Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #28

[Bohemian]

Yes NC said they spent $4500 trying to gain custody. The link many times in this thread.

Yes, she mentioned the word ‘retain’ rather than regain:

’Natalie said she, Karlie and Brendan spent around $4500 to try and retain custody of William.’

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...d/news-story/1a73063218a15527c703ad7d2136710e

God only knows what was going on in William’s life before he was placed with his permanent FP.

 

[Bohemian]

Your, mine and I am sure all those following the case.

Where are you William?

Hopefully, one day his loved ones will know.

 

[Karinna]

There are a myriad of options for foster care:

http://www.community.nsw.gov.au/par...are/become-a-foster-carer/type-of-foster-care

Yes there are. The point of my post with the link & info. provided was more about the permanent placements of children in care. I don't think anything is set in stone if biological parent/s are willing to change and do what is required to get their child or children back into their care. And i'm not only talking specifically about this case but overall.

 

[Karinna]

Hopefully, one day his loved ones will know.

Yes his family deserve to know.

 

[frogwell]

The reporting of WT being removed from his parents care at 11 months in MSM sounds like a mistake to me with 7 months. I can't help feeling very sad for WT's bios despite the dysfunction. I wonder how long before WT was born, was LT taken? Was this something that happened during pregnancy with WT. They were obviously an at risk family that were on FaCs radar, and all of WT's time with them was being monitored. Seems the live in family support from BC's Dad's family or from NC, and we really don't know about KT's family support during that time, but none of it was good enough. As a couple they decided to go into hiding and were caught and had a 2nd child removed. How heartbreaking. And then during another pregancy, one of your removed children goes missing, feared abducted and you can't say anything publicly. If that ain't a case for PTSD, I don't know what is. I am still angry at the protection that the family WT was supposed to be safe with has been afforded since his disappearance, the people he was last seen alive with. I feel somewhat uneasy at the instant family they were in charge of. A lot of people would love to adopt or forster younger children and have a family situation of their own but there are more older children that need to be cared for out there. Seems this forsters got the ideal set up and I can't help but wonder if they were especially considered for the comfortable set up they could provide and possibly inside help from working in the community services sector that arrange forstering and adoptions through their workplace. Moo

 

[Karinna]

Yes NC said they spent $4500 trying to gain custody. The link many times in this thread.

From her mouth to god's ears,:facepalm:

 

[Bohemian]

Yes there are. The point of my post with the link & info. provided was more about the permanent placements of children in care. I don't think anything is set in stone if biological parent/s are willing to change and do what is required to get their child or children back into their care. And i'm not only talking specifically about this case but overall.

Yes, I know. There are quite a few steps along the way, I believe:

http://web.acwa.asn.au/sites/defaul...s/Safe_Home_for_Life_Reforms_Website_Page.pdf

Soso may know of more up-to-date information irt out-of-home care.

 

[sosocurious]

Yes, I know. There are quite a few steps along the way, I believe:

http://web.acwa.asn.au/sites/defaul...s/Safe_Home_for_Life_Reforms_Website_Page.pdf

Soso may know of more up-to-date information irt out-of-home care.

PATHWAYS TO PERMANENCY
THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK
there is a flowchart

On 29 October 2014, child protection legislative amendments were proclaimed as part of Safe Home for Life reforms.
These reforms aim to improve the child protection system in NSW by reducing the number of children and young people at risk of significant harm and provide clear alternatives for those children and young
people who cannot live safely at home.

Pathways to permanency has been developed to provide Family and Community Services staff with guidance for effective permanency planning and to inform decision making, rather than being a
fixed sequential order of preference.

There are five permanency pathways:
1 Family Preservation
2 Restoration
3A Guardianship Orders
3B Parental Responsibility to suitable person(s)
4 (Open) Adoption (for non-Aboriginal children)
5 Long-term parental responsibility order to
the Minister

https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/...1/Pathways-to-Permanency-FINAL-March-2016.pdf

 

[Bohemian]

The reporting of WT being removed from his parents care at 11 months in MSM sounds like a mistake to me with 7 months. I can't help feeling very sad for WT's bios despite the dysfunction. I wonder how long before WT was born, was LT taken? Was this something that happened during pregnancy with WT. They were obviously an at risk family that were on FaCs radar, and all of WT's time with them was being monitored. Seems the live in family support from BC's Dad's family or from NC, and we really don't know about KT's family support during that time, but none of it was good enough. As a couple they decided to go into hiding and were caught and had a 2nd child removed. How heartbreaking. And then during another pregancy, one of your removed children goes missing, feared abducted and you can't say anything publicly. If that ain't a case for PTSD, I don't know what is. I am still angry at the protection that the family WT was supposed to be safe with has been afforded since his disappearance, the people he was last seen alive with. I feel somewhat uneasy at the instant family they were in charge of. A lot of people would love to adopt or forster younger children and have a family situation of their own but there are more older children that need to be cared for out there. Seems this forsters got the ideal set up and I can't help but wonder if they were especially considered for the comfortable set up they could provide and possibly inside help from working in the community services sector that arrange forstering and adoptions through their workplace. MOO

It is a very sad situation for everyone concerned; especially William. We don’t know exactly why William and his sister were taken into out-of-home care, or why their FP were chosen as their carers.

