Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[SLouTh]

In quoting from drsleuth's timeline:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52
"10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear a male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house. BBM
"10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.
11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job
11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up theirdriveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen alittle boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard.Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car& drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting binsout etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for theMiller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Millerparked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.
11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive"

JMO...... Regarding the bolded above: I am proposing that FFC purposely waited until MFC arrived back at Benaroon (at 10.35 am) until she commenced approaching neighbours (AMS the first one). During the Inquest: William Tyrrell's foster mother filmed retracing her steps with police
"William's foster mother - who is now a person of interest in the long-running case - described how she drove all the way to a busy road before accepting he was gone after frantically checking with neighbours that he hadn't wandered into their yards." BBM
...... If, as described by FFFC, she drove AFTER checking with neighbours, then:-

1. Why take FFGM's Mazda (when MFC had arrived back home with their vehicle)?;
2. Was FFC seen going/during/returning by anyone (other than the semi-truck driver who flew past her when she had her head out of the window)?
3. 000 call occurred at 10.56 am .... very short period of time (from 10.40 am until 10.56 am = approx 15 mins) for her to procure the keys / jump in the Mazda / reverse out / drive down (including pulling over and stopping before slowly driving on to the Riding School / turning around / driving back / then out of the vehicle before Senior Constable Rowley arrived to see her ( she wasn't still in the car).

SO did that drive happen at the time she said that it did?

Edited for bolding and clarity

Edited again: More importantly that 15 mins had to include FFC going up and grabbing FGM's landline / and returning back downstairs / consulting with MFC about calling 000 / then calling.

Thanks CB … an excellent and well thought out post! Appreciate your effort in putting this together!

 

[seekingjustice**]

What’s been confirmed in msm doesn’t make it true. It’s only what’s been reported to them. Ffm(poi) lied about something le can prove. Imo this is the one thing that they’ve now proved to be wrong. Ffc lied about things. Hopefully we’ll be privy to that info soon. The heat is on and I have hope one of the foster parents will break soon. Truth will prevail imo. Very very soon. Moo

Completely agree! FM didn't have any problem lying to the crime commission and it seems that when she realised that they have enough evidence to prove she lied, she played the 'mental health card'. For all we know, she could be a pathological liar. IMO MOO.

 

[JLZ]

Completely agree! FM didn't have any problem lying to the crime commission and it seems that when she realised that they have enough evidence to prove she lied, she played the 'mental health card'. For all we know, she could be a pathological liar. IMO MOO.

Is she applying for the lying charges to be heard in the Mental Health Court too?

 

[SLouTh]

Ff also stated he had gone to the fgm house 2 weeks prior to help clear up the backyard in preparation for the sale. Did they go that day as a family? Could those photos have been taken that morning 2 weeks prior?

The old saying is “you learn something new every day” … meaning “me” !

How have I missed this piece of information????

Are you able to reference this Chrissy74?? As I would like to know more about this visit to FGM’s…

TIA

 

[seekingjustice**]

Is she applying for the lying charges to be heard in the Mental Health Court too?

Sorry JLZ I should have been more clear. From my understanding, the lying charges were mentioned in MSN as relating to her lying to the crime commission about the assault charge?! - so I feel that they're related because if she is eligible to use the mental health defence for the assault charge, then I'm thinking that she will also be able to use it for the charge relating to giving false or misleading evidence later this year.

 

[JLZ]

I am thinking that this is a definite possibility…..

In my above post, about the car and the drive, another car is mentioned ….
Have Police found this driver?? Is this person possibly a local ???

She told police she drove down Batar Creek Road looking for William and stopped at the riding school to let a car behind her pass, taking a moment to make sure he wasn't nearby.

Twist in William Tyrrell case as police dig up new find

And Police seem to be double checking everything right from the beginning … and this could include witness statements about that day that included information about the entire morning rather than just after 10am …

Strike Force Officer-in-charge Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw said: “Further information has since come to light, as part of our ongoing review of the materials gathered by investigators since the moment William went missing seven years ago.”

“As our team continue to conduct inquiries and explore all avenues of investigation, our focus has been identifying if anything has been missed, or if there are any details – no matter how small – that need to be clarified,” Laidlaw added.

Shock twist in seven-year search for William Tyrrell – OverSixty

NSW Police have confirmed “further information” has “come to light” in the seven-year search for missing toddler William Tyrrell.

oversixty.com.au

Was there one vehicle that passed her or two? Did the truck and the car come from FFC accounts at different times, or is there an account where she mentions both?

 

[SLouTh]

Was there one vehicle that passed her or two? Did the truck and the car come from FFC accounts at different times, or is there an account where she mentions both?

