Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[Couldbe]

I don't see how he was doing all that driving around 9:30--returning to FGM's and driving out again for whatever reason--while also handling his call and internet demonstration. Unless the client didn't back up his story.

I have thought that when his mobile tracked leaving FFGM's house at 9.30 am .... that was his 2nd drive. He might not have taken his mobile when he left on his 1st drive (when FFGM said he was not there at the 8 am breakfast time).

 

[Doesitmakesense]

I don't see how he was doing all that driving around 9:30--returning to FGM's and driving out again for whatever reason--while also handling his call and internet demonstration. Unless the client didn't back up his story.

I think it's possible he had an earlier leave time, and not at breakfast at 8am, then has come back, then went back for the work stuff. Or just left earlier with one outing

 

[SLouTh]

I think the FM drive occurred before FF returned home, or by now we would have heard FF comments about the drive??

If AMS heard FF calling out before she was engaged in the search, the drive must have occured some time between 9:37 and 10:35 (as per Frogwell‘s post re the evidence by AMS)

Or else the timeline is incorrect???

The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'

A grey Mazda which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother was allegedly used by his foster mother near the spot on the NSW mid north coast where the toddler disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This would make the search of Benaroon down to Batar Creek Road with FM and AMS occurring between 10:35 - 11:56 (time of 000 call)

I also recall that it was FF who suggested that FM call the Police….possibly after FM and AMS returned after that search of Benaroon Drive. (As FM stated in the 000 call that AMS was present)

All IMO

 

[JLZ]

I have thought that when his mobile tracked leaving FFGM's house at 9.30 am .... that was his 2nd drive. He might not have taken his mobile when he left on his 1st drive (when FFGM said he was not there at the 8 am breakfast time).

I think it's possible he had an earlier leave time, and not at breakfast at 8am, then has come back, then went back for the work stuff. Or just left earlier with one outing

Regardless of what he was doing earlier, it's my understanding that he was engaged in work business at 9:30, and on the face of it I can't see how he was managing that and driving away from FGM's at the same time.

 

[nightrider17]

If I think that FFC did the drive before engaging the help of AMS then what was the point in going back down the road on foot if you had already done it by car. MOO

 

[JBowie]

Sorry to interrupt the flow for a second, but I just wanted to put this here, because it relates to a question someone had before .... as in "why would BS have been going to the house that day".

Her message said “please call back and let me know if the washing machine part has arrived” the court heard.

The court was told Spedding called back and left a message for her mother later that day, hours after William went missing, saying he had the part and could attend later that day.

Thread 39, post 1,367

That seems at odds with my understanding that there was apparently no record of the FM's call because BS was already making/taking a call on his phone at the time she rang.

I can't access the linked item in that thread. Please advise who it says told the court that BS rang back and said he had the part, etc?

 

[Doesitmakesense]

If I think that FFC did the drive before engaging the help of AMS then what was the point in going back down the road on foot if you had already done it by car. MOO

Good thought, I didn't put that together. But it makes sense, or no sense depending how you look at it

 

[JLZ]

I think the FM drive occurred before FF returned home, or by now we would have heard FF comments about the drive??

If AMS heard FF calling out before she was engaged in the search, the drive must have occured some time between 9:37 and 10:35 (as per Frogwell‘s post re the evidence by AMS)

Or else the timeline is incorrect???

The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'

A grey Mazda which once belonged to William's late foster grandmother was allegedly used by his foster mother near the spot on the NSW mid north coast where the toddler disappeared.

www.dailymail.co.uk

This would make the search of Benaroon down to Batar Creek Road with FM and AMS occurring between 10:35 - 11:56 (time of 000 call)

I also recall that it was FF who suggested that FM call the Police….possibly after FM and AMS returned after that search of Benaroon Drive. (As FM stated in the 000 call that AMS was present)

All IMO

If FFC noticed William had gone quiet by 10:20, there is probably time for a search of FGM's property and a drive before MFC returns.

 

[SLouTh]

If I think that FFC did the drive before engaging the help of AMS then what was the point in going back down the road on foot if you had already done it by car. MOO

To better see in backyards etc?? Or to create the impression that they were actively looking for William IF a it was a “cover up” ???

