Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #36

[SouthAussie]

"Crown prosecutor Craig Everson said the prosecution would rely on tendency evidence between the two alleged victims and other allegations not the subject of charges on the indictment."

William 'Bill' Spedding makes bid for stay on child sexual assault case

 

[Bohemian]

Those poor victims.
How terrible to be brave enough to put yourself through the angst of a trial, and then not have a favourable outcome ... and then to have the person on your side, the Prosecutor, be forced to withdraw further charges as the tendency evidence was not available.


BBM
Child sexual abuse is thus not uncommon, with somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 7 males, and 1 in 8 to 1 in 3 females having experienced some form of child sexual abuse.

Yet the numbers of incidents of child sexual abuse that enter the criminal justice system and that result in a conviction are very small by comparison. Of child sex offence matters progressing through the New South Wales justice system between 1995 and 2004, fewer than 16% of the cases reported to the police resulted in proven charges.
This was more pronounced in cases involving adult complainants.

Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence
26. Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence

Those are shocking statistics.

 

[Bohemian]

"Crown prosecutor Craig Everson said the prosecution would rely on tendency evidence between the two alleged victims and other allegations not the subject of charges on the indictment."

William 'Bill' Spedding makes bid for stay on child sexual assault case

Not an easy case to prosecute, in either NSW or Victoria (if it was relying on tendency evidence from the NSW trial):

BBM.

‘The court heard some witnesses had died but that was not unusual in historical cases.’

Crown prosecutor Craig Everson said the prosecution would rely on tendency evidence between the two alleged victims and other allegations not the subject of charges on the indictment.

It also emerged some evidence had been lost.’

 

[SouthAussie]

Those are shocking statistics.

Yes, they are.
And I hope that this is considered when a costs hearing is held. We cannot afford to be rewarding predators who are greatly under suspicion due to high police evidence, but not enough evidence to successfully convict.

With 84% of these cases not reaching a successful conclusion in NSW, perhaps it is time for the law to allow the social science evidence that is discussed in the article I linked above.

Too many child victims not having any justice, too many predators walking free.

 

[Bohemian]

Yes, they are.
And I hope that this is considered when a costs hearing is held. We cannot afford to be rewarding predators who are greatly under suspicion due to high police evidence, but not enough evidence to successfully convict.

I agree.

 

[Bohemian]

<rsbm>

With 84% of these cases not reaching a successful conclusion in NSW, perhaps it is time for the law to allow the social science evidence that is discussed in the article I linked above.

Too many child victims not having any justice, too many predators walking free.

This one?

https://aifs.gov.au/sites/default/files/fpl26.pdf

I’ll take a read.

 

[frogwell]

Why is there no other MSM on this story? The public interest is there. All I can say about this situation is, you don't get acquitted unless there is reasonable doubt and with the documents the DPP had with terrible allegations against the defendant, the defence was able to prove reasonable doubt. With the DPP knowing that to begin with, why did they pursue the case? Again in Victoria, why did the DPP decide to prosecute to begin with if it didn't have compelling evidence or less evidence than the NSW case. The damage has been done. BS name has been dragged through the press for about 3.5 years, been held in custody until he could prove just cause, sat through a couple of years of court proceedings which I would have imagined would cost a fortune and vilified on many websites. Mako has him listed as a sex offender and people on there are baying for him to be executed. and when acquitted and charges dropped, it doesn't clear his name in many in society's view. IMO

 

[Bohemian]

Why is there no other MSM on this story? The public interest is there. All I can say about this situation is, you don't get acquitted unless there is reasonable doubt and with the documents the DPP had with terrible allegations against the defendant, the defence was able to prove reasonable doubt. With the DPP knowing that to begin with, why did they pursue the case? Again in Victoria, why did the DPP decide to prosecute to begin with if it didn't have compelling evidence or less evidence than the NSW case. The damage has been done. BS name has been dragged through the press for about 3.5 years, been held in custody until he could prove just cause, sat through a couple of years of court proceedings which I would have imagined would cost a fortune and vilified on many websites. Mako has him listed as a sex offender and people on there are baying for him to be executed. and when acquitted and charges dropped, it doesn't clear his name in many in society's view. IMO

Your guess as good as mine as to why the DPP pursued this case. All I can say is that they must’ve thought they had compelling evidence. Prosecutors know that you win some, you lose some. This one they lost. I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to BS’ plight considering this is a thread for William and he is still missing, presumed dead. Compared to his and his loved ones’ suffering, what BS is, and has been, going through is nothing; as far as I’m concerned. No personal offence meant, froggy.

