Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[SouthAussie]

I'm not sure the girl did feel jealous, and if she did, it's her own business.

It is Prosecutors who say the child was jealous. I imagine they would know this from the secret surveillance.

In June 2022 (first hearing, with Magistrate Feathers) it was the Prosecutor who said "the ten-year-old had become 'jealous' and started 'to act up' when a six-year-old child entered the home."
William Tyrrells foster mum court allegations

I imagine the police (problematic behaviour) and the Prosecutor (jealousy after a 6 year old entered the home) knew what the situation was in the home - from the secret recordings. Still, they left the children there. Did not notify DCJ.

 

[SouthAussie]

48 Benaroon Dr to Queens Lake

www.google.com.au

I am wondering about who inserted 'Williams Resting Place' into the Map as per this link ... and is it related to little William?

Where does the map say that? I am not finding it. I even zoomed in, thinking I could see it then.

There was discussion in the Suzanne Morphew thread about how to add things to google maps. Someone had named the Morphew's house on google maps. Anyone can do it.

 

[Couldbe]

Where does the map say that? I am not finding it. I even zoomed in, thinking I could see it then.

There was discussion in the Suzanne Morphew thread about how to add things to google maps. Someone had named the Morphew's house on google maps. Anyone can do it.

It is located directly below where Queens Lake is marked (along Bobs Creek)

 

[JLZ]

It is Prosecutors who say the child was jealous. I imagine they would know this from the secret surveillance.

In June 2022 (first hearing, with Magistrate Feathers) it was the Prosecutor who said "the ten-year-old had become 'jealous' and started 'to act up' when a six-year-old child entered the home."
William Tyrrells foster mum court allegations

I imagine the police (problematic behaviour) and the Prosecutor (jealousy after a 6 year old entered the home) knew what the situation was in the home - from the secret recordings. Still, they left the children there. Did not notify DCJ.

I don't agree. They knew there was conflict, they knew what accusations were flying about. They don't know what the little girl was thinking and feeling unless she told them and she has the insight and skills to express herself and they have the sensitivity to understand. From overheard audio alone, they don't know. Also they don't KNOW what they say they know about FFC and William. They're big on over-confident assumptions.

Also, feelings are not grounds for punishment, and 'act up' does not describe behaviour, it simply labels it--anything at all--as objectionable.

Perhaps the little girl was mistreating the younger child, and that is the reason she was being punished. Perhaps more will be said about it at the assault hearing. But at present, I haven't heard anything concrete to support the hypothesis that the child was actually misbehaving prior to FFC's abuse.

 

[SouthAussie]

It is located directly below where Queens Lake is marked (along Bobs Creek)

Thanks. I see it now. I wonder how long that has been there. Perhaps since the Queen's Lake area searches, back in the Spedding days?

 

[SouthAussie]

I don't agree. They knew there was conflict, they knew what accusations were flying about. They don't know what the little girl was thinking and feeling unless she told them and she has the insight and skills to express herself and they have the sensitivity to understand. From overheard audio alone, they don't know. Also they don't KNOW what they say they know about FFC and William. They're big on over-confident assumptions.

Also, feelings are not grounds for punishment, and 'act up' does not describe behaviour, it simply labels it--anything at all--as objectionable.

Perhaps the little girl was mistreating the younger child, and that is the reason she was being punished. Perhaps more will be said about it at the assault hearing. But at present, I haven't heard anything concrete support the hypothesis that the child was actually misbehaving prior to FFC's abuse.

Yes, I see your point. How could the prosecutor and police know for sure that the child was jealous.

Perhaps the child was exhibiting classic jealousy behaviour? Perhaps outbursts occurred when the 6 year old was given something new to help set her up in her new home? Perhaps the 10 year old was writing with permanent marker all over the 6 year old's belongings? I don't know. They have said it for some reason, and it likely wouldn't be to defend the defendant.

imo

 

[TootsieFootsie]

I just looked at that map and can see where someone has added "William's resting place"
It's just above Queen's lake
and when you click on it there's a picture of a bush area. The caption there is also William's resting place. Plus it says "cemetary"
The pic also comes up when you hover over it.

 

[JLZ]

I just looked at that map and can see where someone has added "William's resting place"
It's just above Queen's lake
and when you click on it there's a picture of a bush area. The caption there is also William's resting place. Plus it say "cemetary"
The pic also comes up when you hover over it.

There's a green sign but I can't read it. Possibly about aboriginal heritage.

 

[Couldbe]

There's a green sign but I can't read it. Possibly about aboriginal heritage.

21 minute drive journey from 48 Benaroon Dr

 

[JLZ]

Yes, I see your point. How could the prosecutor and police know for sure that the child was jealous.

Perhaps the child was exhibiting classic jealousy behaviour? Perhaps outbursts occurred when the 6 year old was given something new to help set her up in her new home? Perhaps the 10 year old was writing with permanent marker all over the 6 year old's belongings? I don't know. They have said it for some reason, and it likely wouldn't be to defend the defendant.

imo

They might be taking it from what FFC said at the crime commission hearing in explanation for the violence she admitted.

The child might be upset that William is being replaced, not that she herself is getting less attention.