Yes, William disappeared whilst in their care but many children are lost/missing/murdered regardless of their family dynamic. As we’ve read here recently, a potential abductor walked up to a car in broad daylight and would have been able to abduct the eight or nine year old girl inside within a matter of 30 seconds, had not a hotel worker interrupted him.

The only person that should shoulder the blame in this case is the person or persons unknown who intervened in William’s life that fateful day. According to DCI Jubelin, that is neither William’s biological parents, nor his foster parents. Hopefully, William and his loved ones won’t have to wait too much longer to see justice done.

 

[Bohemian]

PATHWAYS TO PERMANENCY
THE LEGAL FRAMEWORK
there is a flowchart

On 29 October 2014, child protection legislative amendments were proclaimed as part of Safe Home for Life reforms.
These reforms aim to improve the child protection system in NSW by reducing the number of children and young people at risk of significant harm and provide clear alternatives for those children and young
people who cannot live safely at home.

Pathways to permanency has been developed to provide Family and Community Services staff with guidance for effective permanency planning and to inform decision making, rather than being a
fixed sequential order of preference.

There are five permanency pathways:
1 Family Preservation
2 Restoration
3A Guardianship Orders
3B Parental Responsibility to suitable person(s)
4 (Open) Adoption (for non-Aboriginal children)
5 Long-term parental responsibility order to
the Minister

https://www.facs.nsw.gov.au/__data/...1/Pathways-to-Permanency-FINAL-March-2016.pdf

I was nearly going to comment that ‘soso is our flowchart guru’ but I didn’t want to put you on the spot. Oh what a ‘Doubting Thomas’

 

[Karinna]

It is a very sad situation for everyone concerned; especially William. We don’t know exactly why William and his sister were taken into out-of-home care, or why their FP were chosen as their carers.

Yes, William disappeared whilst in their care but many children are lost/missing/murdered regardless of their family dynamic. As we’ve read here recently, a potential abductor walked up to a car in broad daylight and would have been able to abduct the eight or nine year old girl inside within a matter of 30 seconds, had not a hotel worker interrupted him.

The only person that should shoulder the blame in this case is the person or persons unknown who intervened in William’s life that fateful day. According to DCI Jubelin, that is neither William’s biological parents, nor his foster parents. Hopefully, William and his loved ones won’t have to wait too much longer to see justice done.

I agree it is a very sad outcome all the way around, especially when WT is still missing and so far no one seems to know what happened to him.
I think the problem with the FP's & Bio's being cleared is that there is no transparency for the FP's in this case, yet the biological parents have been plastered all over the MSM, and KT also has other very young children in her care and i wonder why msm have chosen this type of skewed reporting?

 

[Bohemian]

I agree it is a very sad outcome all the way around, especially when WT is still missing and so far no one seems to know what happened to him.
I think the problem with the FP's & Bio's being cleared is that there is no transparency for the FP's in this case, yet the biological parents have been plastered all over the MSM, and KT also has other very young children in her care and i wonder why msm have chosen this type of skewed reporting?

You might be able to find the answer to your question if you consider just who has been and is speaking to the media. The only fact that was at issue irt the Supreme Court matter was whether it could be revealed that William was in care, and even in the published finding he was given the pseudonym ‘Julian’. He was subsequently named and his in-care status revealed in MSM.

What was not at issue as far as I can see, was whether his biological parents or, indeed, his foster parents, should be named or details of their lives revealed in MSM. Someone made the choice to divulge information about William’s biological parents to the media. Whether that person(s) was Karlie and/or BC (which I doubt), one of William’s family members or an ‘associate’, we can only guess.

 

[frogwell]

It is a very sad situation for everyone concerned; especially William. We don’t know exactly why William and his sister were taken into out-of-home care, or why their FP were chosen as their carers.

Yes, William disappeared whilst in their care but many children are lost/missing/murdered regardless of their family dynamic. As we’ve read here recently, a potential abductor walked up to a car in broad daylight and would have been able to abduct the eight or nine year old girl inside within a matter of 30 seconds, had not a hotel worker interrupted him.

