course she may have been the king he was going in the get something to hit her/kill her with (perhaps a knife) we don't know what she was thinking I just know climbing over the railing would be the very last of my attempts to escape and I am not one to be afraid of heights or anything of that sort. It's just common sense!


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Either way I feel extremely distressed for her family and I hope justice is served. Whatever that may be.


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[Trooper]

Agreed but would you think you would contemplate climbing that railing for at least a moment before you actually try and execute it?
Wouldn't you yell to the neighbours or something. I just can't imagine her making such a split second decision and throwing herself over that railing without thinking about it for a second.
Of course it's possible just not how I imagine it would have gone down. Also in the recording you can hear him shut the door and he's breathing heavy and then within seconds she drops.
Where was the time for the neighbour to speak with her about climbing back up?
In the recording it seems to all happen within seconds.


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what don't we SEE on the recording?>. we don't SEE what he did that made her jump the railing.. it had to be something so menacing that jumping the railing was actually a choice.. ... I am thinking of people who jump from burning buildings.. on the face of it, it's a crazed thing to do, straight out the window and straight down 14 floors, sometimes more, and the question is, what were they fleeing that was worse than the inevitable end resulting from jumping?.. the fire, the silent fire, the inexorable unarguable fire closing in.. do I want to be burnt? or do I want to be crushed and broken.

We don't know what she saw that made her jump.. Gabe isn't going to tell us, either, naturally. But she fell 14 floors , as opposed to getting back into that apartment and that can only be due to terror of what was in that apartment, that was bigger than the terror of falling . .

 

[MelbourneSleuth]

A witness testified to speaking with Warriena. She said she wanted to go home, he told her she couldn't come down that way and to get back up. Something to that effect. Surely, if like you say, Tostee hung her over the rail and ran back inside, Warriena would not have said, to the witness, I want to go home, she would have screamed, something along the lines of.. He's trying to kill me, HELP MEEEEEEEEEEE. That's what I think anyway. MOO

I thought the person had just said something like- You can't come down this way. I didn't think there was a conversation. I'd have to go back and look to be certain though.

Would you physically be able to converse whilst hanging on for dear life 14 floors up?

I agree with other statements about the disappointing evidence given by prosecution. No expert witnesses for analysis of voices & gurgling/ choking noises, no mention / testing of home distilled vodka & where is behavioural analysis in Aus? Defence is certainly going there

I feel so bad for her family


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[Ziggie88]

what don't we SEE on the recording?>. we don't SEE what he did that made her jump the railing.. it had to be something so menacing that jumping the railing was actually a choice.. ... I am thinking of people who jump from burning buildings.. on the face of it, it's a crazed thing to do, straight out the window and straight down 14 floors, sometimes more, and the question is, what were they fleeing that was worse than the inevitable end resulting from jumping?.. the fire, the silent fire, the inexorable unarguable fire closing in.. do I want to be burnt? or do I want to be crushed and broken.

We don't know what she saw that made her jump.. Gabe isn't going to tell us, either, naturally. But she fell 14 floors , as opposed to getting back into that apartment and that can only be due to terror of what was in that apartment, that was bigger than the terror of falling . .

Good way of looking at it!
Thankyou for your opinion.


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[luvlee]

what don't we SEE on the recording?>. we don't SEE what he did that made her jump the railing.. it had to be something so menacing that jumping the railing was actually a choice.. ...

Or maybe, as the audio confirms, she was just REALLY drunk and not thinking straight?

 

[Ziggie88]

Was it just alcohol that was making her so incoherent? Of course it is possible but she sounded sedated to me.

what don't we SEE on the recording?>. we don't SEE what he did that made her jump the railing.. it had to be something so menacing that jumping the railing was actually a choice.. ...

Or maybe, as the audio confirms, she was just REALLY drunk and not thinking straight?

 

[Trooper]

Since only Gabe knew of the recording , it is viable, and accurate to claim that he spoke every word with an eye on the preservation his utterances... Every word Gabe spoke was for his aide memoir later on. He was in complete control of that recording, and he could, and did add and deflect any and all contexts that may have arose that could have painted him in a bad light.. He is very keen to declaim that she doesn't have a scratch on her, yet he is injured.... where are those injuries??? there are none. But GABE wants that event on the tape to play with later..

 

[JCB]

Since only Gabe knew of the recording , it is viable, and accurate to claim that he spoke every word with an eye on the preservation his utterances... Every word Gabe spoke was for his aide memoir later on. He was in complete control of that recording, and he could, and did add and deflect any and all contexts that may have arose that could have painted him in a bad light.. He is very keen to declaim that she doesn't have a scratch on her, yet he is injured.... where are those injuries??? there are none. But GABE wants that event on the tape to play with later..

The problem with that theory is that by Crown admission, Tostee may well have even forgotten he was recording, at least at times.

 

[Ziggie88]

1.09am: Male says that he “doesn’t think there is anything after death”. “Throw me off the balcony and that is it. This is it, boom.”
[h=1]Tostee trial audio: 'You're lucky I haven't chucked you off my balcony you psycho little b***h[/h]He certainly has thought about someone going over his balcony before? He mentions this of a way of dying at least twice before putting her out there. No wonder she thought she was going to die when he started dragging her in that direction. The fear she must have felt is unfathomable.

 

[MZD]

While not perfect, I thought the Crown argument was better than I expected.

Saul Holt's was bland, I expected more.