Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, NSW, 12 Sept 2014 - #30

[sosocurious]

Yes, because I feel certain that at the time the allegation was put to him, he would have known why JH's parole was revoked and directed the police to investigate. He may also have had an alibi for when this occurred and that person may be dead now. The current police do not seem to want to entertain the idea or acknowledge that JH could have done this even with the information that they have. His original statement would have talked about his brother in law, I imagine. Without his original statement, there is a great possibility that he is disadvantaged in this matter. Was he charged and released, if so he might have a copy of the original statement that police are supposed to give you. If they just interviewed him, I don't know if they have to give you a copy.

Well if he had an alibi - that would be in the police report as well ...wouldn't it?
Isn't it only his statement that has taken a walk.
Hard to crack an alibi if someone is saying you were with them...having coffee, for instance.

"He denied these allegations as I understand it, when police put them to him in 1987 and for whatever reason the prosecution decided not to prosecute (at that time)," Mr Hoyles said............

Court documents state medical examinations of a three-year-old girl and a six-year-old girl concluded they had injuries consistent with penetration.
The grandmother and mother of the alleged victim told police they remembered the three-year-old complaining of soreness and saying: "Bill did it."
Police said charges were not pursued at that time "due to concerns of the welfare of the victims given their tender age".

http://www.smh.com.au/nsw/william-t...phile-ring-police-allege-20150423-1mrvj7.html

The girl has allegedly since told police she then cried and kept her head down as Spedding subjected the three-year-old to a series of sexual assaults.

The three-year-old was examined at a child sexual assault unit in May 1987 with a doctor finding injuries consistent with “penetrating and sexual assault”, the facts state.
While gathering victim statements about these offences, police claim they unearthed other “disturbing allegations” about children performing sex acts on each other.
Spedding also allegedly gave a child to another man to use for sex, court documents state.
However, Spedding has not been charged in relation to these claims.

http://www.news.com.au/national/cri...g/news-story/2a8a51819720492213582b8d70dc61da

When was the six year old examined?
Maybe not at the same time as the three year old.

 

[SouthAussie]

Well if he had an alibi - that would be in the police report as well ...wouldn't it?
Isn't it only his statement that has taken a walk.
Hard to crack an alibi if someone is saying you were with them...having coffee, for instance.

When was the six year old examined?
Maybe not at the same time as the three year old.

RSBM

There must be a heck of a lot of info that we do not know about. There was an 83-page document tendered during Spedding's bail application.


"An 83-page document containing hospital records and allegations of child sexual abuse was tendered in the bail application by Mr Spedding."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html

 

[sosocurious]

RSBM

There must be a heck of a lot of info that we do not know about. There was an 83-page document tendered during Spedding's bail application.


"An 83-page document containing hospital records and allegations of child sexual abuse was tendered in the bail application by Mr Spedding."

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...am-Tyrrell-related-child-rapist-murderer.html

Yes a lot...me thinks.

One of the girls complained in 1987 that 'her body was hurting' and that her private parts 'appeared to be purple and badly bruised'.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ated-child-rapist-murderer.html#ixzz57uSsLSIA

In granting bail, Justice Geoffrey Bellew said one of the girls, who was three at the time of the alleged offence, had no recollection of it and "vague memories of youth" despite a 21-page statement.

He said the reliability of the complainant would probably be an issue and there were concerns about whether both girls were "coached" by an adult in making the claims.

It is what is in that 21 page statement from the now adult victim that interests me. She may have no recollection of one or more specific events.
But what is her recollection. 21 pages of nothing significant seems of little value to the dpp

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-19/william-spedding-granted-bail-in-supreme-court/6558628

Probably be an issue - well that was just his view and here we are at trial.
Fingers crossed justice is served.

 

[Karinna]

There is probably IMO a lot of background information in the BS historic case that we are not privy to, and can only go by what MSM sources have printed about it. From what i have read the historic case only involved the two girls at the time, and one of which according to Judge Bellew's very detailed brief of evidence, pages & pages of it, the at the time 3 yr. old child has no memory of any of it. So that leaves only the other child and what her memories of that are? And who are the other children passed around to paedophiles, are they going to be witnesses to recollect what happened and who was involved? MSM haven't stated anything about that, and have they come forward and who were these other paedophiles involved? And if BS is implicated in that, surely he would know who they are? Heard nothing about that yet either? So maybe more is going on behind the scenes we aren't aware of.

