Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #37

[SouthAussie]

BBM, Why would they have to have visitation at a public shopping centre? That sounds a bit bizarre IMO.
Don't the FACS have anywhere else parents can visit their child at their facility? Like a family room or something?

When we looked at this previously, back in the threads, it seems that the Ryde FACS office is pretty much right at a shopping centre (see map I have added below).

I think that Natalie's words may have been an exaggeration. That (some of) the visits were at the FACS office, which is at a shopping centre (right across the road and amongst shops).

Possibly when Brendan had his irregular visits, the visits were at the FACS office. Maybe when it was just Karlie having visitation, they eased up and had the visitation at other venues as well ... like the park that many of us saw in a photo. From memory, there were presents in the photo. It could have been a birthday or Christmas.

 

[Goosewhisperer]

When we looked at this previously, back in the threads, it seems that the Ryde FACS office is pretty much right at a shopping centre (see map I have added below).

I think that Natalie's words may have been an exaggeration. That (some of) the visits were at the FACS office, which is at a shopping centre (right across the road and amongst shops).

Possibly when Brendan had his irregular visits, the visits were at the FACS office. Maybe when it was just Karlie having visitation, they eased up and had the visitation at other venues as well ... like the park that many of us saw in a photo. From memory, there were presents in the photo. It could have been a birthday or Christmas.

I think there is a play centre there, as some of the photos showed slides etc.

 

[Blues Clues]

I think there is a play centre there, as some of the photos showed slides etc.

Yes that play centre is at Macquarie Shopping Centre at North Ryde.

“Karlie and Brendan could see William for one hour every seven or eight weeks at the Macquarie Centre,” Natalie said.

William Tyrrell’s birth parents hid him two years before he vanished

 

[deugirtni]

Nobody said that WT's name had been changed to that of the FP's.. it merely said that he was 'known' by the public under the FP's name.. which again, for me, highlights the fact that this case was not able to be investigated to the same extent that other missing children cases would be, under the same circumstances.

It worked the exact opposite of what is apparently supposed to happen, in that WT's name was (is) all over the news, when his name should have been the one to have been kept private, as a foster child under FACS jurisdiction, and in consideration of his bio family's private circumstances of having a child in care; and meanwhile the FP's name has been protected all along... meaning that general public in his hometown may not have even associated the huge missing child case with the people under whose care he resided when he disappeared. As such, circumstances did not welcome or allow the opportunity for the usual tips from the public, if any, that may be received in such a case. jmo.

 

[SouthAussie]

Nobody said that WT's name had been changed to that of the FP's.. it merely said that he was 'known' by the public under the FP's name.. which again, for me, highlights the fact that this case was not able to be investigated to the same extent that other missing children cases would be, under the same circumstances.

It worked the exact opposite of what is apparently supposed to happen, in that WT's name was (is) all over the news, when his name should have been the one to have been kept private, as a foster child under FACS jurisdiction, and in consideration of his bio family's private circumstances of having a child in care; and meanwhile the FP's name has been protected all along... meaning that general public in his hometown may not have even associated the huge missing child case with the people under whose care he resided when he disappeared. As such, circumstances did not welcome or allow the opportunity for the usual tips from the public, if any, that may be received in such a case. jmo.

Regardless of how some may feel, there is a little girl who deserves great protection, too. Who deserves a life where she can try to adjust from this terrible thing that has happened, in the love and security of her family and environment.

The spotlight has not been put on the foster parents because they have been independently cleared by the police, their movements will have been checked and verified, relevant CCTV and witnesses will have been checked and reviewed, mobile pings and usage will have been looked at, and they will not be subject in the media to the horrible musings about them that is found on some SM sites.

I believe that if William's sister was not in the picture as a foster child, all of the parents names would have been revealed .. as has been done when a foster child has gone missing and no other foster children are present in the household.

The bottom line is ... William's sister is also very important, as is her safety and privacy.

