Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #68

[Green beans]

Williams former foster parents are facing charges of assault of a child, there’s an AVO out, also resulting in foster child being removed from their care, and now they both have been charged with Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm


Stalking.
intimidation.

intent to cause fear
Or physical
Or mental harm.

All of these charges are serious.

 

[asyousay]

Williams former foster parents are facing charges of assault of a child, there’s an AVO out, also resulting in foster child being removed from their care, and now they both have been charged with Stalking or intimidation with intent to cause fear of physical or mental harm


Stalking.
intimidation.

intent to cause fear
Or physical
Or mental harm.

All of these charges are serious.

Yep


And yet we are meant to believe it’s just a vendetta against the family apparently.

 

[they'll get you]

What if they are innocent?

If that’s the case and I was them I’d be walking away from Australia & going off like Lindy Chamberlain and not look back.

1) I’d get a dog
2) I’d be flipping everyone the bird.

 

[Warshawski]

EXCLUSIVE: William Tyrrell's foster parents hold massive fire sale of children's bikes, car seats, prams, furniture and a WATER TANK with items as low as $5 - just days after being charged with stalking

William Tyrrell's foster parents hold massive sale of children's bikes, clothes, and a water tank | Daily Mail Online

Seems they’ve done a good job with the clean up / clear out there. .. wonder if they’ll come do the same in my garage ?

However, in all seriousness, & IMO, this is ridiculous reporting. It’s normal for people to do a clear out of stuff that’s not used / no longer needed.

 

[Warshawski]

“Walking away” - sorry nobody in power would let them near another child. It’s not their choice here and are not walking anywhere.

MOO

I hear you ... however I think there’s so many complexities & levels involved here thats it’s just a very sad situation.

To date there’s been no concrete evidence or judgement of guilt on anyone’s part, so I personally steer away from such strong statements.

IMO, time is a great leveller, and I believe Truth will always ( eventually) prevail.

 

[Awakening]

To me this is a classic Daily Mail piece

There's nothing suspicious about selling items, at least nothing I'm aware of at this point.

IMO, they are highlighting WATER TANK because there was lots of online speculation that WT's body may have been disposed of in a water tank.

I think, so will say IMO, that a water tank on FGM's property was drained at some point.

 

[SouthAussie]

If that’s the case and I was them I’d be walking away from Australia & going off like Lindy Chamberlain and not look back.

1) I’d get a dog
2) I’d be flipping everyone the bird.

Maybe that is what they are doing. Clearing the house and leaving.
As long as they show up for their court cases, I don't see anything stopping them.
And as long as the police have a contact point for them both (which could easily be their lawyers).

 

[gregjrichards]

Bombshell as William Tyrrell's foster MOTHER is now charged with lying to secretive crime commission - just weeks after foster dad was hit with same charge

“William Tyrrell's foster mother has now been charged with lying to the state's secretive Crime Commission, just weeks after her husband was laid with the same charge.

The 59-year-old was issued with a court attendance on Tuesday by NSW Homicide detectives, the Daily Telegraph reports.

She has been ordered to appear at the Downing Centre on May 24.”

William Tyrrell's foster MOTHER now charged with lying to secretive crime commission | Daily Mail Online

This information is being reported in the Daily Telegraph in Australia. I would have used the information from that article and provided a link instead of the Daily Mail but you need to be a member and most likely need to pay a subscription fee.

 

[iiiii's]

I'm wondering if the use of the NSW Crime Commission is a way of compelling the couple to give evidence, they would not normally give if police wished to interview and interrogate them further? My understanding is that if police suspect you and wish to question you further about a statement then you could have a lawyer present, you would be cautioned and you may decide to not co-operate and remain silent. Perhaps the rules are different for the crime commission and if you don't co-operate you can be charged with being in contempt of court. If so, then I see the use of the crime commission as a tactic to further WT's investigation. Just thoughts, ideas, MOO

 

[JBowie]

This information is being reported in the Daily Telegraph in Australia. I would have used the information from that article and provided a link instead of the Daily Mail but you need to be a member and most likely need to pay a subscription fee.

