Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #27

[Bohemian]

I also wonder what the statistics are for young abducted children being found and never being found after 3 years like this case?

They seem rare from the reading I've done. DCI Jubelin said himself that the investigation into William's disappearance was 'unique'. In other comments he had me thinking it was also an atypical abduction (but he didn't rule out an accident and is keeping 'an open mind to all possibilities.') He also described it as a 'once in a generation/career type crime'.

The latest media presser was interesting, as was the corresponding NSW Police press release, a little less so his appearance on ACA (that was only due, at times, to the distraction of the visuals and the reporter's commentary).

If you look back in this thread a little way, richieswan posted links to his YouTube uploads of the media presser and ACA report. There's also a link in one of my posts to a transcription of the former, including journos questions and his replies.

 

[JLZ]

Agreed on the first count. Regardless of the motive and MO, I think William's disappearance was the work of a reasoning offender.

Interesting article:

http://ripleeforensicpsych.umwblogs.org/2011/12/15/child-abduction-a-theory-of-criminal-behavior/

A rather naive article I thought; not self-aware or scholarly despite the references. But this was interesting:

In fact, it has been found that child molesters who abducted their victims had a tendency to be under the influence of alcohol during their offense (Prentky, Knight, Burgess, Ressler, Campbell, & Lanning, 1991).

 

[Bohemian]

A rather naive article I thought; not self-aware or scholarly despite the references. But this was interesting:

In fact, it has been found that child molesters who abducted their victims had a tendency to be under the influence of alcohol during their offense (Prentky, Knight, Burgess, Ressler, Campbell, & Lanning, 1991).

I agree, not scholarly but not everyone's a scholar, JLZ. I agree, that paragraph was interesting. Also the one about perpetrators having a criminal history. It made me do a double-take, anyway. I suppose what I took from it overall is that Incidences of disappearances such as William's are rare.

 

[matey]

By legal definition WT & his sister are Foster children. A foster parent has no legal claim to a foster child. As a foster parent you foster a child or children on the understanding someday you might have to return them. The children right now belong to the State.
As far as KT is concerned i think it is unfair to bash her when you don't really know the circumstances. WT & his sister are also very much loved by his biological family too from what we have read in msm.

Karinna...It's interesting that when you do a comparison between the foster care situations in William's case and Tialeigh Palmer's case.

Tialeigh's biological mum had been in prison off and on for quite a few years as stated in msm, as was William's biological dad. However, Tia's mum had shown that she had cleaned up her act and was applying for full custody of Tia from the foster care system and it appeared that she had a good chance of that happening.

However, it appears that Karlie has cleaned up her act (by seeing pics of her with her 2 younger children in her care now on FB) and by doing so, why shouldn't she be given the same opportunity of applying for full custody of her daughter "L" as Tia's bio mum?

Is it because of different States of Australia having different foster care rules, as William's is in NSW and Tialeigh's was in Queensland?

As it appears now, "L" will remain with the foster family full-time and virtually will be raised as an only child (after having had William as her brother for company). She is also a victim of this terrible situation (when you consider that she has 2 younger brothers living with Karlie)...MOO

 

[Bohemian]

700 persons of interest is a lot of people to investigate, det jubelin has recently stated its less likely to be involvement of a paedophile ring, so it seems a lot if its not a ring, who are all these pois? are they friends and associates of family, lone paedophiles, childless couples, are all these people connected 6 degrees of separation etc?

It makes you wonder, doesn't it, bb? It does my head in thinking about the myriad of possibilities.

 

[Hbayne]

Are karlies younger two boys definitely in her full time custody ? Is it assumption made by media and general public based on her fb photos ?. Just speculating as I believe she herself won't speak to the media. There is another family member who posts lots of photos of said boys with herself and her partner. Purely speculating and I don't even believe it's the case myself but certainly worthy of discussion.

 

[Karinna]

Karinna...It's interesting that when you do a comparison between the foster care situations in William's case and Tialeigh Palmer's case.

Tialeigh's biological mum had been in prison off and on for quite a few years as stated in msm, as was William's biological dad. However, Tia's mum had shown that she had cleaned up her act and was applying for full custody of Tia from the foster care system and it appeared that she had a good chance of that happening.

However, it appears that Karlie has cleaned up her act (by seeing pics of her with her 2 younger children in her care now on FB) and by doing so, why shouldn't she be given the same opportunity of applying for full custody of her daughter "L" as Tia's bio mum?

Is it because of different States of Australia having different foster care rules, as William's is in NSW and Tialeigh's was in Queensland?

As it appears now, "L" will remain with the foster family full-time and virtually will be raised as an only child (after having had William as her brother for company). She is also a victim of this terrible situation (when you consider that she has 2 younger brothers living with Karlie)...MOO

ITA agree with what you're saying. And i agree about Tiahleigh's mother, and KT having the opportunity to have done the work necessary to be able to apply for the custody of her child back into her care. We know the tragedies that have happened to both foster children in both of these cases, although TP's murderers have been caught and facing judicial process. WT has yet to be found unfortunately.
I am not sure what the rules are regarding foster care in those states?
I'm not sure what KT's situation is regarding obtaining custody of her daughter because we are not privy to that information. As i said earlier it can be quite a legal battle to get court orders changed for a parent that has lost custodial care of their child or children.

