Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[SouthAussie]

Really ?

Then he evaporated! IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

Most court hearings, other than the actual trial itself are big no-moments. The allegations are usually only raised at bail applications, the trial and specific applications. Most other hearings are generally administrative, to confirm disclosure has been given etc. sometimes friends ask to come and watch a trial. I tell them they would be bored.

Listing a matter for trial is not complicated and doesn’t need a QC to attend for that. The instructing solicitor can do it.

Yes, we've learned over time that the most interesting court parts are the committal hearing - where evidence may be divulged - and the trial.

 

[Warshawski]

But the sniffer dogs should of been able to detect his scent in the air and can decipher scents.
His scent certainly should of been detected all around that yard where he had been playing and on the patios and inside the house where he had been overnight and in the morning. IMO.

I believe the scent was picked up inside FG property - but not outside the property.

 

[Warshawski]

No, I don't believe she expanded on that any further ... it has been puzzling me as well. How did she arrive at her personal conclusion?


The inquest has heard William Tyrrell vanished between 10am and 10.30am on the morning, although senior investigating detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft said she “personally” put it closer to 10.05am.
Details of ‘deeply troubling’ police grilling of Tyrrell person of interest

Is it permissible for a member of the Police /investigating team to just say 'my personal opinion is ' or do they need to provide some facts or evidence to back up their comments ?
Or perhaps they don't have to publically divulge everything at an inquest but the 'documented evidence of their comments' is already tabled. ??

 

[Karinna]

Really ?

Then he evaporated! IMO

I don't think a missing little boy is any joking matter but from the link i posted up earlier.
(quote)
Obviously the air is full of a vast variety of different odours, many of which will be powerfully clear to the dog. Fortunately they are able to distinguish between different odours, even if one smell overpowers another, and trace a specific scent to its source.
Detection Dogs – The Forensics Library

 

[SouthAussie]

Is it permissible for a member of the Police /investigating team to just say 'my personal opinion is ' or do they need to provide some facts or evidence to back up their comments ?
Or perhaps they don't have to publically divulge everything at an inquest but the 'documented evidence of their comments' is already tabled. ??

I think that an inquest is an information gathering exercise, and not run like a trial where proof is required.

Could be why Laura Beacroft said that it was her personal opinion.

The Coroner has the police brief, and can come to her own conclusions - based on what is contained in the brief and the info she gathers at the inquest. Perhaps also considering conversations she has had and site visits she has done with Jubes in the past.

Who knows if anyone even asked Laura Beacroft why she formed that opinion. We haven't heard anything about that.

 

[Karinna]

I believe the scent was picked up inside FG property - but not outside the property.

No idea depending on which MSM source you are reading?

 

[stormbird]

No, I don't believe she expanded on that any further ... it has been puzzling me as well. How did she arrive at her personal conclusion?

The inquest has heard William Tyrrell vanished between 10am and 10.30am on the morning, although senior investigating detective Sergeant Laura Beacroft said she “personally” put it closer to 10.05am.
Details of ‘deeply troubling’ police grilling of Tyrrell person of interest

Is it unusual for a detective to present her own personal conclusion? I'm sceptical about the reporting of it, and would like to know what Mr Craddock asked and what else was said in answer.

But thank you for replying, @SouthAussie. What led you to the belief that Det Sgt Beacroft didn't expand on her reasons?

 

[SouthAussie]

Is it unusual for a detective to present her own personal conclusion? I'm sceptical about the reporting of it, and would like to know what Mr Craddock asked and what else was said in answer.

But thank you for replying, @SouthAussie. What led you to the belief that Det Sgt Beacroft didn't expand on her reasons?

I just haven't read (or heard) that she expanded on her personal opinion - gave reasons for it. I also haven't read (or heard) that she was even asked to do so.

 

[purpleandgreen]

I don't think a missing little boy is any joking matter but from the link i posted up earlier.
(quote)
Obviously the air is full of a vast variety of different odours, many of which will be powerfully clear to the dog. Fortunately they are able to distinguish between different odours, even if one smell overpowers another, and trace a specific scent to its source.
Detection Dogs – The Forensics Library

I don’t think W thought it was any joking matter at all. Past posts attest to that. IMO.

 

[purpleandgreen]

No idea depending on which MSM source you are reading?

I think most of them agreed withW’s post. IMO

 

[Blues Clues]

"At 48 Benaroon Drive, police sniffer dogs picked up William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the property.

The day William Tyrrell vanished


"Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard."


William Tyrrell: The boy no-one can find

 

[Warshawski]

Heather Savage's statement was mentioned in one of Lia's podcasts. The link can be found back in the threads. The statement hasn't been released by the Coroner, as far as I have seen anywhere.


