Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #27

[Wexford]

Avid reader for a long time - first post. Forgive me if I muck it up please.... wearing my WS L plates.

* Foster parents ruled out

* Bio parents ruled out

* Pedo ring all but ruled out

* BS moved way down the list of POI's

* Perp connected to Port Macq area -*not necessarily living in the area

This may only leave a non-local who wasn't expected driving into the street for a reason, maybe simply to turn around.

Opportunity or accident?

What are the chances this will ever be solved?

Will William ever be found?

Welcome Josie,
there are many reasons why a local or non-local could have been in the street that day. There were houses for sale, there was bush trails, a tradesman could have been working or doing a quote? Unfortunately the possibilities are endless.......
Where is William?

 

[iailwa]

If you go for a google drive, starting at 256 Batar Creek Road and follow the road back to Kendall, you climb up hill. When at the top of the hill, turn the vehicle 180 degrees and head back towards 256 Batar Creek Road. Look at the houses in the valley on your left. The house is an exact match, driveway and all for the picure of the property with the police in it. I am correct, you are looking at the house at the wrong angle.

froggy if you look closely you will see there's a driveway leading into the house (on it's left side) which isn't in the police photo... I panned in & could definitely see it

 

[iailwa]

 

[iailwa]

above is a close up as i can get of 256 batar creek rd, can anyone see the driveway on the left of the house... had so much trouble loading this. had to use mac, phone won't do it for some reason, so the pixels are even worse having sent it to myself via email

 

[Bohemian]

above is a close up as i can get of 256 batar creek rd, can anyone see the driveway on the left of the house... had so much trouble loading this. had to use mac, phone won't do it for some reason, so the pixels are even worse having sent it to myself via email

I can see a couple of dirt tracks, one that is next to the house.

[*Having the same difficulties with WS since iOS 11 upgrade.]

 

[matey]

I've gone way back to the beginning of William's threads.

I'm wondering whether the "five minutes that William was left alone" scenario is a bit of an "understatement" as five minutes can be such a common phrase.

It may well have been fifteen minutes or something else, but not something you would announce publicly without being branded as totally irresponsible.

Your thoughts on this?

 

[SouthAussie]

I've gone way back to the beginning of William's threads.

I'm wondering whether the "five minutes that William was left alone" scenario is a bit of an "understatement" as five minutes can be such a common phrase.

It may well have been fifteen minutes or something else, but not something you would announce publicly without being branded as totally irresponsible.

Your thoughts on this?

I agree. It could have been 7 minutes, 10 minutes, 12 minutes. It is hard to judge time when you may be assisting a young girl in the loo and putting the kettle on for a cuppa. I don't think it would have been very long. These do not strike me as irresponsible parents. Quite the opposite. But evidently the timing of that short period of time was horrific for William, who had wandered, unbeknown to the mum, around the side of the house.

Just to add, the grandma comes from a generation where children could roam freely and just be home for lunch/dinner or when the street lights came on, or at least (at a younger age) play in any part of the garden, climb trees, roll down grassy slopes ... at least for a short time, on their own. She probably never in her wildest dreams could imagine anything adverse would happen to William if he wandered out of sight for a little while. Otherwise, she probably would have called out to William and/or the mum, to say that William needed to get back here in sight.

They must be bereft every minute of the day, that this short lapse in supervised time ever happened. I feel nothing but empathy for any of them.

.

 

[Bohemian]

I've gone way back to the beginning of William's threads.

I'm wondering whether the "five minutes that William was left alone" scenario is a bit of an "understatement" as five minutes can be such a common phrase.

It may well have been fifteen minutes or something else, but not something you would announce publicly without being branded as totally irresponsible.

Your thoughts on this?

Again, neither the foster parents or the biological parents are involved in the investigation into William’s disappearance. They have been investigated and cleared according to DCI Jubelin. William’s sister still resides with their foster parents. Their fitness to continue caring for her after William’s disappearance would have been assessed by FaCS.

