Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sep 2014 - #65

[JBowie]

And if recent cases in this country are anything to go by then just as it appears nothing is happening...boom!...there's an arrest.

That often happens when police are certain they have the right person under close surveilance and are just patiently biding their time for him/her to make the slip-up that gives them the "go" to make an arrest.

 

[JWSleuth]

Why would the Coroner shut it down? It isn't connected to William's case. Or are you just stating your opinion?

To avoid tainting her case IMO. Still think unfair as it usually public record.

 

[Awakening]

Since she is under a foster arrangement, wouldn't some kind of case worker also be involved? I very much doubt police could have filed false charges here even if they had wanted to, and why would they jeopardize their overall case like that?

I think posters are speculating that the alleged assault charges may not have come directly from the child.

There is mandatory reporters in Australia so a teacher or sports coach could have notified authorities.

Way back a few threads, a very astute new member pointed out that the AVO was lodged by a homicide detective (as opposed to your local cop) and theorised that these charges came about from something overheard by surveillance (assuming the foster family is under surveillance).

I don't know if a child victim needs to confirm the abuse if asked by a teacher or police? But I wouldn't think so because a child could deny abuse through fear and intimidation, so I think charges could come about even if the child didn't report it or denied it. IMO.

 

[Couldbe]

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The sister is removed from their care and then we get the abuse allegations where they are then changed with assault.


It’s not exactly rocket science here Moo

Might be useful to have a rocket scientist on the case to help solve Where's William!

 

[Jaded325594]

And if recent cases in this country are anything to go by then just as it appears nothing is happening...boom!...there's an arrest.


I think posters are speculating that the alleged assault charges may not have come directly from the child.

There is mandatory reporters in Australia so a teacher or sports coach could have notified authorities.

Way back a few threads, a very astute new member pointed out that the AVO was lodged by a homicide detective (as opposed to your local cop) and theorised that these charges came about from something overheard by surveillance (assuming the foster family is under surveillance).

I don't know if a child victim needs to confirm the abuse if asked by a teacher or police? But I wouldn't think so because a child could deny abuse through fear and intimidation, so I think charges could come about even if the child didn't report it or denied it. IMO.

Yeah absolutely. Or the child could be too young, non-verbal, refusing to talk. Plenty of reasons.

 

[JBowie]

What factors trigger a criminal into confessing?

These factors are referred to as

1. Internal Pressure,
2. External Pressure and
3. Proof.

The factors were found to be associated with the type of offence committed and the attitude of the offender towards his confession.

The reasons why suspects confess during custodial interrogation: data for Northern Ireland - PubMed

To that I guess I'd add a deal offer by the police. In capital offence cases, in places where the death penalty still exists, police can often elicit a confession by taking execution off the table in return for a full and detailed confession.

 

[winterberry]

Sorry if this has been posted prior, I haven't seen it in the past 4 or so threads.

"Concerns Gary Jubelin has breached police confidentiality"

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[Edgar70]

I was puzzled by the personal gain bit, too.

I guess book authors make personal gain.
(I haven't bought any of them so no contribution to personal gain from me.)

You may be right. I hadn't considered this aspect.

 

[Awakening]

What factors trigger a criminal into confessing?

These factors are referred to as

1. Internal Pressure,
2. External Pressure and
3. Proof.

The factors were found to be associated with the type of offence committed and the attitude of the offender towards his confession.

The reasons why suspects confess during custodial interrogation: data for Northern Ireland - PubMed

<modsnip> I can't read the full article.

 

[SouthAussie]

So .... back to the search.

(Paraphrased)

In the last hours of today, the searchers pulled out a small muddy object from the drained creek bed.

On Monday Exhibit Z was filed, then the alphabet was restarted and the next article was Exhibit A.
Forensic experts will be examining the items in the coming days.

A cadaver dog also went over the now uncovered earth.

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[winterberry]

I truly don’t understand why they made that statement, it seems very ill advised and rather hot headed, as if they were provoked and published it without thinking. Would have been much better to say nothing IMO.

The only times i've seen the FM get genuinely emotional is in this rage post and when she was reading out her letter to the comissioner when going into bat for GJ.
No emotion in the 000 Call, fake emotion in all subsequent interviews, but rage with these two incidents. Rather disconcerting, IMO.

