Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #72

[SLouTh]

I am interested in what your thoughts are about this answer from FFC?

Avoidance…. Definitely….

I think the answer to that specific question is at the heart of this entire case, there is the possibility that William was out of sight much longer than first said…. And there is no way that FM will admit that, as it could /would make her look negligent ….

Whether an abduction or accident occurred….. it would fit the scenario .. IMO

 

[kiwi50]

No, I am not supposing that, but perhaps others are. Seeing that a plan is being spoken about.

If all of these people are in on a plan to dispose of William - who they had loved and cared for, for practically all of his life - they certainly could have thought of another plan that would be more believable. imo

To imagine that this little boy was alive and happy, running around with his sister, then suddenly his FM found him dead, chucked him in the car, and dropped him in the bush at the end of her mother's street seems highly unlikely.

imo

Yes i just can’t see FM either killing William or if finding him dead or seriously injured not calling for help.
Her mum was nearby, to give advice, and being an upstanding local resident, I can’t imagine her going along with a plan to get rid of William,plus FD was due back at any time.

 

[Chrissy74]

Wouldn’t they have just reported an abduction and had an amber alert issued ASAP if this were the case…. ??? Instead of the path that has ensued??

My version of that scenario is, that someone formerly had access to William but no longer did. The person became acquainted with FFC or with the couple, and an arrangement was made to bypass FACS approval. Not to permanently hand William over, but to allow access from time to time. This time something didn't go as planned--there might have been a middle man--and everybody blames the other side.

Sorry JLZ but what exactly do you mean by “access to W”? a shared arrangement? From memory W was removed from bp at 9 months old and given to fp almost immediately. By middle man are you referring to someone having W after he was removed and before he went to ff?

 

[Chrissy74]

I don’t understand this either Prime…..
How would a person even start a conversation to arrange “passing on” of a child .??? isn’t that like dark web material and child trafficking???

And IF a person was going to do that wouldn’t you wait a few days before reporting a child missing, but say it just happened??? And we know William was at MacDonalds the night before….

I just can’t imagine this scenario happening ….. “oh just meet me at 10:15 on Batar Creek Road, in the open, on the side of the road, and I will give you a little boy”….

I just can’t buy that happening ….not in this case…. But JMO

The alternatives Slouth are either
1) W had an accident died and his death was concealed by fp alleging an abduction
Or
2) W was randomly abducted

Although the later has pretty much formed the basis of this entire case up until recently , there is not a shred of solid evidence to back up this theory

If W had an accident I find it hard to believe that he was buried somewhere in close proximity to the fgm house and by pure luck the hundreds of people searching the area didn’t find him.

As for the “passing on” it was only a few months after W disappeared that the fp renovated their “forever home”, was a finical transaction the incentive? Ff had clients names in his phone under names of movie stars (think about that one) Ff had 2 phones one of which had deleted messages between him and the Ffc. Reports on strained relationship between W and ffc.. It would take far less time to pass W on then to bury him don’t you think. And authorities can be notified immediately knowing whoever has him is on their way out of Kendall

 

[SLouTh]

If W had an accident I find it hard to believe that he was buried somewhere in close proximity to the fgm house and by pure luck the hundreds of people searching the area didn’t find him.

I totally agree …..

As for the “passing on” it was only a few months after W disappeared that the fp renovated their “forever home”. Ff had clients names in his phone under names of movie stars. Ff had 2 phones one of which had deleted messages between him and the Ffc. Reports on strained relationship between W and ffc.and there’s more.. so To me there’s something not quite right with this picture.

Also agree there is something “not quite right” with this story … but FF is not the one named as the POI …..

If you were going to “pass on“ a child ….. wouldn’t you go somewhere remote, rather than on the side of the road in the open??? And in broad daylight?? (Especially with so many bush trails around?? ) And at this point Batar Creek Road is the only destination we know about …..

It just defies logic to me …. but that is JMO …..

Is there any actual evidence to back up the theory that William was “passed on”???

I have never thought about “passing on“ a child but if I did “think“ about it… it would be at night in a remote location and not around the corner from my mothers place where I was staying …. And that is just a “quick thought” to such an idea…

IMO

Edit for typo

 

[seekingjustice**]

I totally agree …..

Also agree there is something “not quite right” with this story … but FF is not the one named as the POI …..

If you were going to “pass on“ a child ….. wouldn’t you go somewhere remote, rather than on the side of the road in the open??? And in broad daylight?? (Especially with so many bush trails around?? ) And at this point Batar Creek Road is the only destination we know about …..