The only person that should shoulder the blame in this case is the person or persons unknown who intervened in William’s life that fateful day. According to DCI Jubelin, that is neither William’s biological parents, nor his foster parents. Hopefully, William and his loved ones won’t have to wait too much longer to see justice done.

DCI Jubelin's public opinion is unreliable. There are other options that could have happened to WT besides being lost or "snatched". Something Fehon seemed to consider when he was in charge. When things happen to other children, their carers or the last people to see them are usually televised and this is often very helpful in progressing the investigation. MOO

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078

Six days after William’s disappearance, *Superintendent Paul Fehon, the boss of Port Macquarie Police, stands outside William’s grandmother’s house, working through various scenarios. There is forest all around. You’d *initially assume William was lost in the bush, he says, but on close inspection the undergrowth is thick and there is only one track through it, *further up a steep hill. It is very difficult terrain for a three-year-old to navigate. Hundreds of people have joined in one of the largest searches ever conducted in the state. Every nearby dam has been pumped or searched by divers. Teams of cadaver dogs have been brought in. Search helicopters have buzzed overhead while volunteers and SES personnel have combed the ground. They’ve found nothing.

So if William was abducted, how was this *possible, Fehon asks? Would an “opportunistic” predator risk it when he could be so easily caught? It’s not the sort of street you just cruise past — it’s out of town and stops dead at the forest. The same goes for a targeted abduction — if it was planned, how did the abductor know William was here? Or that he would run out on to the street? The policeman says to a group of journalists at the scene, “You guys have been here 10 minutes; what do you think has happened to young *William?” We don’t know, and neither does he.

These same issues *trouble veteran homicide detective Gary Jubelin, who took over this case in early February after the retirement of a colleague. Jubelin’s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. “Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he’s not lost, he’s been snatched.” After meticulously investigating William’s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out. They’ve come to the conclusion he was snatched by a stranger; one terrifyingly likely motive is sexual gratification. They are hunting for a paedophile.

 

[sosocurious]

THE biological grandmother of missing toddler William Tyrrell has hit out at the social workers who took him away from his parents as a baby and placed him in foster care.

Heartbroken Natalie Collins, 57, yesterday revealed her son Brendan Collins’ criminal past, drinking problems and rows with William’s mother Karlie Tyrrell. However, she said their behaviour was not enough to put the little boy who was “adored” by his family into care.

“That little boy was my life, we all adored him, he was a beautiful innocent little boy,” Ms Collins said.
“There were rows between my son and (William’s) mother, drinking problems, but not enough for (Family and Community Services) to take William away from them.”

Ms Collins said her son had been released from jail in March while William’s mother no longer spoke to her.
“It’s ripped our family apart, we’ll never be the same now William has gone,’’ she said.
“I think about him every day, and my son does.’’

http://www.news.com.au/national/nsw...s/news-story/b660b01eaac5d1b98dc2d77a168bcca4

She says Brendan bottled up his worries and had never really spoken about the fact that his son William had been abducted and was probably dead.

“Sometimes he just rages, (saying) ‘my kids need me and I need my kids’, louder and louder,” she said.......................

Living with his half brother Mitchell, he was not drinking alcohol or taking drugs.
Brendan and Karlie began having domestic disputes and police were called to the home. Mitchell soon moved out of the house.

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...d/news-story/1a73063218a15527c703ad7d2136710e

She really seems to be implying that her boy were innocent hard working teetotaller until he met K.
Wonder who is to blame for her other sons issues?
imo

 

[Bohemian]

DCI Jubelin's public opinion is unreliable. There are other options that could have happened to WT besides being lost or "snatched". Something Fehon seemed to consider when he was in charge. When things happen to other children, their carers or the last people to see them are usually televised and this is often very helpful in progressing the investigation. MOO

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/new...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078

Six days after William’s disappearance, *Superintendent Paul Fehon, the boss of Port Macquarie Police, stands outside William’s grandmother’s house, working through various scenarios. There is forest all around. You’d *initially assume William was lost in the bush, he says, but on close inspection the undergrowth is thick and there is only one track through it, *further up a steep hill. It is very difficult terrain for a three-year-old to navigate. Hundreds of people have joined in one of the largest searches ever conducted in the state. Every nearby dam has been pumped or searched by divers. Teams of cadaver dogs have been brought in. Search helicopters have buzzed overhead while volunteers and SES personnel have combed the ground. They’ve found nothing.

So if William was abducted, how was this *possible, Fehon asks? Would an “opportunistic” predator risk it when he could be so easily caught? It’s not the sort of street you just cruise past — it’s out of town and stops dead at the forest. The same goes for a targeted abduction — if it was planned, how did the abductor know William was here? Or that he would run out on to the street? The policeman says to a group of journalists at the scene, “You guys have been here 10 minutes; what do you think has happened to young *William?” We don’t know, and neither does he.

