Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #71

[SouthAussie]

could fcs be required to give potentially incriminating information about each other, or even choose to, especially if they are separated?
i dont think spousal priviledge is recognised in australia?

Australia’s High Court says “no” to Spousal Privilege – Denver Journal of International Law & Policy

Apparently, the court must weigh up a bunch of factors before deciding whether or not to force a spouse to testify against their partner.

Can I be forced to testify against my family?

Defendants have the right to silence during their trial – but what about their families? Find out when they can object to giving evidence against you in court.

www.sydneycriminallawyers.com.au

 

[k-mac]

RSBM

I think it is highly possible/probable that this could have occurred but for the life of me, I do not understand why the police /media have not reported such a thing. MOO

I don't think LE would show their hand TBH.

moo

 

[SLouTh]

could fcs be required to give potentially incriminating information about each other, or even choose to, especially if they are separated?
i dont think spousal priviledge is recognised in australia?

Australia’s High Court says “no” to Spousal Privilege – Denver Journal of International Law & Policy

Yes possibly Bear....

There was also the report about new clues being investigated, possibly by fresh eyes on the case.....??

Paraphrased:

A senior police officer has reported to The Telegraph that Police have discovered clues / (information) that had not previously been explored .

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

 

[Doesitmakesense]

This Candace Sutton article written December 5, 2021 is not reporting on any result, it is reporting on the lack of result. imo. (Obviously CS isn't on her game either, as in December 2021 she wrote that police have 'now' been ordered an urgent probe into the unexplained 118 minutes, which is the discrepancy, when in fact we know that happened back at the end of August in 2019 - she is revisiting prior articles, which I feel CO has also done when she reported a result.)

The article is also stating that EXIF data 'could' be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons - not that one of those reasons was in fact found. The data 'could' also be 'correct', and have 'other' reasons for being different than the time LE/GJ determined it should be, in conjunction with FFC, imo.

The image has a 'created time' of 7.39am and a 'corrected time' of 9.37am, a new document from the 2000-page evidence brief obtained by The Australian shows.

Police have now been ordered an urgent probe into the 118 unexplained minutes between the time of the photo and when William vanished.

After Coroner Grahame in 2019 ordered a digital forensic expert urgently resolve the time stamp issue, it was determined EXIF data could be displayed incorrectly for a variety of reasons.

This included the camera's time and date settings being set up incorrectly, or not changed from the factory settings to real time.

Ms Smith said the community needed answers about that and the scenario suggested by Richard Donoghue's police statement.

'If there's nothing in it, there' s nothing in it,' she said.

'It could be put to bed so easily. But it needs to be investigated.

'No wonder this case is like it is.'

Why CCTV at local club could prove crucial in William Tyrrell case

I agree with wording is everything. I used to write policies and procedures for businessses in my previous career. Anyone who writes knows the power of a single word, and how using things like "could" instead of "is" changes an entire sentence meaning.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes possibly Bear....

There was also the report about new clues being investigated, possibly by fresh eyes on the case.....??

Paraphrased:

A senior police officer has reported to The Telegraph that Police have discovered clues / (information) that had not previously been explored .

No Cookies | Daily Telegraph

No Cookies

www.dailytelegraph.com.au

CO thinks it is the “Close to giving up, or giving in” statement FM made in an email to the case worker. She says they "rediscovered" the email. And that is her #1 reason for the new-ish interest.

Her #2 reason is police competitiveness, considering CS' recent case resolvement.

Her #3 reason is the allegation of assault.

Behind the silence lies so much pain, and so many questions

Close to giving up, or giving in.

amp.theaustralian.com.au

 

[SLouTh]

CO thinks it is the “Close to giving up, or giving in” statement FM made in an email to the case worker. She says they "rediscovered" the email. And that is her #1 reason for the new-ish interest.

Her #2 reason is police competitiveness, considering CS' recent case resolvement.

Her #3 reason is the allegation of assault.

Behind the silence lies so much pain, and so many questions

Close to giving up, or giving in.

amp.theaustralian.com.au

The same article mentions the new team have looked at "ALL" of the old photos of William, including the one with bruising.. and that the have re read "everyone's" statements from "before and after" William went missing....

