Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #70

[LolaAngelina]

Where dose the sister come in to it all, I thought she was placed with the family while they were waiting for WT birth perents that were on the run with him? What information or articles show when the sister was placed with the fosters

Missing boy William Tyrrell's doomed life

William Tyrrell's life was doomed long before he was abducted.

www.nzherald.co.nz

TIMELINE TO TRAGEDY

2010-2011: William Tyrrell's biological parents reunite after a period of estrangement and remain together during the mother's pregnancy with William.

26.6.2011: William Tyrrell is born.

During 2011: The couple destined to be his foster parents are approved by the Department of Family and Community Services (formerly DOCS) as carers.

Couple is willing to do crisis care and take "a sibling group" for long term placement.

​

Between 2011 and 2012: DOCS learns William's biological mother and father are back together and get a court order to have him removed. FACS tells the foster couple William is going to be surrendered from his birth family and come into their care.

February, 2012: FACS gains court orders to remove William from his birth mother.

8.2.2012: William's birth parents take off with William, and police in concert with FACS issue a warrant for the birth mother's arrest.

16.2.2012:

FACS approves foster parents

15.03.2012:
William is found at Sydney's Upper North Shore with biological parents and removed from them.

16.03.2012: Nine-month-old William is placed with the foster parents, supervised by Wesley Mission's Dalmar Out of Home Care.

March - September 2012: William's biological parents see him once a fortnight for between one and three hours.

July 2012: NSW FACS awards the Salvation Army a foster care contract under its new [but since disbanded] Young Hope Out of Home Care Service.

5 September 2012: Salvation Army's Young Hope, along with other NGOs, accredited by The Children's Guardian to manage foster care for FACS. Young Hope will take on 130 children in its first three years, including William Tyrrell.

2012-2013: William's biological parents are told the foster parents aren't comfortable meeting them. Under the Salvation Army, the birth parents see William for one hour once every two months on visits supervised by Salvation Army Out of Home Care

Around March 2013: Dropping off William for a contact visit, foster mother sees William's birth father, and on another occasion sees the birth mother. They don't speak.

December 2013 (if not 12 months earlier): William, his sister and foster parents attend a Christmas street party on the corner of Ellendale Crescent and Benaroon Drive, Kendall.

Doubt it

Lia Harris
·
Oct 7, 2020

Det Chief Insp Laidlaw there are “a number” of cars captured on CCTV from the Kendall Tennis Club on the day William vanished that “we can’t or have yet to identify”.


Det Chief Insp Laidlaw told the court there is material in relation to covert surveillance which has not been reviewed. “I made the decision that thus far the material wasn’t providing any evidence that we could utilise... so I made the decision not to continue reviewing that”

It just seems crazy to me that he makes the decision to not continue to listen to anymore surveillance as what they have listened to hasn’t provided any evidence. How do know there isn’t any evidence on what you haven’t reviewed if you haven’t reviewed it! I’m guessing what hasn’t been reviewed doesn’t relate to the FM so he’s not interested.

 

[Megnut]

Great wording of everything, I wasn't aware that foster father left twice, its so perfect that disappearance happened in Kendall not alot of security cameras and lots of bush, in Sydney there would of been loads of cameras and not much options, so perfect for the foster mother who was complaining about everything that now her problems hav left,

I hav always wondered about birth mother and sister, was birth mother having visits with sister before or after the birth of WT was the sister going with WT to the visits now he is with foster family im assuming she was as of a few articles i hav read but not 100% sure, now WT is out of the picture is sister continuing to see BM in the immediate time frame after the disappearance, I would assume that at some point in the future sister and birth mother would want to hav visits im not 100% sure what happened there.