 

[Awakening]

To that I guess I'd add a deal offer by the police. In capital offence cases, in places where the death penalty still exists, police can often elicit a confession by taking execution off the table in return for a full and detailed confession.

But why would the potential discovery of remains be the thing that broke them?

Is it the general pressure of cops and media swarming everywhere?

Or is it because the remains are in the area and whoever committed the crime knows it and thinks "oh well they've got me now, may as well confess and see what deal I can cut"?

Is there anything potentially emotive about remains being found that would trigger the offender into slipping up? If it was not a stranger crime could the offender potentially be upset about the remains being disturbed or treated disrespectfully?

Edited to add: And on the flip side, if we assume remains are there and the offender knows it, what type of criminal mind would NOT break knowing how close they are? Like that's some balls of steel. I get nervous going through a booze bus and I don't even drink!

 

[Jaded325594]

Unless we are insiders neither will know for sure. It took us sleuths, what 5 minutes to search for details, nsw court no doubt had the stats on it, media on it - so suppressed - either by lawyer , coroner or nswpol - IMO

Pure speculation- i kind of figured NSWPOL were happy to accidently/on purpose have those details published.

But you're right - we'll never know.

 

[Limaes]

Unless we are insiders neither will know for sure. It took us sleuths, what 5 minutes to search for details, nsw court no doubt had the stats on it, media on it - so suppressed - either by lawyer , coroner or nswpol - IMO

Wholeheartedly agree. We just don't know.

 

[JBowie]

Sorry if this has been posted prior, I haven't seen it in the past 4 or so threads.

"Concerns Gary Jubelin has breached police confidentiality"

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I hadn't seen or heard that claim about Jubelin until now. (I tend to avoid watching Xanthé Mallett interviews.)

I guess the questions are: who has these concerns about GJ, and what exactly are the concerns?

 

[JWSleuth]

Pure speculation- i kind of figured NSWPOL were happy to accidently/on purpose have those details published.

But you're right - we'll never know.

I agree but might be too hot with names listed... Could be a request by anyone who knows <modsnip>

 

[winterberry]

I hadn't seen or heard that claim about Jubelin until now. (I tend to avoid watching Xanthé Mallett interviews.)

I guess the questions are: who has these concerns about GJ, and what exactly are the concerns?

Probably wise. XM isn't exactly one to follow. She continually makes questionable remarks on all famous cases and is never right, from what I've seen. IMO

Sounds like it could be the current investigators annoyed at him exposing police operations in order to save his reputation? IMO

 

[Estelle]

But why would the potential discovery of remains be the thing that broke them?

Is it the general pressure of cops and media swarming everywhere?

Or is it because the remains are in the area and the whoever committed the crime knows it and thinks "oh well they've got me now, may as well confess and see what deal I can cut"?

Is there anything potentially emotive about remains being found that would trigger the offender into slipping up? If it was not a stranger crime could the offender potentially be upset about the remains being disturbed or treated disrespectfully?

If I had been responsible for the death of my child and his body was found, I would realise that LE could then possibly link me to the death due to DNA or other things found nearby. If it looked as if I was going to go to prison, I would confess to reduce my sentence or I would confess to manslaughter when it might have been murder.

 

[Mrs G Norris]

Probably wise. XM isn't exactly one to follow. She continually makes questionable remarks on all famous cases and is never right, from what I've seen. IMO

Sounds like it could be the current investigators annoyed at him exposing police operations in order to save his own ego? IMO

Thought it might be the fact he said after he ambushed them with accusations they were released with a recording device, so now everyone who is being tested in future knows exactly how NSWPOL operate can circumvent it.

 

[Nessie]

The thing that really irked me about the FF’s “fake news” statement was how all these people on Facebook just unquestioningly accepted that the article must be wrong and the journalist just decided to make it up (exceedingly unlikely for an experienced and credible crime journo) without considering it strange that the family would have such a hysterical reaction to talk of a new POI. Thank goodness for this forum!

 

[winterberry]

Thought it might be the fact he said after he ambushed them with accusations they were released with a recording device, so now everyone who is being tested in future knows exactly how NSWPOL operate can circumvent it.

Good point.