 

[Karinna]

Are karlies younger two boys definitely in her full time custody ? Is it assumption made by media and general public based on her fb photos ?. Just speculating as I believe she herself won't speak to the media. There is another family member who posts lots of photos of said boys with herself and her partner. Purely speculating and I don't even believe it's the case myself but certainly worthy of discussion.

From the SC document. Sounds to me as if KT is in full custody of her other children.
(quote)
The other two siblings, who are younger than Julian, remain in their mother’s care, and there are apparently no current child protection concerns in respect of them.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

https://www.sunshinecoastdaily.com...._source=Sunshine+Coast+Daily&utm_medium=email

A FORMER boxer is about to embark on a 2000km ultra-marathon in the hope that it will help make a safer world for his children.

Billy Tindall will leave Melbourne on Saturday on his 35-day run, reaching the finish line on the Sunshine Coast on Day for Daniel, Friday October 27.

The 27-year-old Caboolture man and five-times Golden Gloves boxing champion will make the solo run in support of the Daniel Morcombe Foundation, travelling 50-60km every day.

 

[Bohemian]

After the daughter got a fresh start first and William some time later, I think the foster parents were asked to take WT also and in addition to the sister. Maybe, they before never had thought of taking 2 children and little Spiderman came to them as a "surprise".
My theory: WT as a little boy was perhaps in some way/by someone less "loved" than the girl and got abducted on a certain order in the hope, problem "boy" would disappear. You know, what I mean?

William arrived at his foster parents' first. His sister joined him there one week later. William's foster parents are not POI, nor are his biological parents, in relation to his disappearance.

 

[Karinna]

William arrived at his foster parents' first. His sister joined him there one week later. William's foster parents are not POI, nor are his biological parents, in relation to his disappearance.

(quote) from the SC doc.
Julian’s sister, who is a year older than Julian and whom I shall call Sarah, had been removed from her mother’s care before Julian was born

 

[Bohemian]

(quote) from the SC doc.
Julian’s sister, who is a year older than Julian and whom I shall call Sarah, had been removed from her mother’s care before Julian was born

Yes, that's correct but she didn't go into care with William's foster parents until a week after he did. I have already posted that information.

 

[Karinna]

Yes, that's correct but she didn't go into care with William's foster parents until a week after he did. I have already posted that information.

Ok, no worries. So LT went into fc first, i gather with other foster carers, and then when WT went into care they were both placed with the people that WT went missing from a week later?

 

[Hbayne]

From the SC document. Sounds to me as if KT is in full custody of her other children.
(quote)
The other two siblings, who are younger than Julian, remain in their mother’s care, and there are apparently no current child protection concerns in respect of them.

Well that seems to back up that she has them in full custody. Question answered thanks for clarification

 

[kiwi50]

What good people the foster parents were. As an older couple it can't have been an easy decision to take William in when they already had his sister and they were so close in age.
You can see what a great life they were giving the children, I hate the snide remarks some posters make about them.
I think it would be extremely cruel for Karlie to try and get her daughter back.
Imagine being seven and sent to live with someone you hardly know, who live a different lifestyle to everything you have known.

 

[Hbayne]

What good people the foster parents were. As an older couple it can't have been an easy decision to take William in when they already had his sister and they were so close in age.
You can see what a great life they were giving the children, I hate the snide remarks some posters make about them.
I think it would be extremely cruel for Karlie to try and get her daughter back.
Imagine being seven and sent to live with someone you hardly know, who live a different lifestyle to everything you have known.

Yes I agree, although it seems William went to them first followed by his sister a week later or so. So lucky they were kept together and had those precious early years living as brother and sister.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes I agree, although it seems William went to them first followed by his sister a week later or so. So lucky they were kept together and had those precious early years living as brother and sister.

And with loving foster parents. And, no doubt, they continue to be loved. As DCI Jubelin said, anyone 'with an ounce of empathy' can understand their unresolved grief — which I'm sure his biological parents share.

 

[Karinna]

What good people the foster parents were. As an older couple it can't have been an easy decision to take William in when they already had his sister and they were so close in age.
You can see what a great life they were giving the children, I hate the snide remarks some posters make about them.
I think it would be extremely cruel for Karlie to try and get her daughter back.
Imagine being seven and sent to live with someone you hardly know, who live a different lifestyle to everything you have known.

I agree with what you say about good foster carers which i would think most of those people are. But there are also the ones where children have come to grief, which is terrible. As poor Tiahleigh and others that have died while in care.
In WT & LT's situation i believe i had read where the BM had had contact with her bio children, but not sure where the information came from?

 

[Karinna]

Yes I agree, although it seems William went to them first followed by his sister a week later or so. So lucky they were kept together and had those precious early years living as brother and sister.

I think that is pretty much standard procedure for children taken into State care that siblings remain together as much as is possible.

 

[Karinna]

And with loving foster parents. And, no doubt, they continue to be loved. As DCI Jubelin said, anyone 'with an ounce of empathy' can understand their unresolved grief — which I'm sure his biological parents share.

Agreed. I think it is an intensely difficult situation all round for sure. Hopefully the police will get answers soon as to what exactly happened to William.