 

[Hbayne]

If there was not enough evidence presented in both spenddings separate charges this case wouldn’t have made it to court . IMO but spoken in very good authority as have been privy first hand as a spouse to how historical sexual abuse matters happen.

 

[Hbayne]

If there was not enough evidence presented in both spenddings separate charges this case wouldn’t have made it to court . IMO but spoken in very good authority as have been privy first hand as a spouse to how historical sexual abuse matters happen.

And to add to that, it’s horrific.

 

[Hbayne]

And to add to that, it’s horrific.

And to add again (sorry) this man in our case was found guilty on every account from 9 boys. He got less than 5 years.

 

[Hbayne]

And to add again (sorry) this man in our case was found guilty on every account from 9 boys. He got less than 5 years.

We got word from police when he was released, two weeks later he killed himself.

 

[Hbayne]

Sorry for banging on but it makes me sick that some can be on here trying to defend a man with so many charges against him

 

[Bohemian]

Sorry for banging on but it makes me sick that some can be on here trying to defend a man with so many charges against him

Me too. I don’t know who you’re posting about — all I can ‘hear’ are crickets

 

[frogwell]

Sorry for banging on but it makes me sick that some can be on here trying to defend a man with so many charges against him

Maybe we are on two extreme ends of the one line. There was a member on here back in earlier threads who's name escapes me but sought professional registration on here as he was a defence lawyer and he was of a similar opinion to myself, that there appears to be refutable facts and a number of motivations from various players in the NSW historical charges. I believe the police had strong motivation to keep the focus on BS even if some "facts" might be questionable, and they have had the ability to harness the media for their stratergies. Like many things that have come out in WT's case, sometimes some people's rights get over ridden at the expense of other people's rights. I am sorry for all the people who have been victims, including myself, who have not found justice or it has come at a high price, BUT, I'll be f........ if I will condemn someone cause lots of other people think I should or not question the police version when things don't make sense to me, or accept the media reporting when it can be open to interpretation. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. We have laws to protect everyone from being persecuted without any proof. This is a crime sleuthing site, do you want to deal in facts or personal experiences and feelings? MOO

 

[frogwell]

Actually I'm not defending him, I'm defending his rights to be processed, ethically, morally and by our societal standards. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Actually I'm not defending him, I'm defending his rights to be processed, ethically, morally and by our societal standards. MOO

BBM

With all due respect, is anyone here saying otherwise? I have not read anyone say that he should be processed in any other way. All I am reading is most of us saying that this case would not be before the courts if there was not enough substantial evidence to put the case there. Evidence agreed upon by the prosecutor and the judge(s).

 

[frogwell]

Do any of you honestly think that the police, with medical evidence and identification of the perp by one of the victims did not persue his conviction because of their worry for the victims tender age? JH was convicted in the earlier 80's against very young girls. Didn't stop the police from persuing him. They didn't persue it cause they thought he did it and was already in jail. Why don't the police want to acknowledge that now? Is that honest? Do any of you think the police would have persued this particular historical case if it wasn't a part of the Wt case? I don't.

 

[frogwell]

With all due respect, is anyone here saying otherwise? I have not read anyone say that he should be processed in any other way. All I am reading is most of us saying that this case would not be before the courts if there was not enough substantial evidence to put the case there. Evidence agreed upon by the prosecutor and the judge(s).

Yes, I think Hbayne has made it clear that anyone who defends BS is making her feel sick. I haven't seen anyone either defending him personally but poking holes in police evidence (maybe) and MSM reporting. MOO

 

[SouthAussie]

Doesn't say what time she left. Indeed, if she drove out just after 10:30, that would place her as a suspect to my thinking. It's near enough to the time William disappeared. And "I wasn't home" would be a dodgy thing to say.

I wonder if it was Paul's wife, who I understand has since died, who drove out just after 10:30.