And possibly the actual purpose of the drive to Cobb and Co was to check Batar Creek Road itself, or possibly to dispose of something in that area, as media have suggested? Rather than searching Benaroon Drive itself?

Reference same article as linked above ……

JMO and suggesting theories for both scenarios …..

 

[Couldbe]

If I think that FFC did the drive before engaging the help of AMS then what was the point in going back down the road on foot if you had already done it by car. MOO

To better see in backyards etc?? Or to create the impression that they were actively looking for William IF a it was a “cover up” ???

And possibly the actual purpose of the drive to Cobb and Co was to check Batar Creek Road itself, or possibly to dispose of something in that area, as media have suggested? Rather than searching Benaroon Drive itself?

Reference same article as linked above ……

JMO and suggesting theories for both scenarios …..

JMO - If the FFC had driven to Cobb and Co earlier, she may have just been pretending that she hadn't been down there.

NB that it did take FFC a while before she actually admitted/stated that she had driven down there!

 

[SLouTh]

FGM was able to think logically, MFC must have known (whether for minutes or longer) of little W's disappearing, if MFC returned "distraught" and began to running around searching.
BUT where was the little sister now in all that chaos?? Nobody is mentioning the sister.

BBM
In this video posted back in the thread by Deugirtni

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

At about 4mins 50 seconds onwards the FF states that William’s sister was with the FM, when he returned home ….when he pulled into the garage …

But you are correct we don’t know much about where she was…..

 

[SLouTh]

In this video of part of FF walk through with the Police …. Right at the beginning ….

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

FF seems to say that FGM was still sitting on the back patio when he arrived home……… indicating that posssibly she had not assisted in the search until after that time?

And (as post above) he states that FM met him in the garage when he arrived home …. Seems correct as he approaches the back grassy play area and back patio from that direction …

IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

In my opinion, no way did she do all of that in the five minutes between 10:30 and 10:35. Even DrSleuth, same timeline, says MFC returned at 10:35.

I think it is probable that the police physically tested the timeline. If you feel that a lot was done in that time frame, it likely did not escape their attention either.

Both Laidlaw and Beacroft said they thought William had disappeared by 10:15.

The searching probably started by 10:20 imo. First in and on the property. Then down the road. A frantic parent searches quickly, moves fast.

 

[FromGermany1]

JMO - If the FFC had driven to Cobb and Co earlier, she may have just been pretending that she hadn't been down there.

NB that it did take FFC a while before she actually admitted/stated that she had driven down there!

If the behavior would have been quite normal, FFC would have had to ask her mother to look along her property (without going there with her ill leg/knee/hip), and watch, whether little W would reappear from any direction. Somebody had to wait for him, in case he came back. Of course this person (FGM) had to be informed, that he was missing at all. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

That seems at odds with my understanding that there was apparently no record of the FM's call because BS was already making/taking a call on his phone at the time she rang.

I can't access the linked item in that thread. Please advise who it says told the court that BS rang back and said he had the part, etc?

Mr Craddock was asking FM about it, during her testimony at the inquest.


He asks if she recalls a message from Bill Spedding that afternoon after William vanished saying “that he had the parts and was able to attend that afternoon”. She says she recalls her mother relaying it to her at some point.
@10NewsFirst @10Daily

Lia Harris Twitter

Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #41

RSBM - Who Else Knew? ONLY days before William Tyrrell was abducted, his grandmother told repairman Bill Spedding she was expecting a stay-over visit from her family and could he fix her faulty washing machine. We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph Is there any info that she told him the actual...

www.websleuths.com

 

[JLZ]

I think it is probable that the police physically tested the timeline. If you feel that a lot was done in that time frame, it likely did not escape their attention either.

Both Laidlaw and Beacroft said they thought William had disappeared by 10:15.

The searching probably started by 10:20 imo. First in and on the property. Then down the road. A frantic parent searches quickly, moves fast.

If the searching started at 10:20, that's entirely different from saying it all happened between 10:30 and 10:56 but also that practically the last of those things happened at 10:35. Just to quote again the timeline you directed me to, numeration by me:

10:30-10:56 :
(1) FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd,
(2) FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” ,
(3) ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive,
(4) got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far,
(5) went back to FGM house,
(6) ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” . . .
. . .
10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go . . .