These same issues *trouble veteran homicide detective Gary Jubelin, who took over this case in early February after the retirement of a colleague. Jubelin’s first task was a comprehensive review of the search. “Once I was assured that it was a thorough and professional search then, OK, if he’s not lost, he’s been snatched.” After meticulously investigating William’s immediate and wider family the detectives have ruled them out. They’ve come to the conclusion he was snatched by a stranger; one terrifyingly likely motive is sexual gratification. They are hunting for a paedophile.

I respect your opinion frogwell. Mine differs.

 

[sosocurious]

If found alive, Julian will face many issues and challenges, most of them probably larger and more challenging than the stigma associated with being a child in care. I am conscious that, for a child who will probably already be traumatised, coping with the status of being in care will be yet an additional challenge for an already heavily burdened child. However, Julian will have to cope with that status in any event; disclosure will mean only that he will not have control over who may know of it. If found, there is likely to be extensive media coverage of Julian’s disappearance and discovery, which will define Julian’s profile – and for which Julian will be far more widely known – than will knowledge of his in-care status. In other words, because of these events, if found, Julian will not easily be able to escape exposure to attention and comment. Being known to be a child in-care will add little. This reduces its significance, as Hale LJ indicated in Re S: [64]

These considerations may be helpful in thinking carefully about the extent of the interference or limitation proposed and the necessity for each. A comparatively small additional harm to a child who has already suffered so much may not be a sufficient reason to limit reporting of such an important trial. …

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/58853ecfe4b058596cba36a9

 

[Bohemian]

If found alive, Julian will face many issues and challenges, most of them probably larger and more challenging than the stigma associated with being a child in care. I am conscious that, for a child who will probably already be traumatised, coping with the status of being in care will be yet an additional challenge for an already heavily burdened child. However, Julian will have to cope with that status in any event; disclosure will mean only that he will not have control over who may know of it. If found, there is likely to be extensive media coverage of Julian’s disappearance and discovery, which will define Julian’s profile – and for which Julian will be far more widely known – than will knowledge of his in-care status. In other words, because of these events, if found, Julian will not easily be able to escape exposure to attention and comment. Being known to be a child in-care will add little. This reduces its significance, as Hale LJ indicated in Re S: [64]

These considerations may be helpful in thinking carefully about the extent of the interference or limitation proposed and the necessity for each. A comparatively small additional harm to a child who has already suffered so much may not be a sufficient reason to limit reporting of such an important trial. …

https://www.caselaw.nsw.gov.au/decision/58853ecfe4b058596cba36a9

The magic words, ‘if [Wiliiam is] found alive’ or ‘if [he is] found’ . . .

 

[they'll get you]

I think for any of the biological family of WT to have had access to him on the day he went missing, they would of had to of known of the surprise visit to FGM's home in Kendall. I don't think they would of had that information?
And i don't know if foster parents have to inform FACS that the children are going for a mini vacation away from home, and need to get permission from FACS & bio's to do so? So who else knew about it if no permission from the bio parent/s was necessary?
For WT to go missing in such a very short window of time the perp./s would of had to have known and seen him there all alone in the FGM's yard i would think, and would of had to act very quickly.

Bill Spedding was told the washing machine needed to be fixed because the family is coming to visit.

Hey Tony those kids that Ms Loweke knows from Natalie, well they are coming to visit this weekend & I need to fix the machine. I told Marg as well......
IMO everyone knew.


“Ms Loweke is living with Mr Jones’ brother-in-law and she personally knows Bill Spedding”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...t/news-story/295f4d26d06a4b543a3eec6d9d2f8953


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[frogwell]

Bill Spedding was told the washing machine needed to be fixed because the family is coming to visit.

Hey Tony those kids that Ms Loweke knows from Natalie, well they are coming to visit this weekend & I need to fix the machine. I told Marg as well......
IMO everyone knew.


“Ms Loweke is living with Mr Jones’ brother-in-law and she personally knows Bill Spedding”

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/n...t/news-story/295f4d26d06a4b543a3eec6d9d2f8953

Sorry, but I find that scenario is so far fetched. I don't know bout any of you, but I don't have a personal relationship with anyone who came and fixed things at my house years ago. MOO

 

[frogwell]

http://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/pa...d/news-story/1a73063218a15527c703ad7d2136710e
She lists a number of things she says they have failed to investigate, and says the case has been marred by “lies and bulls**t”.

I agree with NC's summation of the case. Goodluck to the rest of you sleuthers, hope you crack it.