The DT article is more specific as regards the detectives, as bolded by me:

“On Tuesday, Strike Force Rosann detectives issued a Future Court Attendance Notice to a 56-year-old woman for knowingly give false or misleading evidence at a hearing,’’ police said in a statement released on Thursday.

 

[JBowie]

I'm wondering if the use of the NSW Crime Commission is a way of compelling the couple to give evidence, they would not normally give if police wished to interview and interrogate them further? My understanding is that if police suspect you and wish to question you further about a statement then you could have a lawyer present, you would be cautioned and you may decide to not co-operate and remain silent. Perhaps the rules are different for the crime commission and if you don't co-operate you can be charged with being in contempt of court. If so, then I see the use of the crime commission as a tactic to further WT's investigation. Just thoughts, ideas, MOO

The NSW Crime Commission can definitely compel people to give evidence.

You must answer all questions truthfully as you will be required to swear an oath or take an affirmation before the hearing commences. It is also an offence punishable by five years imprisonment to give an answer which you know to be false or misleading.

. . .

Receiving a summons from the NSW Crime Commission can be a daunting experience. It is very different from being invited to attend an interview at your local police station because the Crime Commission has much wider powers than NSW Police. For example, you are entitled to exercise your right against self-incrimination when being interviewed by Police.

However, no such right exists when being examined at the Crime Commission. In other words, there is much more at stake.

What happens if I am summoned to attend the NSW Crime Commission? | NGM Lawyers

And:

22 Legal representation
(1) At a hearing before the Commission—
(a) a person giving evidence may be represented by an Australian legal practitioner, and
(b) if, because of the existence of special circumstances, the Commission consents to a person who is not giving evidence being represented by an Australian legal practitioner—the person may be so represented.

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent the Commission from refusing to permit a particular Australian legal practitioner to represent a particular witness in an investigation if it believes on reasonable grounds and in good faith that to allow representation by the particular legal practitioner will, or is likely to, prejudice its investigation.

View - NSW legislation

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm wondering if the use of the NSW Crime Commission is a way of compelling the couple to give evidence, they would not normally give if police wished to interview and interrogate them further? My understanding is that if police suspect you and wish to question you further about a statement then you could have a lawyer present, you would be cautioned and you may decide to not co-operate and remain silent. Perhaps the rules are different for the crime commission and if you don't co-operate you can be charged with being in contempt of court. If so, then I see the use of the crime commission as a tactic to further WT's investigation. Just thoughts, ideas, MOO

I am not sure that is the case, in this particular instance.

"The charges relate to evidence the foster mother gave at a hearing before the NSW Crime Commission, and are not related to the operations of NSW Police."
Tyrrell's foster mum charged with lying (AAP)

 

[Karin1974]

Genuine question - If the former foster parents of William Tyrrell no longer have foster children, why are their identities still hidden?

 

[SouthAussie]

Genuine question - If the former foster parents of William Tyrrell no longer have foster children, why are their identities still hidden?

Because the Coroner has issued non publication orders (for the fosters and the bios) that must be honoured, until she lifts the NPO.

 

[JBowie]

I am not sure that is the case, in this particular instance.

"The charges relate to evidence the foster mother gave at a hearing before the NSW Crime Commission, and are not related to the operations of NSW Police."
Tyrrell's foster mum charged with lying (AAP)

'Not related to the operations of NSW Police' yet the notice was issued by Rosann detectives?

 

[iiiii's]

I am not sure that is the case, in this particular instance.

"The charges relate to evidence the foster mother gave at a hearing before the NSW Crime Commission, and are not related to the operations of NSW Police."
Tyrrell's foster mum charged with lying (AAP)

Yes


The foster mother of missing boy William Tyrrell has been charged with lying to the NSW Crime Commission.

The 56-year-old woman has been ordered to appear in court by Strike Force detectives who allege she knowingly lied in a hearing, NSW Police told AAP on Thursday.

