Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sep 2014 - #73

[PrimeSuspect]

What is not in dispute, is whatever happened to William, occurs after these images were taken be it 7:39am or 9:37am.

RSBM

Where’s the link to this information, and why can’t it be disputed?

 

[InFocus]

RSBM

Where’s the link to this information, and why can’t it be disputed?

The point I'm making is everyone on this planet would agree (taking the time out of the equation) that whatever happened to William occurs after the photos are taken etc... i.e nothing happens to him before the photos are taken. Hope that explains my original comment

 

[Doesitmakesense]

FACs have clearly been running the show. Both their department and the police ultimately answer to a government minister. Has the government influenced the direction/misdirection over almost 8 years, only time will tell?

IMO I wouldn't think the government would have much input either way. It could make facs look bad with the case going in some directions, but also make LE look bad with a look drawn out case, with still no resolution in sight. Either way both government agencies, and both a reflection of them

 

[SLouTh]

Why was that vital fact (the adjustment) withheld by Craddock?

It is possible, imo, that Craddock didn’t know??? The “brief of evidence” handed to the Coroner, and her counsel, (Craddock), was prepared by GJ.

None of us know for sure what was in that brief?

Although, one would assume the “last photos” of William were included in the brief… but we do not know what format they were in??? Nor do we know if the meta data information was contained in the “brief“….???

IIRC the meta data information was first pointed out by Peter O’Brien to Counsel for Bio Family, Swift, who then raised the issue with the Coroner..

IMO

 

[Kemug]

I am in no way criticising Laidlaw. He runs William's case, as well as several others. Has come up through the ranks. I think he is a good cop, like the other lead detectives before him.

Detective Laidlaw had a very good result in the case of the murder of Helen Dawson Key in Toongabbie, a suburb of Sydney, in 2014.

 

[SouthAussie]

Detective Laidlaw had a very good result in the case of the murder of Helen Dawson Key in Toongabbie, a suburb of Sydney, in 2014.

As well as SFR, he is still running Strike Force Calligan (disappearance of Unanderra man Goran Nikolovski in 2011) - and he was lead investigator in the (still) unsolved murder of Warilla teen Jye McWatters in 2015.

Like those before him, he has his successes and his frustrations.

Wollongong cop leads search for William Tyrrell

Detective Chief Inspector David Laidlaw has investigated some of the worst crimes in the Illawarra, after he began...

www.illawarramercury.com.au

 

[SouthAussie]

It is possible, imo, that Craddock didn’t know??? The “brief of evidence” handed to the Coroner, and her counsel, (Craddock), was prepared by GJ.

None of us know for sure what was in that brief?

Although, one would assume the “last photos” of William were included in the brief… but we do not know what format they were in??? Nor do we know if the meta data information was contained in the “brief“….???

IIRC the meta data information was first pointed out by Peter O’Brien to Counsel for Bio Family, Swift, who then raised the issue with the Coroner..

IMO

It was in the brief of evidence.


But a newly revealed document from the inquest’s brief of evidence, obtained by The Australian, says the jpeg photograph was “created” at 7.30am and “corrected” at 9.37am.
The report by X-Ways forensic software reads: “Created 12/09/2014 07:39:54 Corrected time: 12/09/2014 09:37:44”.

https://www.news.com.au/national/courts-law/mystery-over-william-tyrrell-photo-throws-doubt-on-timeline-of-boys-disappearance/news-story/219eb525eb0e76070785485909574131

 

[Goldilox]

poor boy - such a long time without anyone held accountable. He didn’t wander off. He has been taken and moved. All that searching. All those people hopeful of finding him. I will never understand how someone can dispose of someone or take someone away from people who care.

 

[drsleuth]

I suggest that the coroner had no prior knowledge that the metadata had been adjusted.

At no time during the inquest does Gerard Craddock SC preface the coroner/inquest by stating we have evidence of photos being created 7:37-39 am however then being corrected/adjusted to 9:37 am etc. He confidently opened his address by using 9:37 am proof of life.

Why was that vital fact (the adjustment) withheld by Craddock?

The coroner immediately ordered an investigation into this matter (time adjustment) once raised by defence counsel and to this day has not been resolved. So the photo/s clearly have not been verified satisfactorily by the coroner to date.