 

[papertrail]

I agree, the source is unreliable. However, supervised visits were the go, and there was a reason for that ... whatever that reason may have been.


Before his disappearance in September 2014, William did have supervised visits with his mother, contrary to some media reports.
However it’s understood these visits were infrequent and that William identified his foster family as his parents and was known to the public by their surname (which can’t be disclosed) and not “Tyrrell”.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

This article states WT was known by his foster family name so I take it the same goes for his female sibling L.

Did the foster family have their telephone listed openly in telephone directory therefore their address would be known? Which surname was applied to WT and LT? fm or ff surname?

Foster family and children were in Kendall Christmas 2013 and attended neighbourhood function.

At the time of WT's abduction if you googled Benaroon Drive address the surname of fgm showed on a certain website.it was then very easy to locate both FF surnames and their address in Sydney.

Someone knew their plans to visit and that info more likely innocently released by fgm at time of either initial contact with BS or when he attended on 9 Sept.

It is highly possible fgm had also told others of ff family upcoming visit.

Given visit was intended for Friday the abduction was always planned for friday. I believe that ff were watched in Sydney by whoever is responsible.

The trip to Kendall provided perfect opportunity away from prospective visual capture on cctv and public witness. More eyes and ears in Sydney.

The unplanned arrival into Kendall on Thursday unfortunately provided more opportunity for those involved to perfect their plan.

I have read somewhere that way prior to the abduction there were plans for ff to move overseas and bio fm had been involved in court process to fight the childrens removal from Australia. Cant recall where I read this but there are a couple of fb messages on bio fb wayback that also give the impression.

I in no way indicate FF FGM or Bio family of involvement in abduction process.

 

[Karinna]

Regardless of how some may feel, there is a little girl who deserves great protection, too. Who deserves a life where she can try to adjust from this terrible thing that has happened, in the love and security of her family and environment.

The spotlight has not been put on the foster parents because they have been independently cleared by the police, their movements will have been checked and verified, relevant CCTV and witnesses will have been checked and reviewed, mobile pings and usage will have been looked at, and they will not be subject in the media to the horrible musings about them that is found on some SM sites.

I believe that if William's sister was not in the picture as a foster child, all of the parents names would have been revealed .. as has been done when a foster child has gone missing and no other foster children are present in the household.

The bottom line is ... William's sister is also very important, as is her safety and privacy.

Nobody knows for fact if WT's sister is still in their care at this point in time, so i am not going to speculate about that.
Regardless of that the FF were cleared by the investigation as were the BP's. If that ever changes during the ongoing investigation, time will tell.
All IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

This article states WT was known by his foster family name so I take it the same goes for his female sibling L.

Did the foster family have their telephone listed openly in telephone directory therefore their address would be known? Which surname was applied to WT and LT? fm or ff surname?

Foster family and children were in Kendall Christmas 2013 and attended neighbourhood function.

At the time of WT's abduction if you googled Benaroon Drive address the surname of fgm showed on a certain website.it was then very easy to locate both FF surnames and their address in Sydney.

Someone knew their plans to visit and that info more likely innocently released by fgm at time of either initial contact with BS or when he attended on 9 Sept.

It is highly possible fgm had also told others of ff family upcoming visit.

Given visit was intended for Friday the abduction was always planned for friday. I believe that ff were watched in Sydney by whoever is responsible.

The trip to Kendall provided perfect opportunity away from prospective visual capture on cctv and public witness. More eyes and ears in Sydney.

The unplanned arrival into Kendall on Thursday unfortunately provided more opportunity for those involved to perfect their plan.

I have read somewhere that way prior to the abduction there were plans for ff to move overseas and bio fm had been involved in court process to fight the childrens removal from Australia. Cant recall where I read this but there are a couple of fb messages on bio fb wayback that also give the impression.

I in no way indicate FF FGM or Bio family of involvement in abduction process.