With regard to the FF, I believe a recorded question and answer walkthrough (as he did) and informal statements are considered legal statements.

"A Police interview is a broad term used for whenever the Police question you about a crime.
Sometimes this is informally - they may just ask questions and write the answers in a notebook, which they then may ask you to sign."
"Regardless of how the interview takes place, the purpose of Police interviews is to gather evidence about the case that can then be used to prosecute those involved in the crime."
"You do not have to be recorded saying anything."
Police interviews - Legal Aid NSW

Giving a statement to the police
A statement is a written or in certain circumstances a video-recorded account of what happened and may be used as evidence in court.
Giving a statement to the police | nidirect

Thorough as always SA

As I recall (male) FF did the police walk around Q&A, and surely collectively as a F family all members were interviewed ?
FG was suss of neighbour who we presume (imo) is the one who left quite quickly - however our presumption may be incorrect . Maybe she meant another ?

I can do nothing but pray; for William, for guidance of the investigating team & clarity for the Coroner. I do 100% believe that Good does triumphs over Evil - often just when it's least expected.

 

[Warshawski]

Please know that my comments were not in any way intended to make light of this appalling situation. A little boy gone missing is no laughing matter & I crave answers. My heart breaks in respect of all his nearest & dearest..

However, I'm a believer in the power of laughter - it's been a helpful medicine in some dark hours. Fuels the soul to continue on, ime

 

[SouthAussie]

Please know that my comments were not in any way intended to make light of this appalling situation. A little boy gone missing is no laughing matter & I crave answers. My heart breaks in respect of all his nearest & dearest..

However, I'm a believer in the power of laughter - it's been a helpful medicine in some dark hours. Fuels the soul to continue on, ime

I know, Warsh. If we can't have a smile and a chuckle here and there we would all go crazy with the frustration and sadness of this case. It sure is a heartbreaker.

 

[stormbird]

Re police dogs: the Where's William Tyrrell? podcast (episode 3: "One Last Roar", 08 July 2019) has an actor reading from a police statement by the senior constable who searched Benaroon Drive on 12 Sep 2014 with Police Dog (PD) Gov. It only talks about searching the neighbourhood, not the No.48 house and yard, so presumably this is only part of the statement? Transcribed by me:

"Upon my arrival, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible. This is due to the amount of time that had passed between William Tyrrell going missing and the time it took for me to travel to Kendall. During my assessment of the area I was told William Tyrrell was last seen at the rear of the house. The house is the last cul-de-sac, which is bound by thick bushland. It sits on the top of a hill. The easiest line of travel for a person leaving the house was downhill in an easterly direction. I decided it would be most effective for me to begin a search of all the yards heading downhill, away from the house. This was also the direction of travel to the Kendall township, which I believed to be the most likely place a child would walk. I started searching all the rear yards heading in a westerly direction down Benaroon Drive. I was followed by two general duties police and several members of the public, who started a line search approximately 20 metres behind me. PD Gov and I checked in the sheds, play equipment, garden, or any other area a child might hide in. The police behind me spoke to any residents they could find, and checked any houses that were unlocked. They also double-checked the areas PD Gov and I had searched. When we got to the last house on the northern side of Benaroon Drive we crossed to the southern side and began to search in the same way back up the hill towards the end of the cul-de-sac. At no time had I located a scent or a starting point for a search or track. No items of clothing or property relating to William Tyrrell were located during this search."

This link goes to the acast version, where the relevant bit started at 42:54. (On apple podcast it started at 43:25.)

 

[SouthAussie]

Re police dogs: the Where's William Tyrrell? podcast (episode 3: "One Last Roar", 08 July 2019) has an actor reading from a police statement by the senior constable who searched Benaroon Drive on 12 Sep 2014 with Police Dog (PD) Gov. It only talks about searching the neighbourhood, not the No.48 house and yard, so presumably this is only part of the statement? Transcribed by me:

"Upon my arrival, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible. This is due to the amount of time that had passed between William Tyrrell going missing and the time it took for me to travel to Kendall. During my assessment of the area I was told William Tyrrell was last seen at the rear of the house. The house is the last cul-de-sac, which is bound by thick bushland. It sits on the top of a hill. The easiest line of travel for a person leaving the house was downhill in an easterly direction. I decided it would be most effective for me to begin a search of all the yards heading downhill, away from the house. This was also the direction of travel to the Kendall township, which I believed to be the most likely place a child would walk. I started searching all the rear yards heading in a westerly direction down Benaroon Drive. I was followed by two general duties police and several members of the public, who started a line search approximately 20 metres behind me. PD Gov and I checked in the sheds, play equipment, garden, or any other area a child might hide in. The police behind me spoke to any residents they could find, and checked any houses that were unlocked. They also double-checked the areas PD Gov and I had searched. When we got to the last house on the northern side of Benaroon Drive we crossed to the southern side and began to search in the same way back up the hill towards the end of the cul-de-sac. At no time had I located a scent or a starting point for a search or track. No items of clothing or property relating to William Tyrrell were located during this search."