Since time is so central to this case, why is it that the public was told for years, that William disappeared on or around 10:30am?

The 2015 police video interview that was made public had the MFC saying 10:15 am was the last time William was seen and FFC can clearly be heard whispering no no that's not correct. <modsnip: No approved source for this information stated as fact>

There's been a significant momentum shift in the case since the change of leadership to Mr. Laidlaw.

I do find it very interesting that since being in the role, Laidlaw has never renewed public assistance about the alleged 2 cars parked in the street, which the FFC claims. If those 2 cars did exist they should've been made public immediately in September 2014, so that the public could've been on the lookout. I suggest, they never existed and the evidence shows in 2022 that there is no evidence.

BBM : Defence counsel?? This was an inquest, not a trial & there is no defence counsel.

IMO it was not made a big deal of at the inquest. The Bio legal rep Swift made an application ( as many applications are made during an inquest) to have the time looked at. Mr Craddock & the Coroner agreed & said it would be forensically investigated.

We don't know that it has not been resolved to date, it's been reported in MSM that the corrected times are indeed correct.

If it's not been resolved , and it's been 2 years, than there is a problem with this investigation IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I was reading CO's interview with Hans Rupp last night. It is a long piece so I will transcribe just a few comments.
I was particularly interested to read that the cars had been forensically tested. That had always been a question for me. So the retrieval of FGM's (previous) car for testing in Nov 2021 was a double dip.


A forensic search of FGM's house was done three days after William disappeared.
There had been forensic testing of William's foster nana's car, and of the new four wheel drive.
Foster parents had surrendered computers and phones for forensic testing.
William's foster parents told the police the timer on the camera was off by two hours. This has been verified by digital experts.

Source: Missing William Tyrrell by Caroline Overington, chapter 5.

 

[InFocus]

BBM : Defence counsel?? This was an inquest, not a trial & there is no defence counsel.

IMO it was not made a big deal of at the inquest. The Bio legal rep Swift made an application ( as many applications are made during an inquest) to have the time looked at. Mr Craddock & the Coroner agreed & said it would be forensically investigated.

We don't know that it has not been resolved to date, it's been reported in MSM that the corrected times are indeed correct.

If it's not been resolved , and it's been 2 years, than there is a problem with this investigation IMO

My mistake Dr Sleuth about getting counsel terminology wrong. I've just watched too many murder trials (prosecution/defence counsel stuck in my head)

I beg to differ, there was a big deal, Craddock was not happy that Swift had raised it. If the Bios didn't have that legal representation do you honestly think Craddock would've alerted the coroner that time was adjusted? Absolutely not!

I was listening to this Youtube podcast Caroline Overington gave in 2020.
Missing William Tyrell with Caroline Overington
I loved her quote about the truth always rises to the surface. (or similar words to that effect)
MSM has ZERO confirmation about the status of that independent test ordered by the coroner. Some like to imply that it has been confirmed.

There's no problem with the investigation in my mind. If Mr. Laidlaw wants to pursue charges, he will make sure his ducks are all in a row first.

Perhaps the urgency is somewhat reduced given the other (Crime Commission) charges before the courts that the carers are facing with potential jail time if found guilty.

Better three hours too soon than a minute too late. ...

The two most powerful warriors are patience and time. ..

Business as usual I feel for Mr. Laidlaw.

 

[bearbear]

40 years for justice for lynette dawson, i wish hedley thomas, the investigative journalist, would use his skills to help police find what happened to little william

 

[JustInterested77]

40 years for justice for lynette dawson, i wish hedley thomas, the investigative journalist, would use his skills to help police find what happened to little william

I was thinking the same thing!! We need more Hadley’s in this world!!!

IMO JMO

 

[JBowie]

40 years for justice for lynette dawson, i wish hedley thomas, the investigative journalist, would use his skills to help police find what happened to little william

With the Dawson case there has been just one person of interest for all of that time, and his name and image were well known to the public. Two inquests found that he was likely her murderer. Witnesses were willing and able to speak publicly about their knowledge and involvement with the Dawsons. What was missing was any resolve by the DPP to prosecute Dawson, despite police wanting to charge him with murder.

In the Tyrrell case there is apparently one current POI and her name and image cannot be published. The Tyrrell Inquest has not been finalized. IMO there's not much a podcast by anyone can do under those circumstances, other than to recount what we already know (i.e. have been allowed to know).