The problem with this is that everyone 'in the know' seems to believe that this was an opportunistic crime. And they have far more knowledge about this case than we have, or will ever likely have.

Apologies for all of the linked references, just trying to build a picture of the thoughts of people who know more than us .....

Ms Johnston said she hoped the third anniversary might act as a turning point in public attitude, a seed of change for a society where our kids were paying the price for slipping standards.
“We are building a culture where children are sexualised and we expect that it won’t impact them or the offenders who prey on them.
Category: | Herald Sun
September 16, 2017

Forensic criminologist Claire Ferguson said it was very rare for a child below school age to be taken, especially a boy.
She believes there was no plan and William was just snatched
William Tyrrell disappearance haunts Kendall two years after 'opportunistic' kidnapping
8 September 2016

Sarah Yule ...NSW police force’s senior forensic psychologist ... helping in the year-long search for missing boy William Tyrrell has revealed details of his suspected kidnapper and what she says was likely an opportunistic crime.
William Tyrrell: suspected kidnapper was 'visiting, residing or working locally'
Sep 12, 2015

Investigators have cleared all family members of responsibility, leading police to believe William was snatched by an opportunistic stranger.
We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph
April 17, 2015

Detective Inspector Gary Jubelin .... “I would have to say it’s opportunistic and it was a very narrow window of opportunity. We’re only talking about a minute or two when William was not supervised ... Someone has come across William and seen an opportunity and seized on the opportunity.”
‘If you’re in there, you’d better come forward’
Feb 19, 2015

 

[SouthAussie]

Nobody knows for fact if WT's sister is still in their care at this point in time, so i am not going to speculate about that.
Regardless of that the FF were cleared by the investigation as were the BP's. If that ever changes during the ongoing investigation, time will tell.
All IMO

Well, actually, people do know ... but I cannot provide a link to that, so you can take that as you will.

I don't think you will find too many disputers of that on this thread, or anywhere else.

imo

 

[Karinna]

Well, actually, people do know ... but I cannot provide a link to that, so you can take that as you will.

I don't think you will find too many disputers of that on this thread, or anywhere else.

imo

Then its not a fact, if it can't be linked to.

 

[SouthAussie]

Then its not a fact, if it can't be linked to.

Yeah, okay.

 

[Wexford]

BBM, Why would they have to have visitation at a public shopping centre? That sounds a bit bizarre IMO.
Don't the FACS have anywhere else parents can visit their child at their facility? Like a family room or something?

It's pretty common here for supervised visits to be in a public place. A shopping centre, a local park or play centre. One hour sounds to me like a supervised visit so a shopping centre is probably not a bad place depending on where you live. In Ryde I would say it is one of the better options.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I believe that if William's sister was not in the picture as a foster child, all of the parents names would have been revealed .. as has been done when a foster child has gone missing and no other foster children are present in the household.

Will the sister one day (maybe around 30 years old) have a great sense of guilt because her brother could not be searched for with all available means because she had to be protected as a foster child?

 

[they'll get you]

Will the sister one day (maybe around 30 years old) have a great sense of guilt because her brother could not be searched for with all available means because she had to be protected as a foster child?

IMO no matter how good the support is, I believe she will have a complex trauma disorder over the loss of William. Her guilt will grow with age and possibly she might consider suing because of the missed opportunities of finding William.

 

[SouthAussie]

Will the sister one day (maybe around 30 years old) have a great sense of guilt because her brother could not be searched for with all available means because she had to be protected as a foster child?

I feel badly for the sister. I think there is a good chance she will have survivor's guilt, no matter the situation. I trust that the foster parents are addressing any concerns in that area in a professional manner, and will continue to do so.

The FACS laws are certainly not their fault or her fault. That is the law, and how it is. And it is apparently defended by FACS, no matter what. Perhaps for good reason. One would think that those laws have eventuated because of bad things that have happened in the past.

Would any of us like something bad to happen to her? I think not.