It just defies logic to me …. but that is JMO …..

Is there any actual evidence to back up the theory that William was “passed on”???

I have never thought about “passing on“ a child but if I did “think“ about it… it would be at night in a remote location and not around the corner from my mothers place where I was staying …. And that is just a “quick thought” to such an idea…

IMO

Edit for typo

Re-homing William - this is a theory that I hadn't really given a lot of thought too but I can see the reasoning behind others considering this scenario. It would have been an easier option for the FFC to hand him over to another person rather than admit to facs that she was not coping with him and that she wanted to 'give him back'. If she did that, then facs would have likely removed both children from her care.

But what I find hard to imagine is that someone would want to take the risk of 'kidnapping' a child. Would it be a close friend or relative of the FFC? The 'kidnapper' would need to keep William somewhere secluded so that he wasn't recognized for a very long time.

 

[bearbear]

I totally agree …..

Also agree there is something “not quite right” with this story … but FF is not the one named as the POI …..

If you were going to “pass on“ a child ….. wouldn’t you go somewhere remote, rather than on the side of the road in the open??? And in broad daylight?? (Especially with so many bush trails around?? ) And at this point Batar Creek Road is the only destination we know about …..

It just defies logic to me …. but that is JMO …..

Is there any actual evidence to back up the theory that William was “passed on”???

I have never thought about “passing on“ a child but if I did “think“ about it… it would be at night in a remote location and not around the corner from my mothers place where I was staying …. And that is just a “quick thought” to such an idea…

IMO

Edit for typo

i dont believe little w was passed on to someone, but if it did happen, it could have been the night before after their "photo op" at mcdonalds, in the dark after they stopped for the nappy change?

 

[JLZ]

Sorry JLZ but what exactly do you mean by “access to W”? a shared arrangement? From memory W was removed from bp at 9 months old and given to fp almost immediately. By middle man are you referring to someone having W after he was removed and before he went to ff?

First of all, I don't mean anyone in particular, and I'm not saying I believe this is the case either. It's just a handing-over scenario that I incline to more than some other handing-over scenarios.

No. By access, I just mean someone who used to see William and then didn't. It might be that the person used to see him before he was removed from biological parents, or it might be after. Perhaps a relatively distant (biological) family member. Perhaps there was some sort of break between the person and the biological parents. And the proper way for the person to continue to see William would be via a lot of FACS red tape; and depending on the relationship, still no guarantee. To go through the red tape wouldn't suit the person and perhaps it would be inconvenient for the foster family too. So, what I'm suggesting is a conspiracy between the foster family or at any rate FFC and the person in question to allow contact between the person and William without telling FACS. This would be very naughty and if FACS found out it might cost the foster parents their foster future, and also might jeopardize the other person's chance of ever seeing either child again.

But on the day of William's disappearance . . . think of it as a passing of the parcel but the parcel gets dropped and they blame each other.

'Middle man' is just someone between the passers, there was a misunderstanding which involved another person. But it all gets too complicated to explain when the parties have no names or other identifying features.

 

[Chrissy74]

Yes i just can’t see FM either killing William or if finding him dead or seriously injured not calling for help.
Her mum was nearby, to give advice, and being an upstanding local resident, I can’t imagine her going along with a plan to get rid of William,plus FD was due back at any time.

I totally agree …..

Also agree there is something “not quite right” with this story … but FF is not the one named as the POI …..

If you were going to “pass on“ a child ….. wouldn’t you go somewhere remote, rather than on the side of the road in the open??? And in broad daylight?? (Especially with so many bush trails around?? ) And at this point Batar Creek Road is the only destination we know about …..

It just defies logic to me …. but that is JMO …..

Is there any actual evidence to back up the theory that William was “passed on”???

I have never thought about “passing on“ a child but if I did “think“ about it… it would be at night in a remote location and not around the corner from my mothers place where I was staying …. And that is just a “quick thought” to such an idea…

IMO

Edit for typo

I agree with what you’re saying Slouth and to answer your question I’m not sure if throughout this investigation police have uncovered any evidence to support this theory other than the suggestion from Mr Craddock at the inquest.

“Counsel assisting the coroner, Gerard Craddock SC, told Wednesday’s hearing it wasn’t possible – at present – to conclude William was dead.”
Although that suggestion may have changed since the latest searches late last year.