Once again, an interesting choice of wording .... imo

 

[SLouTh]

The pictures are still definitely on the table. ( for me.)

I think it would be better for a potential prosecution if it was something else.
Catching them out in multiple deceptions will be hard to dispute.
Hoping its not all tied to changing the date on these pictures.

But lets go there.
Changing the date for a few hours but the same day is sketchy and cunning.

Changing the entire date from a different visit be a very sloppy hard to explain "mistake.'

I know supposedly he got the suit in bali only weeks before.
what if there was a undisclosed trip to kendall?

or the spiderman suit has been proven to be purchased online or previously.
Just because he was wearing it in bali doesn't mean that is where it originated from.
Other than the FP saying so.

What if it is the famed spiderman suit has been in the frame of williams life much longer than stated?

It has been discussed heavily in old threads but not everyone here now was around then and had these conversations.
Now the conversation can be free-er with FM a POI it is worth reflecting on again.




moo

Good point ...
Is it possible that William was not actually wearing the "Spiderman Suit" when he went missing??? Did he accidentally wet or soil it, and was wearing other clothes by the time he went missing??

Have Police found other clothing with William's DNA on it?? Or part of the suit without William?? I know his shoes have been mentioned by media as one possibility....of discrepancy.... but could the Police build an entire case about that???

It has to be something they can "prove" .....

There are so many possibilities for the day in question ..... but they have to be "provable" in a court of law....

Just offering this, as a possibility???? Tossing out thoughts...

 

[Mauig’ma]

When Tranche#2 suddenly came to a halt - August 28th, 2019, not to be resumed until March 9th, 2020, over half a year later.

Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Aug 28
Counsel assisting Gerard Craddock SC just told the court the inquest will be suspended now and resume in March 2020... taking a six month break between hearings. @10NewsFirst

Lia Harris@LiaJHarris·Aug 28
The coroner told the court she understood it “will be frustrating for some” but there are “reasons for it”. It will resume in Taree on March 9, 2020. @10NewsFirst @10Daily
=========================
The Australian reported that an application to have the apparent time stamp discrepancy on the photo examined was made in court not long before the inquest was suddenly adjourned.

Ms Grahame and Mr Craddock agreed on the need for the forensic examination of the photograph.

The inquest into William Tyrrell’s disappearance will resume in March 2020.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/mystery-over-william-tyrrell-photo-throws-doubt-on-timeline-of-boys-disappearance/news-story/219eb525eb0e76070785485909574131

=========================
The Australian understands Ms Grahame last week agreed to an application by Michelle Swift, counsel for William’s biological father, for further forensic testing of the image.

Ms Swift’s application was made in open court shortly before the inquest was suddenly adjourned for seven months. The subject matter wasn’t revealed, and Ms Swift refused to comment. However, Ms Grahame responded to the application by saying the matter needed investigation, and Mr Craddock agreed it was important. Police have been unable to provide the court with an explanation for this terminology, which has in turn created uncertainty.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/nation/timestamp-doubts-over-william-photo/news-story/cf0accb8b602bde307146268bfad49c4

Omg thank you for this. I’m so happy you shared this. Because this here makes things crystal clear for me. No uncertainty from me anymore. <modsnip> Imo It’s more than a coincidence what’s been happening lately. The lies and deception have to do with court being adjourned so swiftly. Imo. And the current charges point to the time stamped pictures evidently. It all makes sense now..imo moo

 

[Sillybilly]

ADMIN NOTE:

Tricia has previously given approval for our trusted members who attended the inquest to post what they saw, heard, their opinions, thoughts and impressions.

As with VIs, WSers are free to apply however much weight they wish to attribute to the information provided. Do not argue with them, challenge them, bicker with them or about them. If you happen to disagree, just scroll and roll or post links to information that may refute what our members are sharing with us.

Please be respectful to those who have attended the inquest and have been gracious enough to take their time to provide information that would not be available to us otherwise.

Thank you.