I have a feeling their stories would have been checked out from the other end. That is, when did they arrive wherever they were going? Did that prove that they went straight there, no stopping along the way, no detours? Maybe CCTV at a shop or wherever shows their route(s) and arrival times?

I doubt that the police would have just torn their homes apart at least three times, searching homes and cars from end to end, without verifying all stories of where people were at the time and shortly thereafter.

.

 

[SouthAussie]

Yes, I think Hbayne has made it clear that anyone who defends BS is making her feel sick. I haven't seen anyone either defending him personally but poking holes in police evidence (maybe) and MSM reporting. MOO

I meant is anyone here saying that due process should not be used? Sorry, I thought I made that clear. Perhaps I should have made that clearer by bolding the part of your post that I was referring to. I will go back and do so.

 

[sosocurious]

Maybe we are on two extreme ends of the one line. There was a member on here back in earlier threads who's name escapes me but sought professional registration on here as he was a defence lawyer and he was of a similar opinion to myself, that there appears to be refutable facts and a number of motivations from various players in the NSW historical charges. I believe the police had strong motivation to keep the focus on BS even if some "facts" might be questionable, and they have had the ability to harness the media for their stratergies. Like many things that have come out in WT's case, sometimes some people's rights get over ridden at the expense of other people's rights. I am sorry for all the people who have been victims, including myself, who have not found justice or it has come at a high price, BUT, I'll be f........ if I will condemn someone cause lots of other people think I should or not question the police version when things don't make sense to me, or accept the media reporting when it can be open to interpretation. The burden of proof is on the accuser, not the accused. We have laws to protect everyone from being persecuted without any proof. This is a crime sleuthing site, do you want to deal in facts or personal experiences and feelings? MOO

April 18, 2015
But Youngberry says there is another reason why police may be unfairly hounding his friend — he says that a former partner of Spedding’s has made vexatious complaints against him for years. “You should look into that,” Youngberry says.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...sh-into-thin-air/story-e6frg6z6-1227308929078
How could toddler William Tyrrell simply vanish into thin air?

April 22, 2015
Police made the arrest about 1.30pm this afternoon at an address at Bonny Hills, near Port Macquarie, and took Mr Spedding into custody.

He was taken to the Port Macquarie Police Station where he is being questioned by police about the alleged sexual assaults of two girls, aged three and six, in 1987 in Sydney.
Officers from Strike Force Rosann stress the arrest does not relate to the disappearance of William Tyrrell.
When detectives asked Mr Spedding to go with them, he screamed: ‘No’.

https://www.theaustralian.com.au/ne...t/news-story/2bff535da761a8f2764fc212094c64d7
William Tyrrell police arrest man, 63, on NSW north coast


Why would mate Colin put it out in the media days before BS was arrested for sexual abuse of children?
The vexatious complaints made by an ex partner would not be enough to charge someone with the crimes BS has been charged with.

I guess it just must have been the time for the child victims who are now adults to speak up and try and seek justice....

Why do you think BS would even bothered asking for a declaration if he had not abused someone when they were a child?
Seems odd to coax/ask someone to do that, if you hadn't.
But she said NO and called the police.
imo

 

[sosocurious]

Do any of you honestly think that the police, with medical evidence and identification of the perp by one of the victims did not persue his conviction because of their worry for the victims tender age? JH was convicted in the earlier 80's against very young girls. Didn't stop the police from persuing him. They didn't persue it cause they thought he did it and was already in jail. Why don't the police want to acknowledge that now? Is that honest? Do any of you think the police would have persued this particular historical case if it wasn't a part of the Wt case? I don't.

JH pleaded guilty. He admitted his abuse and he was charged and sentenced.
Just as AJ sentence was reduced due to his early pleas of guilty had “utilitarian value” within the justice system.

 

[SouthAussie]

He pleaded guilty. He told them what he had done.

He was also not charged in this particular historical case. I see no reason why he would not have been looked at, and even charged, if the girls said "John did it" or " dad did it" or whatever he was to them. And if he had access to the girls at that particular time. He would have been a dead shoo-in. A previously convicted pedophile.


Hillsley has not been charged over these allegations.
https://www.theguardian.com/austral...-seeks-bail-over-historical-sex-abuse-charges