The photos of W supposedly taken on the back veranda that morning are questionable IMO which opens up the possibility that W was passed on the night before after the McDonald’s stop.

Also to have W disappear from the fgm house and not the ff home in Sydney could actually work in the fp favour. Think about things like cctv cameras (which is Kendall near Benaroon drive there was only one which was at the local tennis court, it was a quiet rural area so not as busy as inner city, problems with reception, fgm was well known and respected in the community so connections) all this happening at grandmas may be an advantage

 

[Couldbe]

i dont believe little w was passed on to someone, but if it did happen, it could have been the night before after their "photo op" at mcdonalds, in the dark after they stopped for the nappy change?

If a meeting-up with someone occurred at the time of the 'pull-ups' stop, then the FFGM obliged in claiming to be a witness to William's proof of life up until approx 10.10 am the following morning; would she really lie and do that for them???

 

[Warshawski]

https://m.youtube.com › watchAUDIO_2GB_9_Chris Smith talks to William Tyrrell's parents_September 18 ...

2:50min

Thank you Chrissy. That was very interesting & there was mention of that verbal exchange between her & her Mother. Also mention of them both frantically searching the house etc, none of which was in FFGM’s walkthrough statement.
However, in all the details of her Searching, here, there & everywhere I didn’t hear her say she went for a drive anywhere.

I also found it strange that she talked about William being loved by someone else, and if he can’t be with them, then he needs to be with someone else who will love him….. I find that weird. If my child was missing & I came to the belief that he’d been abducted, I wouldn’t be ‘squishy’ enough to think ‘ oh well, someone else needed a child to love so that's why they’ve taken him’!

Did she hand him over to someone else ? He couldn’t stay with them because she couldn’t cope ….

just my thoughts & wondering.

 

[Chrissy74]

Hi

Thank you Chrissy. That was very interesting & there was mention of that verbal exchange between her & her Mother. Also mention of them both frantically searching the house etc, none of which was in FFGM’s walkthrough statement.
However, in all the details of her Searching, here, there & everywhere I didn’t hear her say she went for a drive anywhere.

I also found it strange that she talked about William being loved by someone else, and if he can’t be with them, then he needs to be with someone else who will love him….. I find that weird. If my child was missing & I came to the belief that he’d been abducted, I wouldn’t be ‘squishy’ enough to think ‘ oh well, someone else needed a child to love so that's why they’ve taken him’!

Did she hand him over to someone else ? He couldn’t stay with them because she couldn’t cope ….

just my thoughts & wondering.

Hi Warshawski.. it’s definitely possible Ffc handed W over to someone else that morning. I find this theory more plausible than hiding W body from an accidental fall. Also explains the lake of accountability lack of remorse for leaving 3yo W unsupervised on the unfenced unfamiliar property. Just my opinion though

 

[Warshawski]

Just a reminder of what has been alleged:

William Tyrrell car seized by cops was 'driven by foster mother'
“The foster mother allegedly made the drive in her mother's car before her husband had returned to the house to join the search for William.

The foster father was away from the house having an online business meeting when William vanished. “

JMO – If it was part of a plan for FFC to take that drive, then she could have had already retrieved the keys to the Mazda (from the kitchen bench) earlier that morning, and that is why FFGM wasn’t aware of that happening ….. especially when considering she was sitting immediately outside of her kitchen bench (unless FFC quietly sneaked there to retrieve them).

Well - i guess that puts to rest the wondering over When her drive occurred ! I had never noticed that written before.

also another refresher from same article ‘A NSW Police source said officers believe an object may have been thrown from the vehicle as it was driven along Batar Road at Kendall.’ … IMO this is possibly what the Truck driver thought was going on.
I’ve always thought it odd that FFC said she had her head out the window looking for William. . how far can you have your ‘head out’ while driving ?
* she said she saw truck coming down the road quite fast
* did the driver see something from a distance
* he acknowledged her
* she thought he was thanking her for pulling over to let her pass
* but she said that wasn’t the case - she had her head out looking for William
Does that mean that she was stopped on side of road ?
If stopped, wouldn’t she get out of car to look, not just stick her head out
Does anyone familiar with those roads know if that road is single lane ?
Is it bitumen road?
Is the side of the road pretty clear or is it bushy or thickly grassed ?
Where are those reeds she talked about hearing a noise in ?

So many questions, so few answer IMO

 

[Warshawski]

I think if there was any plan to dispose of William by those who loved him, there would have been a lot more time allowed in the plan.