We’ve had extensive discussions about the reported timeline from the time William was last seen on the verandah/porch or heard ‘roaring’ by his foster mother to the time it was realised he had disappeared and reported as missing to 000. Many posters, including me, questioned what we’d heard/read in MSM about the timeline and considered it could be slightly inaccurate.

That said, many posters (also including me) concluded that a misperception of exact times could be fairly typical of any mother occupied by supervising two children, interacting with her own mother and making two cups of tea, only to return to find one of her children missing (rather than ‘understating’ them for fear of ‘being branded as totally irresponsible&#8217.

ETA.

My thoughts? I agree with you and SA that it may have been a longer time period than the reported ‘five minutes’ from the time William’s foster mother or grandmother saw or heard William and realised he was missing. Just what motive I can infer from that report, I don’t know — unless I make a moral judgement about William’s foster mother and grandmother’s as caregivers. On that note, there but for the grace of God, go I and my mother before me.

To my mind, the only person who should be held responsible for William’s disappearance is the person or persons who intervened in his life that day. Not his foster mother, foster grandmother, foster father or, indeed, the circumstances that lead to William being placed in out-of-home care in the first place.

 

[Lemony]

“My two littlest (grandchildren) are here all the time. I cannot leave them. They used to run up and down here on the bikes. They could run up and down on the road. It was idyllic. But now there’s that stigma. You can’t leave your kids to do that.

“If my kids want to ride their bike, I’m right beside them. I can’t take my eyes off them.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/2d8aa4bde6c83ded451c26090fb55643

This grandma lived on Benaroon at the time William disappeared and was comfortable letting her grandchildren play in the street. These children were regular visitors by the sounds of it.
Perhaps William was targeted because the offender knew he was not from the area. The abductor may have felt more comfortable taking a child that was not familiar.

 

[Hbayne]

Brilliant posts south Aussie and Bo. You both found the words I wanted to say and put them out there so eloquently

 

[Bohemian]

“My two littlest (grandchildren) are here all the time. I cannot leave them. They used to run up and down here on the bikes. They could run up and down on the road. It was idyllic. But now there’s that stigma. You can’t leave your kids to do that.

“If my kids want to ride their bike, I’m right beside them. I can’t take my eyes off them.”

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...d/news-story/2d8aa4bde6c83ded451c26090fb55643

This grandma lived on Benaroon at the time William disappeared and was comfortable letting her grandchildren play in the street. These children were regular visitors by the sounds of it.
Perhaps William was targeted because the offender knew he was not from the area. The abductor may have felt more comfortable taking a child that was not familiar.

I agree, Benaroon Drive was reported as being somewhere children could play without their parents fearing for their safety. That is, before William disappeared. William may have been targeted for that reason, that is if he was may abducted by someone he considered a ‘stranger’ and that person used ‘force’.

I am sometimes of the view that the person who may have abducted William could have been acquainted with him, maybe not closely acquainted with him but well enough to put William at ease, at least initially.

But with kids of William’s age, who knows?

The scenario of William, thinking a ‘stranger’ was either his foster father returning home from Lakewood in their car or, indeed, his grandfather reappearing after a long absence (especially as his father was out and he and his sister had been drawing pictures for their Opa just before he disappeared) makes sense to me, in view of my own experience as a child.

As a four year old, I once grabbed the hand of an elderly gentleman on the footpath outside my house and led him inside to my heavily pregnant mother, convinced he was my grandfather come to visit. He wasn’t.

It was fortunate for my mother and I that he was a gentle soul with a wonderful sense of humour. It may not have been such a fortunate experience for us had he been a ‘stranger’ with malintent.