The little girl has been through so much already, in her very early years ... and now this. I hope it makes her stronger and more empathetic to others in the long run. That she can have a happy and successful life.

 

[SouthAussie]

However, I am glad that people are starting to consider the safety and ongoing welfare of others in this matter. Sometimes I feel that they have been somewhat overlooked due to the crisis with William. And all of the children seem very important to me ..... William and all of his siblings.

 

[sleepinoz]

Will the sister one day (maybe around 30 years old) have a great sense of guilt because her brother could not be searched for with all available means because she had to be protected as a foster child?

I have to ask - what available means weren't used?

 

[deugirtni]

I have to ask - what available means weren't used?

Sorry to pipe in, but just adding my thoughts to this question asked, and hoping the original poster will also reply.

The available means that comes in every other missing child case, such as would automatically come with the publishing of names and photographs (of both the child and parents). In my view, there is *potentially* a whole whack of unmade calls in this case, which may have been present in other similar cases - people who knew them by their name, people who knew them by their appearance - potential witnesses to anything to all - witnesses to something, witnesses to nothing, just tips and clues, all to be interwoven together to make a big picture..

People who may have seen something, like say someone who saw the entire family of 4 sitting in the McDonald's restaurant on the way, or saw something other than that, etc., or people who saw the FD while in town at a certain time, or purchases made in Sydney, or whatever other tips and clues are a normal part of a missing person investigation. Even such things as identification of a vehicle, someone could have seen another vehicle which seemed to be following the family's vehicle, or people lurking about, but they have no idea that what they saw is even related to this case.

Not every clue has to be seen in a negative light for the FF - clues work both ways. People at the daycare from which the children were taken out early that day... who knew they were going - anyone? Who would know, if nobody even knows who the real caretakers of the missing boy were/are? There is nothing in the news to link the people known in their hometown of Sydney, with the terrible missing toddler tragedy in a tiny town 4 hours away. If the names of the FF had been published from the start, as they should have been, which also would have allowed for the foster children's names and their bio parents to be held in confidence as per FACS stipulations, who knows what information may have come to light that MAY have furthered the investigation in some way? The tiniest tip can start a chain reaction. We and they will never know. If 5 people called and said, yes, I knew they were heading there on the Friday, or 5 people called and said yes, I knew that Mrs.X's family was coming to visit on the Friday... then that in itself would give police a different tip, in that some people did in fact know the family were traveling there at a certain time. The possibilities are endless, and all of those potential possibilities are silenced due to the protection of the FP's names and faces. Instead we know all the grimey details about the bio parents, the ones whose names should have been private - not to mention photos and of the other siblings still in the care of the bios, etc. Everything is just backwards. imo.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Sorry to pipe in, but just adding my thoughts to this question asked, and hoping the original poster will also reply.

The available means that comes in every other missing child case, such as would automatically come with the publishing of names and photographs (of both the child and parents). In my view, there is *potentially* a whole whack of unmade calls in this case, which may have been present in other similar cases - people who knew them by their name, people who knew them by their appearance - potential witnesses to anything to all - witnesses to something, witnesses to nothing, just tips and clues, all to be interwoven together to make a big picture..

People who may have seen something, like say someone who saw the entire family of 4 sitting in the McDonald's restaurant on the way, or saw something other than that, etc., or people who saw the FD while in town at a certain time, or purchases made in Sydney, or whatever other tips and clues are a normal part of a missing person investigation. Even such things as identification of a vehicle, someone could have seen another vehicle which seemed to be following the family's vehicle, or people lurking about, but they have no idea that what they saw is even related to this case.