As my theory has always been that birth family lost rights to sister as they may not hav kept up on appointments or court after loosing her, sister appeared to at some point hav entered the Forster familys care as long term, she may be available for adoption at some point in the future, WT was removed put with a sibling placement (possibly what the fosters were hoping for) (initially it would of had to start as short term?) but in the situation of WT birth mother she appeared to kept up with court appearances and appointments to get the child back, possibly she'd never be able to get him as he is in a sibling placement so hence the fact he will be under the department until 18yrs old, hence the fact birth family continuing to visit, creating a huge problem to adopt sister she is now in a sibling foster placement and basically may not be allowed to be adopted out reason being fosters could legally hand back WT at any time so then it would separate the siblings, basically a catch 20 situation, sister is available for adoption or future adoption but is now in a sibling foster placement with her biological brother, biological brother can't be adoptable as birth mother is on the scene, hence fosters trying to remove the birth family as of WT behaviour issues that appear to only be looked at by the department, where normally you would inform the department of the behavioural issues but take the child to developmental paediatrician and so forth for diagnosis or referral to assessments, getting back to the fact sister may be adoptable, brother may be un-adoptable, foster mother asked for birth visits to stop then threatening that she cant continue with WT i can't quote the email some things along that line to give him back (knowing she can't give him back as the sister is in a sibling placement if WT go's looks like the sister may hav to go with him) was the only option to foster mother was for WT to disappear into fresh air then sister can become adoptable, was WT the only reason birth mother was legally allowed to be on the scene, is it because no death certificate has been issued that the sister was sitting in limbo still couldn't be adopted out because of the sibling placement, its looks like a huge error in the department sister sitting in long term care to be sibling placed with a biological brother she may hav never met who is only entering the foster system initially as a short term whos biological parents hav kept up with legal requirements but can't get him back as he is sitting with a sibling he may have never met before the placement who she is long term possibly never to return to birth family or possibly the siblings together would be to much of a responsibility to every both go together to the birth family, should the department hav given fosters who wanted long term the sister but placed the brother in a short term placement to see if he will go back to birth family so there is an option for him to return then if the situation arose that birth mother can't get him then for him to be moved on as long term placement to the foster family with the sister

It seems like to much of an anomalie for WT to perfectly disappear into fresh air, and now the sister coming to an age that she can be adopted out with her consent i would assume fosters where pushing this onto her and from whats happened in the media im assuming she did not want this

Do they need my consent?

Your child can be adopted if they are in out-of-home care. Read more about the process, consent and court requirements, including how to stop an adoption order.

www.facs.nsw.gov.au

At the age of 12 a child can concent to adoption then fosters wouldn't need anyone else to approve, could it be the sister saying no i want to keep my last name same as my brother WT and I want to be in my birth family and if the fosters were responsible at some degree for the disappearance of WT are there true colours beginning to now show and they hav treated the sister badly could they hav snapped in some way as of everything they hav done and been through to try and adopt this child and she turned around and said no?

I would love to see a list of correct time lines, one that shows foster mothers drive that morning, or was there a witness that saw her driving at a confirmed time, I feel with foster mother instead of answering a question she is using for to many words and the answers are all over the place with her asking questions herself, basically bo straight answers with anything the story is all over the place

I would love to see a full timeline from the previous night at McDonalds up to the 000 call up to the drive to the Airport.

With each time and event if it showed "alleged by FC's" or "confirmed" if would be very helpful. The problem is that the story and timelines surrounding William's disappearance have changed quite a bit since the early days and IMO this is why the FC's have been charged with giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission.

It is now alleged that the MFC went for 2 drives on the morning of Williams disappearance and I am pretty sure the average person who has followed this case only heard about a second drive recently. The FFC going for a drive to allegedly look for William shortly after his disappearance was not known to the public for quite a long time as well.

The more "new" things that come to light years later that were not mentioned earlier on only create more and more suspicion IMO. Sloppy reporting by media has also added to what is a very confusing case.

The MFC's vehicle was only caught once on CCTV though, wasn't it?

I just want to clarify -- I myself was speculating about the father leaving twice. I theorized it, based on the FGa's recollection that he left early plus the seemingly verified later departure.

A clear timeline would be gold.

JMO

 

[Megnut]

BBM Its part of the court documents Secretary, Department of Family and Community Services v Smith [2017] NSWSC 6 - BarNet Jade

Much there I didn't know, about the order and circumstances of placement.