 

[frogwell]

Your guess as good as mine as to why the DPP pursued this case. All I can say is that they must’ve thought they had compelling evidence. Prosecutors know that you win some, you lose some. This one they lost. I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to BS’ plight considering this is a thread for William and he is still missing, presumed dead. Compared to his and his loved ones’ suffering, what BS is, and has been, going through is nothing; as far as I’m concerned. No personal offence meant, froggy.

That's fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is BS would be traumatised forever by these proceedings and living in hell. The manner in which this was done, which I believe was SFR strategy, is to my mind unforgivable. Taskforce Sano have asked for any historical allegation of CSO's to come forward with the view to either to approach all allegations with a range of options right up to prosecution, with many other options on the table, they chose to prosecute this case. To my mind it has been hinky from the start.

 

[tmar]

Those poor victims.
How terrible to be brave enough to put yourself through the angst of a trial, and then not have a favourable outcome ... and then to have the person on your side, the Prosecutor, be forced to withdraw further charges as the tendency evidence was not available.


BBM
Child sexual abuse is thus not uncommon, with somewhere between 1 in 10 to 1 in 7 males, and 1 in 8 to 1 in 3 females having experienced some form of child sexual abuse.

Yet the numbers of incidents of child sexual abuse that enter the criminal justice system and that result in a conviction are very small by comparison. Of child sex offence matters progressing through the New South Wales justice system between 1995 and 2004, fewer than 16% of the cases reported to the police resulted in proven charges.
This was more pronounced in cases involving adult complainants.

Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence
26. Prosecuting child sexual abuse: The role of social science evidence

Just so horrid, to hear of this outcome.
Poor victims and families.

 

[Bohemian]

That's fair enough, you are entitled to your opinion. Mine is BS would be traumatised forever by these proceedings and living in hell. The manner in which this was done, which I believe was SFR strategy, is to my mind unforgivable. Taskforce Sano have asked for any historical allegation of CSO's to come forward with the view to either to approach all allegations with a range of options right up to prosecution, with many other options on the table, they chose to prosecute this case. To my mind it has been hinky from the start.

I don’t doubt that BS would find the circumstances traumatising, so would his alleged victims; regardless of whether the outcome of the case in NSW was a not guilty verdict and the Victorian charges were dismissed.

As for SFR and Sano Task Force, I am not sure of their aims (or involvement, in the case of SFR).

I said it found it difficult, not impossible to sympathise with BS’ plight. I might find it a little less difficult to be sympathetic if he is cleared of any involvement with William’s suspicious disappearance.

I’m glad we can have differing opinions and be civil with one another.

 

[frogwell]

I don’t doubt that BS would find the circumstances traumatising, so would his alleged victims; regardless of whether the outcome of the case in NSW was a not guilty verdict and the Victorian charges were dismissed.

As for SFR and Sano Task Force, I am not sure of their aims and/or involvement (in the case of SFR).

I said it found it difficult, not impossible to sympathise with BS’ plight. I might find it a little less difficult to be sympathetic if he is cleared of any involvement with William’s suspicious disappearance.

I’m glad we can have differing opinions and be civil with one another.

I think the situation is terrible for all involved. I understand your misgivings about who has pursued the charges but the leader of SFR, GJ was present at BS arrest and front and centre in court when he was charged. One thing I have learned about GJ's methods is that unsubstantiated allegation i.e. s***, when published by MSM, sticks. IMO

 

[Bohemian]

I think the situation is terrible for all involved. I understand your misgivings about who has pursued the charges but the leader of SFR, GJ was present at BS arrest and front and centre in court when he was charged.

True, but he may have just been an ‘observer’, given BS’ status as a POI in William’s case. Do you know if he gave evidence at the NSW trial?

 

[frogwell]

Homicide detectives arrested the 63-year-old at his semi-rural property at Bonny Hills, about seven months after William vanished from the yard of his grandmother's Kendall home wearing his favourite Spider-Man outfit.

The head of the homicide investigation Gary Jubelin visited Mr Spedding's home on Monday and in March when police conducted a three-day bush search between a Lake Cathie and Bonny Hills.
Bill Spedding arrest: Police arrest person of interest in William Tyrrell investigation on unrelated charges

 

[Freddo Frog]

Maybe, NC would have wanted to say, who she thinks is responsible. But she was forbidden to say so, like we are restricted in saying, what we would like to say perhaps.
If I would like to email GJ, which address would I need to know?
-.-
I noticed, that NC in 2018 said with certainty, William and his family changed their plan visiting Kendall and arrived earlier; W and his sister were taken from daycare for this "surprise visit". (wording similar by her)
I'm interested to learn, did she know the fact because of the news like we all on WS too or did she know from another privately source??? Whenever I read her mention, I wondered.

I believe she is only going off news reports. If she knows anything more I would say, to paraphrase Daryl Kerrigan, "tell her she's dreaming."