Not every clue has to be seen in a negative light for the FF - clues work both ways. People at the daycare from which the children were taken out early that day... who knew they were going - anyone? Who would know, if nobody even knows who the real caretakers of the missing boy were/are? There is nothing in the news to link the people known in their hometown of Sydney, with the terrible missing toddler tragedy in a tiny town 4 hours away. If the names of the FF had been published from the start, as they should have been, which also would have allowed for the foster children's names and their bio parents to be held in confidence as per FACS stipulations, who knows what information may have come to light that MAY have furthered the investigation in some way? The tiniest tip can start a chain reaction. We and they will never know. If 5 people called and said, yes, I knew they were heading there on the Friday, or 5 people called and said yes, I knew that Mrs.X's family was coming to visit on the Friday... then that in itself would give police a different tip, in that some people did in fact know the family were traveling there at a certain time. The possibilities are endless, and all of those potential possibilities are silenced due to the protection of the FP's names and faces. Instead we know all the grimey details about the bio parents, the ones whose names should have been private - not to mention photos and of the other siblings still in the care of the bios, etc. Everything is just backwards. imo.

I couldn't have said it better than you - thank you!

 

[sleepinoz]

Sorry to pipe in, but just adding my thoughts to this question asked, and hoping the original poster will also reply.

The available means that comes in every other missing child case, such as would automatically come with the publishing of names and photographs (of both the child and parents). In my view, there is *potentially* a whole whack of unmade calls in this case, which may have been present in other similar cases - people who knew them by their name, people who knew them by their appearance - potential witnesses to anything to all - witnesses to something, witnesses to nothing, just tips and clues, all to be interwoven together to make a big picture..

People who may have seen something, like say someone who saw the entire family of 4 sitting in the McDonald's restaurant on the way, or saw something other than that, etc., or people who saw the FD while in town at a certain time, or purchases made in Sydney, or whatever other tips and clues are a normal part of a missing person investigation. Even such things as identification of a vehicle, someone could have seen another vehicle which seemed to be following the family's vehicle, or people lurking about, but they have no idea that what they saw is even related to this case.

Not every clue has to be seen in a negative light for the FF - clues work both ways. People at the daycare from which the children were taken out early that day... who knew they were going - anyone? Who would know, if nobody even knows who the real caretakers of the missing boy were/are? There is nothing in the news to link the people known in their hometown of Sydney, with the terrible missing toddler tragedy in a tiny town 4 hours away. If the names of the FF had been published from the start, as they should have been, which also would have allowed for the foster children's names and their bio parents to be held in confidence as per FACS stipulations, who knows what information may have come to light that MAY have furthered the investigation in some way? The tiniest tip can start a chain reaction. We and they will never know. If 5 people called and said, yes, I knew they were heading there on the Friday, or 5 people called and said yes, I knew that Mrs.X's family was coming to visit on the Friday... then that in itself would give police a different tip, in that some people did in fact know the family were traveling there at a certain time. The possibilities are endless, and all of those potential possibilities are silenced due to the protection of the FP's names and faces. Instead we know all the grimey details about the bio parents, the ones whose names should have been private - not to mention photos and of the other siblings still in the care of the bios, etc. Everything is just backwards. imo.

Thank you for your response, however.

Every single case there are a whole whack of nuisance calls IMO.

There were photo's released of William, I'm sure that McDonalds CCTV was checked and verified.

I don't think they were taken 'early' from daycare they were picked up and left for Kendall early.

P: And it was a surprise visit to Nanna’s?
M: Yeah we’d actually planned to go on the Friday, but we ended up the Thursday, leaving earlier, and it was a surprise for Mum and it was a surprise for the kids to go before, because they love going to Nanna’s, yeah it was a complete surprise.
P: So the kids had no idea either?
M: None, none, they were over the moon, we told them in the car once we picked them up.
IN THEIR WORDS: William Tyrrell's parents talk of the day their boy went missing and the 'living nightmare' they endure

Considering FF posted many many posts about William missing prior to closing his FB, most that knew them knew, and I'm sure the Police have questioned friends and family.

The grimey details (as you say) about the Bio's didn't come about from not using resources, this came about because their identity supression was lifted by the court. Huge success hey?

My question was, however, about resources. What resources weren't used?