I maintain again, it is not physically possible to do all of that in 5 minutes. As Laura Beacroft thought William disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15, and the foster family especially FFC were by no means consistent in their accounts (I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be), I don't agree that police would have tested the possibility of specifically this timeline, that FFC went through steps 1-6 in 5 minutes.

 

[Couldbe]

If the behavior would have been quite normal, FFC would have had to ask her mother to look along her property (without going there with her ill leg/knee/hip), and watch, whether little W would reappear from any direction. Somebody had to wait for him, in case he came back. Of course this person (FGM) had to be informed, that he was missing at all. IMO

That's a good point ..... FFGM hasn't mentioned that point in her walkthrough .... the question could be asked: did FFC ask FFGM where the Mazda car keys were? And would surely have asked FFGM to keep a look-out for William re-appearing.

On the other hand, maybe FFC knew where the Mazda keys were, and just disappeared with them and; it may well be that FFGM was unaware of the drive.

 

[SLouTh]

Both Laidlaw and Beacroft said they thought William had disappeared by 10:15.

With due respect SA, when was that tranche of William’s Inquest when this was said? I do agree that it was said by Laidlaw and Beacroft back then … as Beacroft suggests it was as early as 10:05am…. But that is a few years ago now….

But I do wonder, what they think now??? Especially about the time???

It has been reported, by The Telegraph, that Laidlaw was starting to question the FM evidence as far back as July 2019, when the Police released a statement that they could not corroborate the evidence with the FM seeing the two cars……

Reference here

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrell-where-foster-mum-fits-into-missing-toddler-mystery/news-story/65a0ecde5f265bf69beacef17bdfc066

 

[SouthAussie]

If the searching started at 10:20, that's entirely different from saying it all happened between 10:30 and 10:56 but also that practically the last of those things happened at 10:35. Just to quote again the timeline you directed me to, numeration by me:

10:30-10:56 :
(1) FFC ran to AMS’s house, asked if saw little boy in spiderman suit? , AMS said no, suggested bus stop on Crn Benaroon Drive & Batar Creek Rd,
(2) FFC ran to bus stop , heard the “scream” ,
(3) ran back to # 48 Benaroon Drive,
(4) got in FGM car & drove looking for WT, drove down Batar Ck Rd, thought he could not have gotten that far,
(5) went back to FGM house,
(6) ran inside & got her mobile phone, saw message from MFC, she ran out to driveway , just as MFC drove in & asked him “ Have you got William?” . . .
. . .
10:35 : MFC arrives back in Benaroon Drive, meets FFC in driveway asks “ have you go . . .

I maintain again, it is not physically possible to do all of that in 5 minutes. As Laura Beacroft thought William disappeared between 10:05 and 10:15, and the foster family especially FFC were by no means consistent in their accounts (I wouldn't necessarily expect them to be), I don't agree that police would have tested the possibility of specifically this timeline, that FFC went through steps 1-6 in 5 minutes.

But if we add the 10 mins from 10:20 - 10:30 it fits.

Unfortunately, this is the kind of case where seconds seem to count. So for those of us who do not have the police brief, we are counting on the approximation of the times (as I am pretty sure that no-one was watching the clock while searching for William).

If FFC noticed William had gone quiet by 10:20, there is probably time for a search of FGM's property and a drive before MFC returns.

 

[SouthAussie]

With due respect SA, when was that tranche of William’s Inquest when this was said? I do agree that it was said by Laidlaw and Beacroft back then … as Beacroft suggests it was as early as 10:05am…. But that is a few years ago now….

But I do wonder, what they think now??? Especially about the time???

It has been reported, by The Telegraph, that Laidlaw was starting to question the FM evidence as far back as July 2019, when the Police released a statement that they could not corroborate the evidence with the FM seeing the two cars……

Reference here

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/william-tyrrell-where-foster-mum-fits-into-missing-toddler-mystery/news-story/65a0ecde5f265bf69beacef17bdfc066

I dont know at what tranche that was said .... but I did recently read (and I think you did also) Laidlaw's testimony at the end of the inquest - October 2020 - about all of the things that had been done during the investigation, and how every single thing had been done. In his opinion.