 

[ozazure]

I think the unsaid thing is that Grandma was probably left to supervise William, and that 5 minutes is more likely to be the time frame from the last she saw or heard of him to the time FM went looking. They aren't going to publicly say Grandma was left in charge and he's gone under her supervision. I mean, he was doing something they found reasonable while both of them were out there, going around the side of the house ... but I do think had FM been outside, it probably wouldn't have happened because she is younger, and more in practice monitoring the kids - it is something you are better at when you are in the thick of it. Just layers upon layers of what ifs and remorse for them I imagine, but I don't think their actions that day were in anyway neglectful.

 

[Bohemian]

I think the unsaid thing is that Grandma was probably left to supervise William, and that 5 minutes is more likely to be the time frame from the last she saw or heard of him to the time FM went looking. They aren't going to publicly say Grandma was left in charge and he's gone under her supervision. I mean, he was doing something they found reasonable while both of them were out there, going around the side of the house ... but I do think had FM been outside, it probably wouldn't have happened because she is younger, and more in practice monitoring the kids - it is something you are better at when you are in the thick of it. Just layers upon layers of what ifs and remorse for them I imagine, but I don't think their actions that day were in anyway neglectful.

Beautifully ‘said’.

 

[iailwa]

Just as an aside... I was looking at missing persons in the area (north coast in partic), not kids, but young adults mainly. There seems to be a few, & sometimes they have been related to hitchhiking, as if there could be serial offender around the area. Some offenders may not care how old their victims are - whereas some definitely are age specific in their 'likes'. I found it very interesting that almost 10 years to the day William went missing, so did a young woman, within 100km. You know how anniversaries are often triggers for such things? Just makes me wonder. Also, a guy went missing in very strange circumstances in this area too. His car was found overturned but at low speed, then his clothes were found about 20 km away, and then his body another 12Km or so from that. Sounds like a weird person could be operating in the area, who doesn't give a **** about who he takes out...? just a thought. I could collate a timeline of these missing persons in the next few days if anyone is interested?

 

[Bohemian]

Just as an aside... I was looking at missing persons in the area (north coast in partic), not kids, but young adults mainly. There seems to be a few, & sometimes they have been related to hitchhiking, as if there could be serial offender around the area. Some offenders may not care how old their victims are - whereas some definitely are age specific in their 'likes'. I found it very interesting that almost 10 years to the day William went missing, so did a young woman, within 100km. You know how anniversaries are often triggers for such things? Just makes me wonder. Also, a guy went missing in very strange circumstances in this area too. His car was found overturned but at low speed, then his clothes were found about 20 km away, and then his body another 12Km or so from that. Sounds like a weird person could be operating in the area, who doesn't give a **** about who he takes out...? just a thought. I could collate a timeline of these missing persons in the next few days if anyone is interested?

I would be interested, iailwa. Thank you.

 

[Bohemian]

I’ve been thinking about some of the descriptors DCI Jubelin used in his recent presser wrt William’s disappearance, ie; ‘unique’, once in a career’, ‘once in a generation’.

Trying to think outside of the box, I realised I hold a biased view of William’s abductor or abductors being exclusively male (based on anecdotal evidence* that the majority of abductions, assaults, sexual assaults and murders of children are perpetrated by males).

I did a Google search (Keywords: “kidnap” +”3 year old boy”):

https://www.google.com.au/search?bi...3+year+old+boy”&oq=“kidnap”++”3+year+old+boy”

It brought up quite a few hits of women perpetrating abductions of children of that age, so I included the keyword “woman” in a further search. The results:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=“woman”++“kidnap”++”3+year+old+boy”

There are a few examples of children of William’s age being abducted by a woman, or a man and a woman.

Going to do a bit more research and give this some further thought.

[* Note: No statistics to support this statement (as yet)].