 

[JBowie]

Re Overington's quoted piece of 2 September 2019 in The Australian:

"Ms Swift’s application was made in open court shortly before the inquest was suddenly adjourned for seven months."

AFAIK, only CO has used the term 'suddenly'. Given that this inquest was undertaken in tranches, it seems to me that a break of 7 months was on the Coroner's calendar for other reasons.

 

[iiiii's]

Before the FFC owned the camera, did she take photos of the children for their story books with her phone? I get the impression the camera was purchased on the Bali trip, is that correct? Did she have to go get her camera from her belongings that morning or does she always keep it handy? I

RSBM

I think it is highly possible/probable that this could have occurred but for the life of me, I do not understand why the police /media have not reported such a thing. MOO

I don't think LE would show their hand TBH.

moo

But what benefit would the police get from not disclosing if the family had visited Kendall or the surrounding area since the FFGF's funeral and before the disappearance?

 

[Detective Willy]

So ALL the police KNOW who is guilty in William's case?

That's not apparent to me. From what we have seen and read, the precinct has been divided over that assumption. Some agree while some disagree.

And we don't know yet if there are any forensics or other evidence found in that big wave of investigation that just took place.

I am impatiently waiting to see what the big lies were alleged in the secret interrogations of the foster parents. Were they relevant and proven or is it going to be nebulous?

Appreciate that you don't agree and I put these questions forward:

1) Do police know a lot more about what happened before and after William's disappearance than we do? 100% they do.
2) Are they keeping the most important information to themselves for operational reasons? 100% they are.
3) Are the "keystone cops" running this investigation or do we have faith in our highest ranking homicide detectives in NSW?

I have faith in the Detectives that are now investigating this case and love the perseverance of the NSW Police in not letting this go. It would be easy to give up and they are not.

If William was abducted then the offender was very clever, very lucky and the 2 carers of William were very ignorant to not see or hear a thing IMO.

The stealth that the "abducter" must have acted with in broad daylight mid morning:

1) to enter the property without being seen
2) to grab William without being seen
3) to bundle William into a car without being seen or anyone hearing a scream
4) to leave Benaroon drive and not be seen or heard when exiting vehicle with William
5) to not be captured on any CCTV
6) to possibly assault, murder and dispose of William without being seen or his remains being found
7) to not discuss this with anyone

Justice for William will take time but the fact that Police are pursuing this now harder than ever is something we should all be happy about IMO.

William would be turning 11 in just under 3 weeks (DOB 26.6.11).

 

[k-mac]

Omg thank you for this. I’m so happy you shared this. Because this here makes things crystal clear for me. No uncertainty from me anymore. <modsnip> Imo It’s more than a coincidence what’s been happening lately. The lies and deception have to do with court being adjourned so swiftly. Imo. And the current charges point to the time stamped pictures evidently. It all makes sense now..imo moo

its in the frame of possibility for sure.

 

[Couldbe]

Before the FFC owned the camera, did she take photos of the children for their story books with her phone? I get the impression the camera was purchased on the Bali trip, is that correct? Did she have to go get her camera from her belongings that morning or does she always keep it handy? I



But what benefit would the police get from not disclosing if the family had visited Kendall or the surrounding area since the FFGF's funeral and before the disappearance?

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

The parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell have spoken for the first time about their son’s disap...

www.9news.com.au

"And my Dad passed away in February that year so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad passed away,...". (BBM using the word 'really' could indicate there had been some type of previous visit!?)

JMO - Publicly contradicting the part of the story by FFC and MFC about the 12 Sep 2014 visit (being the first time really since FFGF's funeral) would be withheld by LE and Media because it would not be prudent in the face of final proof of a previous visit not being available until more recently.

 

[nightrider17]

Police informant to give evidence in trial of William Tyrrell's foster mother

A police informant will be called as a witness during a two-day court hearing for William Tyrrell's foster mother, who denies giving misleading or false information to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.abc.net.au

A police informant will be called as a witness during a two-day court hearing for William Tyrrell's foster mother, who denies giving misleading or false information to the NSW Crime Commission.

Just trying to understand - does police informant - called as a witness - any different to being just a witness?