 

[JLZ]

21 minute drive journey from 48 Benaroon Dr

I mean this: Google Maps

 

[Couldbe]

I mean this: Google Maps

Someone will be familiar with it........

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-n sw/criminologist-dr-michael-kennedy-says-tyrrell case-is-a-major-stuffup/news-story/fec3ab9676384c5f909f1e81e2eae576?amp

I think it might be behind a paywall.

Paraphrasing that the end doesn't justify the means and says that NSW has gone down the path of eroding due process

The link doesn't seem to want to paste properly. I've tried a few times to correct it.

Might have to search for the headline

Criminologist Dr Michael Kennedy says Tyrrell case is a ‘major stuff-up’​

 

[SouthAussie]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-n sw/criminologist-dr-michael-kennedy-says-tyrrell case-is-a-major-stuffup/news-story/fec3ab9676384c5f909f1e81e2eae576?amp

I think it might be behind a paywall.

Paraphrasing that the end doesn't justify the means and says that NSW has gone down the path of eroding due process

The link doesn't seem to want to paste properly. I've tried a few times to correct it.

Might have to search for the headline

Criminologist Dr Michael Kennedy says Tyrrell case is a ‘major stuff-up’​

Interesting that Dr Michael Kennedy has " .... worked in various units with the NSW Police over the last 20 years, from the Mounted Police at Redfern to the Major Crime Squad. He now lectures at university and trains students in police work, including how to gather intelligence, how to interview people and how to conduct an undercover operation".


Nov 24, 2014
Police Work: Crimes Against Community - Dr Michael Kennedy

 

[JBowie]

I imagine the police (problematic behaviour) and the Prosecutor (jealousy after a 6 year old entered the home) knew what the situation was in the home - from the secret recordings. Still, they left the children there. Did not notify DCJ.

IMO, the foster parents should have been the ones to notify DCJ (or whoever was their contact) that there were issues. As I understand it, the authorities were notified by the child's school after she told a teacher that she didn't want to go home.

Regarding the police, it's not clear to me when they became aware of the beating. That is, did they listen in real time or, like Jubelin, have to trawl through hours of recordings. If the latter, then the child's teacher may have had the opportunity to intervene earlier.

 

[SouthAussie]

IMO, the foster parents should have been the ones to notify DCJ (or whoever was their contact) that there were issues. As I understand it, the authorities were notified by the child's school after she told a teacher that she didn't want to go home.

Regarding the police, it's not clear to me when they became aware of the beating. That is, did they listen in real time or, like Jubelin, have to trawl through hours of recordings. If the latter, then the child's teacher may have had the opportunity to intervene earlier.

This SMH article has been posted here before. About a SFR officer's own testimony.

It was said in court that "The taskforce did not notify the Department of Communities and Justice about the alleged assault of the child because police were monitoring the home and the children in it, he (Lonergan) said".

Police told William’s foster mother ‘we know where, we know how, we know why’

 

[JLZ]

This SMH article has been posted here before. About a SFR officer's own testimony.

It was said in court that "The taskforce did not notify the Department of Communities and Justice about the alleged assault of the child because police were monitoring the home and the children in it, he (Lonergan) said".

Police told William’s foster mother ‘we know where, we know how, we know why’

Police are mandatory reporters. As far as I know it's not a legal excuse from reporting to be monitoring the situation. They're wedged: either they didn't think what happened constituted abuse, or they were so focussed on nailing FFC they were prepared to sacrifice the child and act illegally.

 

[TootsieFootsie]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-n sw/criminologist-dr-michael-kennedy-says-tyrrell case-is-a-major-stuffup/news-story/fec3ab9676384c5f909f1e81e2eae576?amp

Criminologist Dr Michael Kennedy says Tyrrell case is a ‘major stuff-up’​

To paraphrase a bit more.

There is a presumption of innocence that everyone according to law is entited to.
And it's wrong to say there is only one suspect. Dr Michael Kennedy says that until the case is solved, everyone is a suspect.

 

[JLZ]

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-n sw/criminologist-dr-michael-kennedy-says-tyrrell case-is-a-major-stuffup/news-story/fec3ab9676384c5f909f1e81e2eae576?amp

Criminologist Dr Michael Kennedy says Tyrrell case is a ‘major stuff-up’​

To paraphrase a bit more.

There is a presumption of innocence that everyone according to law is entited to.
And it's wrong to say there is only one suspect. Dr Michael Kennedy says that until the case is solved, everyone is a suspect.

Does he have any ideas about how to progress the investigation?

 

[SLouTh]

In the new Daily Telegraph article linked by Toots …

Kennedy goes on to say “There’s been a major stuff up and police have been expected to get outcomes that aren’t possible.”

“We need to revert back to a time where police were able to be in control of their own investigations and you couldn’t put pressure on them to get outcomes because it worked politically.

Kennedy also states that “If that means a case remains unsolved then so be it, the end doesn’t justify the mean.

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/truecrimeaustralia/police-courts-nsw/criminologist-dr-michael-kennedy-says-tyrrell-case-is-a-major-stuffup/news-story/fec3ab9676384c5f909f1e81e2eae576

The link is paywalled .

He also states that the NSWCC should state the intention of their involvement, in this case, but he says they never will …

Things that we all know, and I think we also know that this case is heading to unsolved ….. and most likely an open coroner‘s finding …