 

[iailwa]

Re: Bowraville Murders. This is just one example where a POI may be interested in several age groups wrt victims, and where the victims may not be of the same racial group. Not saying it's him (no at all!) but just suggesting that any 'age' or 'gender' or 'race', can be suspected with a 'POI'. p.s. he was never convicted for the Bowraville crimes and could very well be innocent... This is an example only of a suspect's varied preferences. To be clear, i am not pointing the finger at him for Bowraville - just giving insight into the complexities of 'possibilities' and 'variances of preferences wrt victims' that can occur with POIs. MOO

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...s/news-story/9e699bc7ee689d22bc4f620b6fc1b958

 

[iailwa]

I’ve been thinking about some of the descriptors DCI Jubelin used in his recent presser wrt William’s disappearance, ie; ‘unique’, once in a career’, ‘once in a generation’.

Trying to think outside of the box, I realised I hold a biased view of William’s abductor or abductors being exclusively male (based on anecdotal evidence* that the majority of abductions, assaults, sexual assaults and murders of children are perpetrated by males).

I did a Google search (Keywords: “kidnap” +”3 year old boy&#8221:

https://www.google.com.au/search?bi...0;kidnap”++”3+year+old+boy”

It brought up quite a few hits of women perpetrating abductions of children of that age, so I included the keyword “woman” in a further search. The results:

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...0;kidnap”++”3+year+old+boy”

There are a few examples of children of William’s age being abducted by a woman, or a man and a woman.

Going to do a bit more research and give this some further thought.

[* Note: No statistics to support this statement (as yet)].

there are so many examples of women & men acting together. Great point! The woman is usually the "lure" for her man, so sick right?

 

[ThaiBali]

Neighbours were said to have arrived onto the street, just a minute before, and a minute after the time when WT is said to have disappeared. There would have been the sounds of *those* vehicles and doors closing. But no screeching away down the street, in any case. It had occurred to me that someone living in a neighbouring house could've snatched him and brought him to their house.. but considering how quickly everything was searched, not sure that could be possible.. and hopefully LE also had their sniffer dogs searching neighbouring properties, but I'm not sure if they did or not?

Just out of curiosity, has anyone ever read that a neighbour mentioned that they had actually seen the children playing in the yard or the driveway that morning at FGM's house? Or was it just the one neighbour who heard, but did not see?

Could be a neighbour who saw him, snatched him, brought him to their home, and THEN left in their own vehicle? (but why??)

This has been my thinking from day one. I think someone has heard him and lured him into a neighbouring house hence the dead silence the FM could hear and her immediately thinking someone had walked up to him and put their hand on his shoulder. She had a 'gut' feeling. I don't think any vehicles were involved nor do think the search of neighbours properties were carried out immediately believing he'd wandered into the bush allowing a window of time for someone nearby to put in a plan of action. <modsnip>
Moo

 

[Bohemian]

This has been my thinking from day one. I think someone has heard him and lured him into a neighbouring house hence the dead silence the FM could hear and her immediately thinking someone had walked up to him and put their hand on his shoulder. She had a 'gut' feeling. I don't think any vehicles were involved nor do think the search of neighbours properties were carried out immediately believing he'd wandered into the bush allowing a window of time for someone nearby to put in a plan of action. <modsnip>
Moo

I have to agree you and deu (and with William&#8217;s foster mother&#8217;s gut feelings), TB. I think it&#8217;s highly likely. Sarah Yule said the person was likely to be visiting, residing, working in Benaroon Drive and DCI Jubelin that it&#8217;s likely they have ties to the Port Macquarie area but don&#8217;t necessarily live there.

At the very least, I suspect the person may have strong ties to Kendall; whether familial or employment-related. I also suspect they knew at least a few of the residents more than just in passing, as well as knowing the surrounding area like the back of their hand.

I think it&#8217;s possible they could be an intelligent person. Also that they knew exactly what they were doing and how best to &#8216;fly under the radar&#8217; so as not arouse more than the fleeting suspicions of locals (and maybe even LAC, at least initially). If not, someone with those traits may have helped the perpetrator &#8216;cover their tracks&#8217;.

Shame about TOS but them&#8217;s the breaks.