If Hedley Thomas were to uncover or be given new information then he would be duty bound to bring it to the attention of the police.

 

[Couldbe]

JMO – BBM - I think these are the upcoming Hearings set down for FFC and MFC:-

Secret recordings to be played at hearing as William Tyrrell's foster father denies giving false evidence
"There is a large amount of audio to be played from the interviews," Ms Hydes said.
The hearing — which has been set for October 12 and 13 — will include the 55-year-old's interview with police and other electronic material.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...e/news-story/b45311aa9d49dffe32d5f2e680b87618
The court was told the hearing would be expected to last two days, with the prosecution to call a “police informant” as a witness.
About 500 pages of evidence would form part of the case and some audio recordings from the NSW Crime Commission would be played during the hearing, the court was told before November 3 and 4 were chosen as dates the hearing would take place.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...s/news-story/97f3d6afd026be20948fe44a0d353cdb
“The couple did not appear when their case was mentioned briefly in Parramatta Local Court on Friday.
Magistrate Peter Feather said a hearing into the allegations would take place over three days on January 16, 17 and 18, 2023.”

 

[Marg944]

JMO – BBM - I think these are the upcoming Hearings set down for FFC and MFC:-

Secret recordings to be played at hearing as William Tyrrell's foster father denies giving false evidence
"There is a large amount of audio to be played from the interviews," Ms Hydes said.
The hearing — which has been set for October 12 and 13 — will include the 55-year-old's interview with police and other electronic material.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...e/news-story/b45311aa9d49dffe32d5f2e680b87618
The court was told the hearing would be expected to last two days, with the prosecution to call a “police informant” as a witness.
About 500 pages of evidence would form part of the case and some audio recordings from the NSW Crime Commission would be played during the hearing, the court was told before November 3 and 4 were chosen as dates the hearing would take place.

https://www.news.com.au/national/ns...s/news-story/97f3d6afd026be20948fe44a0d353cdb
“The couple did not appear when their case was mentioned briefly in Parramatta Local Court on Friday.
Magistrate Peter Feather said a hearing into the allegations would take place over three days on January 16, 17 and 18, 2023.”

There is another matter to be heard also Couldbe, at Hornsby Local Court on October 20, 2022.....

William Tyrrell's foster parents are charged with property fraud over alleged 'dummy bids' on a Sydney auction​

'Strike Force Rosann detectives issued Future Court Attendance Notices (FCAN) to a 55-year-old man and a 56-year-old woman,' police said in a statement.
'It will be alleged in court the pair organised a third party to falsely bid for a property at an auction in December 2020.'
The maximum penalty for dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception is 10 years in prison.
They will face Hornsby Local Court on Thursday, October 20.

William Tyrrell's foster parents are charged with property fraud

NSW Police confirmed to Daily Mail Australia that the couple who cannot be named for legal reasons face one count each of dishonestly obtaining financial advantage by deception.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[SouthAussie]

.
Ex-detective Gary Jubelin calls for public inquiry into handling of William Tyrrell case

I guess Jubes is hitting back. A few points from the article (paraphrased).

- Jubes says that leaking information to the press about FM's unrelated charges, and that he 'messed up' the case, is creating a false narrative that is not supported by facts

- Sup Doherty says he stands by their investigation and the current coronial process

- Jubes says in all of his years as a Homicide Detective (25 years according to his book) he has never had a killer express concern that an investigation would be closed down, as FM did

- Jubes thinks everyone should be very careful about speculation before the facts are presented, feels that an external public inquiry may provide answers and determine if everything that can be done has been done

- Jubes says that his own investigation was heavily documented, and signed off up to Assistant Commissioner level, with no criticism at the time

- Jubes questions if FM became a target by unnamed police officers because she publicly supported him when they charged him (she also gave evidence at his trial according to CO's book)

- Doherty says that the police continue to prepare a brief for the coroner

- The coroner confirmed this week that no date has been set for further evidence or delivery of findings

- Police sources say the inquest will not resume until the FP current (unrelated) charges are dealt with


Still no mention of Laidlaw in the article, or his own thoughts on the matter. Sounds, to me, that it is Doherty VS Jubes.
.