 

[Bohemian]

Homicide detectives arrested the 63-year-old at his semi-rural property at Bonny Hills, about seven months after William vanished from the yard of his grandmother's Kendall home wearing his favourite Spider-Man outfit.

The head of the homicide investigation Gary Jubelin visited Mr Spedding's home on Monday and in March when police conducted a three-day bush search between a Lake Cathie and Bonny Hills.
Bill Spedding arrest: Police arrest person of interest in William Tyrrell investigation on unrelated charges

Why on earth would Homicide detectives be arresting someone on historical CSA charges? It’s the preserve of the CA&SC Squad. I think the papers got that wrong. I think they assumed they were Homicide detectives because DCI Jubelin was there. I could be wrong.

 

[Freddo Frog]

Also @Freddo Frog you would’ve thought that his half-uncle’s father, being William’s paternal grandfather, would have used any pull he had with the media to help find William. Instead, he seemed almost embarrassed; dismissive of the connection. But, as you said, the police or their manager could’ve said no, or the family didn’t want them involved. In any case, it beats me.

ETA: This is not a criticism of William’s paternal grandfather or his half-uncle. God knows what I would do, given the situation. Scratch that. I know what I would do. Use any and all of my resources at least to help to get the word out. But that’s me. Maybe they did that — anonymously — IDK. If not, I don’t know the reason(s) they didn’t but they must have been (a) good one(s).

I would like to say I give them the benefit of the doubt and that they have been instructed by police to not say anything, but part of me questions the silence by asking is it about protecting the half-uncle's 'brand' or the image of the band? For heaven's sake, they are a very popular bunch of people who could use their international platform to raise awareness (especially in the earlier days when police were casting enquiries around the world). They wouldn't have needed to shout about their connections, just get the word out there. As much as I don't like Schapelle Corby I give her a thumbs up for keeping William in the public eye with her choice of handbag when she knew she was the subject of intense media attention. 5SOS could have done something similar without drawing too much attention to their personal connection. I guess that maybe the half-uncle and his family must be doing something anonymously, too, like donating money to Bravehearts or contributed to the reward.

 

[Bohemian]

<rsbm>

One thing I have learned about GJ's methods is that unsubstantiated allegation i.e. s***, when published by MSM, sticks. IMO

I’ll admit that DCI Jubelin can fight ‘dirty’ but, when I read about some of the cases he’s been involved with and the alleged perpetrators, honestly, I can’t blame him. I’m not sure if I was in his position I wouldn’t use any means necessary (within the law) to seek justice.

 

[SouthAussie]

Your guess as good as mine as to why the DPP pursued this case. All I can say is that they must’ve thought they had compelling evidence. Prosecutors know that you win some, you lose some. This one they lost. I find it very difficult to be sympathetic to BS’ plight considering this is a thread for William and he is still missing, presumed dead. Compared to his and his loved ones’ suffering, what BS is, and has been, going through is nothing; as far as I’m concerned. No personal offence meant, froggy.

I think Spedding will be just fine. He is going after MSM and the courts for damages and costs.

Once he has his little bucketfull of money, if he gets it, he can retire far away from public scrutiny ... change his name, do most whatever he wants.

Yet another possible child sex offender skipping justice (remembering that 84% of child sex cases do not have a result without 'reasonable doubt' and acquittal, because it is a child VS an adult imo) - and this one being smart enough to utilise the law to gain monetary reward.

 

[Bohemian]

I would like to say I give them the benefit of the doubt and that they have been instructed by police to not say anything, but part of me questions the silence by asking is it about protecting the half-uncle's 'brand' or the image of the band? For heaven's sake, they are a very popular bunch of people who could use their international platform to raise awareness (especially in the earlier days when police were casting enquiries around the world). They wouldn't have needed to shout about their connections, just get the word out there. As much as I don't like Schapelle Corby I give her a thumbs up for keeping William in the public eye with her choice of handbag when she knew she was the subject of intense media attention. 5SOS could have done something similar without drawing too much attention to their personal connection. I guess that maybe the half-uncle and his family must be doing something anonymously, too, like donating money to Bravehearts or contributed to the reward.

I can understand your strong feelings about this, Freddo. I have felt very similarly. In all fairness though, even though someone broke the story on SM early in the piece, William’s paternal grandfather and half-uncle wouldn’t have been able to assist publicly due to the suppression order(s) surrounding his ‘complicated family history’. Since the Supreme Court case there has been no such restriction, so I can see your point about the silence emanating from that quarter. For all we know there may have been some financial assistance given to the Where’s William? campaign and/or Bravehearts by that side of the family; albeit anonymously.

btw I’m not sure about Schapelle but good on her anyway.