That is the thing that makes all of these unusual (imo) theories not fit. Who would allow themselves such a brief time period in which to dispose of a child?

imo

Perhaps part of the plan was to have it not look like a plan. I don’t know how one would go about such a thing SA, and I don’t know what fits, but at the same something did occur because little boys don’t just evaporate. IMO

 

[Warshawski]

What I don’t understand is when the mfc texted ffc and said he’d be home in 5 minutes, why would ffc take off to drive around looking for William ? Why not wait for mfc to get home first? It was only going to be 5 minutes. Then there’s the question if mfc was going m to be home in 5 minutes, how did ffc take her drive and return within those 5 minutes?

I think she was already off on her drive by then, and was either back or almost back when the text from him came through.

 

[Warshawski]

The only question, I have: Why didn't FGM hear her own car leaving the property, when she was sitting outside?? Or did she hear it and wondered quietly to herself, without mentioning it to police?

Just my opinion, but I don’t think she was really too close by the driveway from where sitting on the low patio - her back was to the wall & driveway & reading paper in the ‘last recorded photos’, so possibly quite sheltered from sound.

 

[bearbear]

If a meeting-up with someone occurred at the time of the 'pull-ups' stop, then the FFGM obliged in claiming to be a witness to William's proof of life up until approx 10.10 am the following morning; would she really lie and do that for them???

no, probably not, unless she was somehow confused and really was unfit to give evidence? or worried about repercussions if she didnt lie? i dont believe he was handed over, just that mcdonalds would have been a good place to meet somebody if that did happen

 

[Warshawski]

I don’t understand this either Prime…..
How would a person even start a conversation to arrange “passing on” of a child .??? isn’t that like dark web material and child trafficking???

And IF a person was going to do that wouldn’t you wait a few days before reporting a child missing, but say it just happened??? And we know William was at MacDonalds the night before….

I just can’t imagine this scenario happening ….. “oh just meet me at 10:15 on Batar Creek Road, in the open, on the side of the road, and I will give you a little boy”….

I just can’t buy that happening ….not in this case…. But JMO

I can’t imagine it either SLouTh. And with all my being I don’t want to have to accept that William met his demise at the hands of people who were said to love him / meant to protect him.

Just as I can’t come to grips with the many, many other atrocities that have been committed against children, and against people in general. The sexual abuse, the violence, the starvation, the non-parenting, the DV & murders, the maltreatment, the fraudulent activities & the scams, the drug industry, it’s entrapment & its payback. .. it goes on & on...

I can’t imagine it, I can’t understand how it happens, but it does happen, regularly - with people involved, people asking the questions & making the arrangements... and often these people appear to be ‘regular’ people who are never suspected of ill-doings - then suddenly everything comes out & everyone is shocked!

Personally, I don‘t get the feeling that William voluntarily wandered off into the scrub of his own accord, just as I don’t get the feeling he would’ve wandered off down the road. And while I find FFFC to be verbose & I’m sure there’s elements of truth amongst her statements, I’m concerned that she may have built a scenario in her mind, perhaps as a coping mechanism, that now makes it very difficult to sort fact from fiction.

I can certainly see William running around & possibly down the driveway to see if Daddy was home (particularly since some reports suggest FFFC said to let’s see if Daddy’s coming) or if he was sick of being in trouble over the dice game or whatever & longed for Daddy, who he was close to.

IMO also, there have been many reports that W & Lindsay were both playing hidey on the grass before his disappearance - when did that get negated ?

So somewhere, there is the truth, still to be found.

JMO.

 

[Warshawski]

My version of that scenario is, that someone formerly had access to William but no longer did. The person became acquainted with FFC or with the couple, and an arrangement was made to bypass FACS approval. Not to permanently hand William over, but to allow access from time to time. This time something didn't go as planned--there might have been a middle man--and everybody blames the other side.

uumm - well we know the only people who formerly had access to William - IMO

 

[FromGermany1]

Also to have W disappear from the fgm house and not the ff home in Sydney could actually work in the fp favour. Think about things like cctv cameras (which is Kendall near Benaroon drive there was only one which was at the local tennis court, it was a quiet rural area so not as busy as inner city, problems with reception, fgm was well known and respected in the community so connections) all this happening at grandmas may be an advantage

Nobody had to live in this home at Benaroon Drive afterwards and be haunted by their memories - also an advantage.