"On Tuesday 12 April, Strike Force Rosann detectives issued a future court attendance notice to a 56-year-old woman for knowingly giving false or misleading evidence at a hearing," NSW Police said in a statement.

"She remains before the courts.

"Investigations under Strike Force Rosann are continuing."

The charges relate to evidence the foster mother gave at a hearing before the NSW Crime Commission, and are not related to the operations of NSW Police.

ibbm
I'm not sure either. I remember the Strikeforce were responsible for bringing charges against BS, that were unrelated to WT's case, so I guess they further other things they may unearth in their investigations. Do the strikeforce refer things to the NSWCC and then further proceedings from that process? If the FP's are not in front of the commission for homicide, organised crime, terrorism or serious crime, could they be fronting the commission for unexplained assets? That seems to be another branch the commission deals with.

 

[SouthAussie]

I'm not sure either. I remember the Strikeforce were responsible for bringing charges against BS, that were unrelated to WT's case, so I guess they further other things they may unearth in their investigations. Do the strikeforce refer things to the NSWCC and then further proceedings from that process? If the FP's are not in front of the commission for homicide, organised crime, terrorism or serious crime, could they be fronting the commission for unexplained assets? That seems to be another branch the commission deals with.

IIRC all detectives do not work just one case. So, while certain detectives may be in the strike force, they are frequently working other cases also.

We looked into this a long time ago and, for example, at the time Jubes was working 6 different cases - while also heading up Strike Force Rosann.

I looked the other day to see what Laidlaw was working on currently, and I found publications about two other cases of his which are ongoing.

(If you want links, I will have to re-find the cases later . Not in a position to do that right now.)

Although, AAP says that the 'lying' charges are not related to NSW Police.

 

[iiiii's]

The NSW Crime Commission can definitely compel people to give evidence.

You must answer all questions truthfully as you will be required to swear an oath or take an affirmation before the hearing commences. It is also an offence punishable by five years imprisonment to give an answer which you know to be false or misleading.

. . .

Receiving a summons from the NSW Crime Commission can be a daunting experience. It is very different from being invited to attend an interview at your local police station because the Crime Commission has much wider powers than NSW Police. For example, you are entitled to exercise your right against self-incrimination when being interviewed by Police.

However, no such right exists when being examined at the Crime Commission. In other words, there is much more at stake.

What happens if I am summoned to attend the NSW Crime Commission? | NGM Lawyers

And:

22 Legal representation
(1) At a hearing before the Commission—
(a) a person giving evidence may be represented by an Australian legal practitioner, and
(b) if, because of the existence of special circumstances, the Commission consents to a person who is not giving evidence being represented by an Australian legal practitioner—the person may be so represented.

(2) Subsection (1) does not prevent the Commission from refusing to permit a particular Australian legal practitioner to represent a particular witness in an investigation if it believes on reasonable grounds and in good faith that to allow representation by the particular legal practitioner will, or is likely to, prejudice its investigation.

View - NSW legislation

I find these commissions very disturbing, if that is the rule, BBM. I wonder what thresholds have to be met to have the usual rights we have , taken away. Even the Coronial Inquest can allow for the coroner to dispense an exemption certificate to someone who may self-incriminate if put on the stand. Obviously, you could look like a main suspect, but police would still need to find evidence to convict. MOO

 

[Karin1974]

Because the Coroner has issued non publication orders (for the fosters and the bios) that must be honoured, until she lifts the NPO.

Thank you

 

[JBowie]

I find these commissions very disturbing, if that is the rule, BBM. I wonder what thresholds have to be met to have the usual rights we have , taken away. Even the Coronial Inquest can allow for the coroner to dispense an exemption certificate to someone who may self-incriminate if put on the stand. Obviously, you could look like a main suspect, but police would still need to find evidence to convict. MOO

The Crime Commission was set up to deal with serious/organized crime and its power to compel witnesses to give evidence and answer truthfully is deemed necessary to crack the tough nuts usually associated with such things.

The links I gave earlier mention the CC's need to refer to the Supreme Court before it takes certain actions.