What is the difference between a witness and a police informant called as a witness. Just trying to understand if these words are chosen specifically and have a different meaning to just being a witness?? MOO

 

[SLouTh]

Appreciate that you don't agree and I put these questions forward:

1) Do police know a lot more about what happened before and after William's disappearance than we do? 100% they do.
2) Are they keeping the most important information to themselves for operational reasons? 100% they are.
3) Are the "keystone cops" running this investigation or do we have faith in our highest ranking homicide detectives in NSW?

I have faith in the Detectives that are now investigating this case and love the perseverance of the NSW Police in not letting this go. It would be easy to give up and they are not.

If William was abducted then the offender was very clever, very lucky and the 2 carers of William were very ignorant to not see or hear a thing IMO.

The stealth that the "abducter" must have acted with in broad daylight mid morning:

1) to enter the property without being seen
2) to grab William without being seen
3) to bundle William into a car without being seen or anyone hearing a scream
4) to leave Benaroon drive and not be seen or heard when exiting vehicle with William
5) to not be captured on any CCTV
6) to possibly assault, murder and dispose of William without being seen or his remains being found
7) to not discuss this with anyone

Justice for William will take time but the fact that Police are pursuing this now harder than ever is something we should all be happy about IMO.

William would be turning 11 in just under 3 weeks (DOB 26.6.11).

Extremely well written post Det Willy..... and thought provoking .....

I think the one thing everyone on the thread has in common, is frustration with the case!

 

[deugirtni]

But what benefit would the police get from not disclosing if the family had visited Kendall or the surrounding area since the FFGF's funeral and before the disappearance?

Isn't that usually the type of thing that comes out during a trial, when the prosecution presents its case... by possibly showing a given defendant lied about whatever? I wouldn't expect police to disclose that at all, after the FPs had publicly stated they hadn't visited since FM's father died. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

The parents of missing toddler William Tyrrell have spoken for the first time about their son’s disap...

www.9news.com.au

"And my Dad passed away in February that year so that was really the first time we’d been back since Dad passed away,...". (BBM using the word 'really' could indicate there had been some type of previous visit!?)

JMO - Publicly contradicting the part of the story by FFC and MFC about the 12 Sep 2014 visit (being the first time really since FFGF's funeral) would be withheld by LE and Media because it would not be prudent in the face of final proof of a previous visit not being available until more recently.

That is very perceptive of you. I searched back to see if I could find another instance of the FPs saying they had not visited since the FGF had died the previous February, and what I found was another instance of uncertainty (hadn't had a chance to visit him since February, doesn't necessarily state the FPs hadn't been back in Kendall at all since February, I suppose?) ETA: as well, FM stated here that 'she' hadn't had a chance to visit her dad, rather than stating 'they' hadn't had a chance to visit? hmmm, interesting, good catch!

starting approx 1:00:

1:01 FM: It was just any other normal day for us when we visit mom's. We got up, the kids are playing, we started to talk about what we were going to do for that day. One of the things we needed to do was to go see my dad's grave. He passed away in February 2014 and just um as things had moved through, for us, I hadn't hadn’t had a, I hadn’t had a chance to um visit him since we'd put him into the ground, so we were planning to do that?

 

[deugirtni]

Before the FFC owned the camera, did she take photos of the children for their story books with her phone? I get the impression the camera was purchased on the Bali trip, is that correct? Did she have to go get her camera from her belongings that morning or does she always keep it handy? ....

Good point. Yes, I believe it was reported the camera had been purchased on the Bali trip, and it was offered up as one of the possible explanations for the time discrepancies on the final photographs. Was this trip the first time the camera had been used?

 

[JBowie]

Isn't that usually the type of thing that comes out during a trial, when the prosecution presents its case... by possibly showing a given defendant lied about whatever? I wouldn't expect police to disclose that at all, after the FPs had publicly stated they hadn't visited since FM's father died. imo.

Yes, usually the only time the public gets to hear actual evidential details of the prosecution's case (assuming it's not a closed court) is either at a committal hearing, or a trial. Before then, it's usually only the charges that are public.

However, police leaks to the media are another thing.