Good information.

JMO

 

[JBowie]

It just seems crazy to me that he makes the decision to not continue to listen to anymore surveillance as what they have listened to hasn’t provided any evidence. How do know there isn’t any evidence on what you haven’t reviewed if you haven’t reviewed it! I’m guessing what hasn’t been reviewed doesn’t relate to the FM so he’s not interested.

AFAIK, it wasn't a decision to simply stop listening. In his book Jubelin says that there were hundreds of hours of recordings and not enough officers on the team to listen to them all. (I've given the exact quote here some time back.)

 

[SouthAussie]

AFAIK, it wasn't a decision to simply stop listening. In his book Jubelin says that there were hundreds of hours of recordings and not enough officers on the team to listen to them all. (I've given the exact quote here some time back.)

I think the point is that Jubes would likely have had someone still ploughing through the recordings, not just abandonded them. Even if he had limited manpower.

Abandoning them did not allow that POI to be fully scoped out.
There was a reason a magistrate signed off on the fairly lengthy (timewise) recording warrants. And then renewed them.

From what we heard of the recordings, there were questionable statements recorded on them already.

 

[LolaAngelina]

AFAIK, it wasn't a decision to simply stop listening. In his book Jubelin says that there were hundreds of hours of recordings and not enough officers on the team to listen to them all. (I've given the exact quote here some time back.)

I was replying to a post that including his exact quote. He said he made the decision to stop reviewing

 

[T-dawg420]

Police were right to charge former William Tyrrell suspect with historical charges: Jubelin

Bill Spedding, who was once a suspect in William Tyrrell’s disappearance, is suing the state for malicious prosecution after he was acquitted of historical sex offences.

www.smh.com.au

edit to add: shades of Robert Murat

 

[JBowie]

I was replying to a post that including his exact quote. He said he made the decision to stop reviewing

That quote related to Laidlaw. The material was recorded during Jubelin's term as head of the Strike Force.

Personally, given that he was on a personal mission with PS, and given that he was a highly-driven cop, I believe that Jubelin would have gone through all of the recordings had the resources to do so been available.

 

[JBowie]

shades of Robert Murat

I had to look him up:

Who is Robert Murat and what is his involvement in the Madeleine McCann case?

ROBERT Murat lived in his mum’s house in Praia da Luz on the night Madeleine McCann disappeared in 2007. But even though he was totally cleared of any involvement in her disappearance, why is…

www.thescottishsun.co.uk

 

[deugirtni]

yes a full time line with what is actual independant confirmed fact and what is just someone elses story of events

Seems there are very few confirmed facts when it comes to the fosters.. this entire case is littered with their discrepancies, even during inquest it seems concrete answers failed to materialize (for example, which day exactly FM took her drive to the airport to pick up her sister - MSM didn't report which day after her testimony, drsleuth wasn't sure which day after attending on that day FM gave that testimony, etc.). Even the so-called 'facts' seem to have alternate facts, such as the time(/date?) of the 5 photos. It would be an extremely onerous job to create such a timeline to include all of the various versions of every single thing in this case. But it would sure be interesting to see it all laid out in a timeline. imo.

 

[SouthAussie]

It just seems crazy to me that he makes the decision to not continue to listen to anymore surveillance as what they have listened to hasn’t provided any evidence. How do know there isn’t any evidence on what you haven’t reviewed if you haven’t reviewed it! I’m guessing what hasn’t been reviewed doesn’t relate to the FM so he’s not interested.

I went back to look at the secret recording statements that we know about already. With hours and hours of those recordings not yet listened to, as far as we know.
I agree with drsleuth that the Coroner may have ordered that the recordings be listened to in their entirety. Because how on earth can she determine if this POI is truly cleared without knowing what else is on those recordings (if anything).



BBM
"Don't tell anyone love, they're right after me. Sorry"

"you're just a little boy, you're nobody" and referring to a Sydney suburb close to where William's family lived.