This link goes to the acast version, where the relevant bit started at 42:54. (On apple podcast it started at 43:25.)

I think that it is probable that with William and his sister running around the outside of the house that morning, and riding bikes in the driveway, a starting point would have been near impossible to find.

In the driveway, they would have been near the roadside at times. In the garden they may also have been near the roadside at times.

And the abductor could have walked into the garden further, anyway. Before he/she picked William up and took him.

That last roar is what gets me. Was William roaring at someone? And, if so, how far away from the house could that someone have been?

 

[Warshawski]

"At 48 Benaroon Drive, police sniffer dogs picked up William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the property.

The day William Tyrrell vanished


"Police dogs were brought in and they managed to find William's scent, but only within the boundaries of the backyard."
William Tyrrell: The boy no-one can find

Thanks for the links Blues Clues . So hope for a turn around soon.

 

[Warshawski]

Re police dogs: the Where's William Tyrrell? podcast (episode 3: "One Last Roar", 08 July 2019) has an actor reading from a police statement by the senior constable who searched Benaroon Drive on 12 Sep 2014 with Police Dog (PD) Gov. It only talks about searching the neighbourhood, not the No.48 house and yard, so presumably this is only part of the statement? Transcribed by me:

"Upon my arrival, I assessed the area and found that tracking was impossible. This is due to the amount of time that had passed between William Tyrrell going missing and the time it took for me to travel to Kendall. During my assessment of the area I was told William Tyrrell was last seen at the rear of the house. The house is the last cul-de-sac, which is bound by thick bushland. It sits on the top of a hill. The easiest line of travel for a person leaving the house was downhill in an easterly direction. I decided it would be most effective for me to begin a search of all the yards heading downhill, away from the house. This was also the direction of travel to the Kendall township, which I believed to be the most likely place a child would walk. I started searching all the rear yards heading in a westerly direction down Benaroon Drive. I was followed by two general duties police and several members of the public, who started a line search approximately 20 metres behind me. PD Gov and I checked in the sheds, play equipment, garden, or any other area a child might hide in. The police behind me spoke to any residents they could find, and checked any houses that were unlocked. They also double-checked the areas PD Gov and I had searched. When we got to the last house on the northern side of Benaroon Drive we crossed to the southern side and began to search in the same way back up the hill towards the end of the cul-de-sac. At no time had I located a scent or a starting point for a search or track. No items of clothing or property relating to William Tyrrell were located during this search."

This link goes to the acast version, where the relevant bit started at 42:54. (On apple podcast it started at 43:25.)

Bolded by me is the bit I've always been interested in

It's my belief that early on the thought was that 'this is a little boy who's wandered off' so they headed off in the direction of the driveway & surrounding neighbour's.

I wonder when the scent detection exercises were conducted elsewhere? Over the hill & far away ?!

 

[Warshawski]

I think that it is probable that with William and his sister running around the outside of the house that morning, and riding bikes in the driveway, a starting point would have been near impossible to find.

In the driveway, they would have been near the roadside at times. In the garden they may also have been near the roadside at times.

And the abductor could have walked into the garden further, anyway. Before he/she picked William up and took him.

That last roar is what gets me. Was William roaring at someone? And, if so, how far away from the house could that someone have been?

Yep agreed SA, especially with a mindset that 'a 3 yr old has gone a wandering' (imo)

IMO it's a very sad fact that we now live in such a decayed & depraved society that we must now think the Very Worst in every situation.
Sadly however I think it was blissful ignorance of that fact that's led to this point in regards to William.
(I'm not laying any personal blame. This was a country town; I grew up in the country; everyone is trusting & helpful of each other. UNTIL the no good f%%#er stands out - & watch the turn around! But that won't change the belief in the next person or situation, often again to their detriment)

That last roar has always got to me too. I want to know exactly where he was then (I also want to know where his sister was as mixed reports re toilet, playing etc).
IMO - William was at rear of house, which I believe borders bush land? (Please tell me if I'm wrong )

How easy would it be for a silencing hand over mouth ( maybe cloroform ) to run into bush & where from there whilst all the frantic street searching was going on ?

That's why the reported crazy driving car with Spideman child pricked my attention. It fit with my crazy mind scenario. ..
Through the bush & what's waiting ? Who's waiting ?
And off we go !

All these years later I don't know - but at that point my gut told me William was taken by some screwed up but well intentioned person . I so hope he is ok & that the truth will prevail.