 

[SLouTh]

The best part of the article, for me, is that finally we have an update the William’s actual case by Superintendent Doherty.

Paraphrased ….

He said every effort is being channelled toward finding William.

“SFR is continuing to prepare a brief for the information of the coroner, for the purpose of determining what happened to William,” Supt Doherty said.

The investigation is very much active and ongoing.

Doherty wants to assure the community that various activities, including those under coronial orders, are being undertaken every day.

Police are working with a large volume of information and it is necessary to methodically explore and exhaust every line of inquiry; and that is a protracted process.”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/exdetective-gary-jubelin-calls-for-public-inquiry-into-handling-of-william-tyrrell-case/news-story/c728f86b4531a973d24488f7bab5628c?amp&nk=5aaf2639079995757774a36729e51746-1662159038

 

[InFocus]

.
Ex-detective Gary Jubelin calls for public inquiry into handling of William Tyrrell case

I guess Jubes is hitting back. A few points from the article (paraphrased).

- Jubes says that leaking information to the press about FM's unrelated charges, and that he 'messed up' the case, is creating a false narrative that is not supported by facts

- Sup Doherty says he stands by their investigation and the current coronial process

- Jubes says in all of his years as a Homicide Detective (25 years according to his book) he has never had a killer express concern that an investigation would be closed down, as FM did

- Jubes thinks everyone should be very careful about speculation before the facts are presented, feels that an external public inquiry may provide answers and determine if everything that can be done has been done

- Jubes says that his own investigation was heavily documented, and signed off up to Assistant Commissioner level, with no criticism at the time

- Jubes questions if FM became a target by unnamed police officers because she publicly supported him when they charged him (she also gave evidence at his trial according to CO's book)

- Doherty says that the police continue to prepare a brief for the coroner

- The coroner confirmed this week that no date has been set for further evidence or delivery of findings

- Police sources say the inquest will not resume until the FP current (unrelated) charges are dealt with


Still no mention of Laidlaw in the article, or his own thoughts on the matter. Sounds, to me, that it is Doherty VS Jubes.
.

Thanks for paraphrasing the article SA

I notice though you didn't mention what Sup Doherty said which above everything is the most important, that is:

The NSW Police Force said their only focus and the only thing that matters to them is William and that they stand by their investigation and the current coronial process.

Let's just remind ourselves and Mr. Jubelin about being careful before the facts are presented and mention 2 people; Spedding and Savage. There was not a single fact that pointed to Spedding or Savage's involvement, two innocent men in William's disappearance, have since gone on to sue the State of NSW. Mr. Jubelin didn't have the decency to even apologize publicly to both of them.

Even when Spedding presented the receipt for coffee it was Jubelin's team who ignored the truth (fact) of what Spedding was telling them in regards to his movements on the morning of September 12th.

The FM is not a target because she supports him, that is ridiculous, the stuff of fairytales. The FM is a POI because of the many holes in the bucket of her story and timeline. Holes which it appears Mr. Jubelin failed to plug given the current direction by Laidlaw and Co have taken.

Again, was it 10:30 am or 10:10 am, why wasn't that discrepancy brought up by Mr Jubelin when he took over the case? Why did he allow the 10:30 am narrative to continue for years? <modsnip: No approved source for this information stated as fact>

Why didn't Mr. Jubelin ever find those 2 cars in the street?

There's no leaking to the press, the press is reporting on the carers separate to William because it's newsworthy. The public wants to know and should know.

Wasn't it 2GB's Chris Smith who said they were upstanding citizens? How's that going, with all these other charges before the court? They're no different to you or I as members of the public. I question the timing of this article given it's so close to September 12th and Mr. Jubelin is a paid consultant of the Daily Telegraph. Where's Insight Communications disappeared to?

In my opinion, at this current rate, I foreshadow that it may just be Laidlaw landing the final blows!

 

[SLouTh]

There is a second article in the Daily Telegraph today ….

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/gary-jubelin-book-extract-the-spotlight-is-focused-on-william-tyrrells-foster-mother/news-story/f2d7ba4922b48778949202d8cff2f4b6

If you have access it is here ^^^ it is a very long article to paraphrase … will check for any new info ….

The article is an extract from Jubes’ new book …..

EDIT to add, there are now 4 articles today in the DT …