I don’t know the definite answer to that question as yet… however at this stage I am thinking there are two different vehicles … one car and one truck…

From my interpretation of the articles:

FM pulled over and stopped, so the car travelling behind her could pass as she was driving slowly…..(so travelling in the same direction as FM)

And with the truck, it appears to me that the truck was travelling in the opposite direction to FM, and she was off the edge of the road to give the truck more passing room on the road…

ALL IMO

 

[JLZ]

I don’t know the definite answer to that question as yet… however at this stage I am thinking there are two different vehicles … one car and one truck…

From my interpretation of the articles:

FM pulled over and stopped, so the car travelling behind her could pass as she was driving slowly…..(so travelling in the same direction as FM)

And with the truck, it appears to me that the truck was travelling in the opposite direction to FM, and she was off the edge of the road to give the truck more passing room on the road…

ALL IMO

Yes, but . . . we don't think there were two sets of parked cars, because she described them in two configurations (which was in front of which). We don't think there were two teal cars turning at the Millers' because in one story she never saw the driver and in another described him in detail. The car and the truck sound pretty different but that could be another example of FFC's unreliability.

 

[JLZ]

Sorry JLZ I should have been more clear. From my understanding, the lying charges were mentioned in MSN as relating to her lying to the crime commission about the assault charge?! - so I feel that they're related because if she is eligible to use the mental health defence for the assault charge, then I'm thinking that she will also be able to use it for the charge relating to giving false or misleading evidence later this year.

I don't think so. The suitability of making a s14 mental health order would be a separate question for the very different charges.

 

[SLouTh]

Yes, but . . . we don't think there were two sets of parked cars, because she described them in two configurations (which was in front of which). We don't think there were two teal cars turning at the Millers' because in one story she never saw the driver and in another described him in detail. The car and the truck sound pretty different but that could be another example of FFC's unreliability.

I don’t think FM could make eye contact and wave/ acknowledge the driver if the truck was passing her from behind??? IMO

But as you say …. Is that another example of FM “unreliability“….?????

At this point, “who knows” ? imo
But hopefully, SFR are working this out ….

 

[JLZ]

I don’t think FM could make eye contact and wave/ acknowledge the driver if the truck was passing her from behind??? IMO

But as you say …. Is that another example of FM “unreliability“….?????

At this point, “who knows” ? imo
But hopefully, SFR are working this out ….

But how did she make eye contact with the driver who turned at the Millers' if she couldn't see the driver?

I'm not sure she even went for a drive. I'm getting a sense that she has some sort of resistance to telling the same story twice.

 

[SLouTh]

But how did she make eye contact with the driver who turned at the Millers' if she couldn't see the driver?

I'm not sure she even went for a drive. I'm getting a sense that she has some sort of resistance to telling the same story twice.

Because FM was standing in the driveway supervising the bike riding when that eye contact occurred …. Very easy … (referring to the Teal Car)

Where as, if a truck was passing her from behind ….. they would both be sitting on the right hand side of the vehicle…. Behind the steering wheel … one very low in the Mazda and one very high in the truck… very difficult to see across the passenger seat and up at the truck driver … imo

Versus very easy to make contact with a truck coming in the opposite direction … imo

EDIT to add: I don’t think the “Teal Car” is in anyway related to the car on Batar Creek Road…..

 

[SLouTh]

In quoting from drsleuth's timeline:
Australia - Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #52
"10:40 : AMS outside in carport having a cigarette, FFC comes to her fence. AMS could hear a male voice loudly calling for William in the background coming from behind FGM's house. BBM
"10:56 : FFC calls 000 from FGM's landline standing outside, says she has been looking for William for about 15 or 20 minutes.
11:00 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley see's the job
11:00 ish : Mrs Crabb said FFC & MFC came up theirdriveway extremely distressed ( CO book ) The asked me “ Have you seen alittle boy in a spiderman suit?” MFC looked around their backyard.Crabbs had a quick look in their garden before hurrying out in their car& drove to a property who they knew had a pool ( they knew a child who had drowned ) , banged on front door, no-one home. Searched pool.Than went to the Miller’s ( they were collecting mail & putting binsout etc whilst the Miller’s were away) They did not have a key for theMiller’s, knew a relative & drove to get key, went back to Millerparked in their driveway & watched police enter the house. William was not there. BY now people were everywhere calling out his name.
11:06 : Snr Sgt Chris Rowley arrives @ Benaroon Drive"

JMO...... Regarding the bolded above: I am proposing that FFC purposely waited until MFC arrived back at Benaroon (at 10.35 am) until she commenced approaching neighbours (AMS the first one). During the Inquest: William Tyrrell's foster mother filmed retracing her steps with police
"William's foster mother - who is now a person of interest in the long-running case - described how she drove all the way to a busy road before accepting he was gone after frantically checking with neighbours that he hadn't wandered into their yards." BBM
...... If, as described by FFFC, she drove AFTER checking with neighbours, then:-

1. Why take FFGM's Mazda (when MFC had arrived back home with their vehicle)?;
2. Was FFC seen going/during/returning by anyone (other than the semi-truck driver who flew past her when she had her head out of the window)?
3. 000 call occurred at 10.56 am .... very short period of time (from 10.40 am until 10.56 am = approx 15 mins) for her to procure the keys / jump in the Mazda / reverse out / drive down (including pulling over and stopping before slowly driving on to the Riding School / turning around / driving back / then out of the vehicle before Senior Constable Rowley arrived to see her ( she wasn't still in the car).