Mr Jubelin's barrister, Margaret Cunneen SC, put it to Detective Beacroft that a commander of the homicide squad, Scott Cook, said to her the investigation was "a waste of time" and police would "never get anyone for this".

"That's possibly something that was said," the witness replied.

Detective Beacroft on Thursday said she believed Mr Savage was no longer an "active" person of interest, despite there being nothing which could rule him out.

'Don't tell anyone, love': Secret recordings of William Tyrrell suspect revealed in court

A Sydney court hears how police planted listening devices in the home of retiree Paul Savage after it was suggested he tried to cover up the accidental death of William Tyrrell and heard the suspect talking to his dead wife.

www.abc.net.au

 

[bearbear]

i still wonder if ps witnessed something?

 

[Wexford]

Seems there are very few confirmed facts when it comes to the fosters.. this entire case is littered with their discrepancies, even during inquest it seems concrete answers failed to materialize (for example, which day exactly FM took her drive to the airport to pick up her sister - MSM didn't report which day after her testimony, drsleuth wasn't sure which day after attending on that day FM gave that testimony, etc.). Even the so-called 'facts' seem to have alternate facts, such as the time(/date?) of the 5 photos. It would be an extremely onerous job to create such a timeline to include all of the various versions of every single thing in this case. But it would sure be interesting to see it all laid out in a timeline. imo.

I think some of the other POI's stories were littered with discrepancies too. Does anyone ever remember anything the way it happened? Ask 3 people to recount an event they all saw occur and there will always be discrepancies. And MSM are notorious for confusing the situation and getting info wrong too. It would be a difficult task to do a timeline with the info as we are presented it. It would probably be more confusing not less so.

 

[bearbear]

dragging on!

New development for William Tyrrell’s foster parents​

https://www.couriermail.com.au/breaking-news/new-development-for-william-tyrrells-foster-parents/news-story/97f3d6afd026be20948fe44a0d353cdb

 

[bearbear]

so william and fcs had visited his fgm 7 months earlier

December 2013 (if not 12 months earlier): William, his sister and foster parents attend a Christmas street party on the corner of Ellendale Crescent and Benaroon Drive, Kendall.

February, 2014:

William Tyrrell and sister visit Kendall home of foster grandmother after foster grandfather's death.

Missing boy William Tyrrell's doomed life

William Tyrrell's life was doomed long before he was abducted.

www.nzherald.co.nz

 

[Detective Willy]

I keep wondering if we would still be here searching for answers if Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw was heading this investigation from the start?

The investigation IMO was somewhat botched in the early days and everything snowballed from then.

The current investigative team has been playing catch up from a long way behind but they seem to be making headway and finding things that the previous investigators could not.

 

[SouthAussie]

The current investigative team has been playing catch up from a long way behind but they seem to be making headway and finding things that the previous investigators could not.

What have they found?

 

[Detective Willy]

What have they found?

They found inconsistencies in stories provided by the FC's.

Both have now been charged with giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission.

I don't think I am alone in thinking that there has been more developments in this case in the last year than the previous 7 years.

The FC's have also been charged with assault and with stalking so it seems obvious IMO the current investigative team has focused on the FC's much more than the previous teams.

 

[purpleandgreen]

They found inconsistencies in stories provided by the FC's.

Both have now been charged with giving false or misleading evidence to the NSW Crime Commission.

I don't think I am alone in thinking that there has been more developments in this case in the last year than the previous 7 years.

The FC's have also been charged with assault and with stalking so it seems obvious IMO the current investigative team has focused on the FC's much more than the previous teams.

I'd be interested in reading about that. Do you have links, with direct quotes from LE? Ta.

 

[Detective Willy]

I'd be interested in reading about that. Do you have links, with direct quotes from LE? Ta.

Are you disputing that the FCs have been charged with giving false or misleading information or are you disputing that they have been charged with assault or are you disputing that they have been charged with stalking?

They are not allegations they are charges that are before the courts.

Which links are you chasing? Ta.