SO did that drive happen at the time she said that it did?

Edited for bolding and clarity

Edited again: More importantly that 15 mins had to include FFC going up and grabbing FGM's landline / and returning back downstairs / consulting with MFC about calling 000 / then calling.

Another point about this timeline ….

FM told FF that William had only been missing 5minutes, when he arrived home….

I then said … ‘well, where is he? Where has he gone?’ She said, ‘he was here five minutes ago’. I said ‘well where has he gone?’ … She said, ‘I can’t find him’.

https://www.news.com.au/national/nsw-act/william-tyrrells-foster-parents-say-they-have-nothing-to-hide/news-story/7f01c531c8566e1af6f1813af9b19a20

 

[JLZ]

Because FM was standing in the driveway supervising the bike riding when that eye contact occurred …. Very easy … (referring to the Teal Car)

Where as, if a truck was passing her from behind ….. they would both be sitting on the right hand side of the vehicle…. Behind the steering wheel … one very low in the Mazda and one very high in the truck… very difficult to see across the passenger seat and up at the truck driver … imo

Versus very easy to make contact with a truck coming in the opposite direction … imo

EDIT to add: I don’t think the “Teal Car” is in anyway related to the car on Batar Creek Road…..

No, I mean . . . first she said she didn't see any occupants in the car (green-grey at that point). So how could she meet the driver's challenging stare? The story changes. Gains detail.

 

[SLouTh]

No, I mean . . . first she said she didn't see any occupants in the car (green-grey at that point). So how could she meet the driver's challenging stare? The story changes. Gains detail.

Oh I see now…..

Yes I seem to remember that when these extra details were released at the inquest there were some that were surprised, including Police IIRC???

 

[deugirtni]

But how did she make eye contact with the driver who turned at the Millers' if she couldn't see the driver?

I'm not sure she even went for a drive. I'm getting a sense that she has some sort of resistance to telling the same story twice.

I get a sense that FM has some sort of resistance to telling the truth. imo.

 

[SouthAussie]

No, I mean . . . first she said she didn't see any occupants in the car (green-grey at that point). So how could she meet the driver's challenging stare? The story changes. Gains detail.

Isn't it that FM did not see any occupants in the two parked cars? (white car and grey car)

But the man in the grey-green/teal car (that turned in the Miller's driveway) is the man whose stare she met?

imo

 

[sleepinoz]

Was there one vehicle that passed her or two? Did the truck and the car come from FFC accounts at different times, or is there an account where she mentions both?

I'm thinking that this is a mistake by MSM - AFAIK it was only the truck on her drive down Batar Creek Drive.

 

[SouthAussie]

Agree SA … that is also how I read and interpreted the Caselaw Document…

I have wondered (meaning a theory of my own) if these charges were subsequently made because of the FM’s intention to use a Mental Health Defence for the alleged assault charges??
And that Police are possibly thinking that FM may be successful using that defence…???

Would have to double check the dates of all the charges and hearings to confirm this ”theory”…..

imo

The Mental Health Act defence (for the alleged assault) was known about by at least 17th Dec 2021.
The false or misleading evidence charges happened in April 2022.

I read that FD appeared at the Crime Commission on 11th Nov 2021. Presumably FM appeared around the same date.

So, it took 5 months for the police to lay the charges of false or misleading evidence.
Perhaps, as you say, to try to solidify their prosecution of the alleged assault.

William Tyrrell foster parents plead not guilty to assaulting a child

Missing toddler William Tyrrell's foster parents have pleaded not guilty to assaulting a child on Sydney's north shore and the foster mother will apply to be heard under the Mental Health Act.

www.dailymail.co.uk

William Tyrrell's foster mum charged with lying

The foster mother of missing boy William Tyrrell has been charged with lying to the NSW Crime Commission....

www.bluemountainsgazette.com.au

"He testified for up to two hours after being secretly summonsed to appear at the NSWCC Surry Hills headquarters on November 11."

William Tyrrell's foster mother pleads not guilty to lying

William Tyrrell's foster mother has pleaded not guilty to giving false or misleading information to the NSW Crime Commission.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[drsleuth]

S

Sorry Lemony but that doesn’t answer my question of proof that the photos were taken that particular day. The tv was in a position that couldn’t be seen in any of the photos and a clock doesn’t show a date. A created date is not the same as original date or date taken. The word created is self explanatory. And the photos released don’t even say “created date” they just say “created”.

I think that the police are smart enough to work out of these pics were taken on another day, seeing that the coroner ordered a forensic examination into those photos IMO