Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #47

[Wexford]

Anyone able to find anything about Paul Savage's movements at night?

I think it was him who spoke about the loner neighbour who moved away saying that the neighbour kept odd hours (though I can't now find The Australian article that spoke of that). Maybe Paul Savage is a known wanderer at night? Or maybe was seen outside at 10:10pm on 12/9/14 by the police who were still at the scene?

I have a feeling that Jubes recorded calls were made at significant times on Fridays. Perhaps for psychological reasons.

10.10 on a Friday evening could be when he got home from the club?
I can't access the article. Does it say who rang whom?

 

[SouthAussie]

10.10 on a Friday evening could be when he got home from the club?
I can't access the article. Does it say who rang whom?

No, it doesn't.

It says the Friday 10:35am 3rd November 2017 one was 'allegedly recorded in Parramatta'.
And the Friday 10:10pm 28th December 2018 recording was 'allegedly made in the town of Kendall'.

It does say that the recordings were of conversations Jubes had with an elderly neighbour who lives in the street where William disappeared. And that the neighbour is legally represented at the inquest.

 

[SouthAussie]

Police prosecutor Peter Bakalidis said cross-examination of the witnesses was a factor in the length of the hearing.
https://7news.com.au/news/crime/eight-witnesses-in-nsw-jubelin-case-c-469354

It sounds as if they are expecting Margaret Cuneen to give the prosecution witnesses a grilling.

She once said .....

The reason that corruption commissions want to publicly name people before anything has been proven is because they’re on shaky ground. After all, if they had strong enough evidence, they’d refer it straight to the DPP.
From Crown Prosecutor to Defence Barrister: An Interview With Margaret Cunneen SC - Sydney Criminal Lawyers From Crown Prosecutor to Defence Barrister: An Interview With Margaret Cunneen SC

 

[Wexford]

No, it doesn't.

It says the Friday 10:35am 3rd November 2017 one was 'allegedly recorded in Parramatta'.
And the Friday 10:10pm 28th December 2018 recording was 'allegedly made in the town of Kendall'.

It does say that the recordings were of conversations Jubes had with an elderly neighbour who lives in the street where William disappeared. And that the neighbour is legally represented at the inquest.

I assume that means GJ was in Parramatta recording and it was a phone call to PS (or from) who was at Kendall. Not that they were both in Parramatta??

 

[Georgy]

Gotta luv ol' Col. IMO he caused more problems for BS

How so?
Because he publicly defended him?
The old damned if you do and damned if you dont

 

[SouthAussie]

I assume that means GJ was in Parramatta recording and it was a phone call to PS (or from) who was at Kendall. Not that they were both in Parramatta??

I get the impression that Jubes was recording from Parramatta, and Jubes was recording from Kendall.

Other articles say the recordings were made on his mobile phone. So, can you record someone while you are on a mobile call - particularly in the Kendall presumably non-office environment? Or do you have to record on your mobile phone while in a face to face convo?

I don't think I can record a convo on my mobile at the same time as speaking on it.

In Parramatta Jubes could have been on loudspeaker on a fixed phone and recorded that. Or he could have been face to face.
In Kendall he could have been face to face recording imo.


..... Gary Jubelin who is accused of using a mobile phone to record someone without a warrant.
Top NSW detective Gary Jubelin charged

 

[Georgy]

Ol’ Col the-knock-about-gun-barrel-kinda-guy story teller was a constant source of entertainment.

My bucket list is to have a yarn with Ol’ Col and Russell Coight about Marg’s encounter with psychics.

View attachment 205889

Maybe get in touch with the journo that wrote the article and see if they can actually quote Cols words..

 

[Karinna]

I get the impression that Jubes was recording from Parramatta, and Jubes was recording from Kendall.

Other articles say the recordings were made on his mobile phone. So, can you record someone while you are on a mobile call - particularly in the Kendall presumably non-office environment? Or do you have to record on your mobile phone while in a face to face convo?

I don't think I can record a convo on my mobile at the same time as speaking on it.

In Parramatta Jubes could have been on loudspeaker on a fixed phone and recorded that. Or he could have been face to face.
In Kendall he could have been face to face recording imo.


..... Gary Jubelin who is accused of using a mobile phone to record someone without a warrant.
Top NSW detective Gary Jubelin charged

The Law in NSW: Recording Conversations
Surveillance warrants
Police can apply for a surveillance warrant in order to lawfully record a person.

To apply for a warrant, a police officer has to have reasonable grounds to suspect that someone is about to commit an offence, or that an offence has been committed, or that an offence is likely to be committed.

There also has to be an investigation into the alleged offence, or be likely that an investigation will arise, and the police officer has to show that surveillance will be necessary in that investigation.

Whether or not a warrant will be granted depends on the judge or magistrate’s discretion.

Some of the factors which will be considered include the nature and severity of the alleged offence, the likely intrusion on the privacy of the person or persons being recorded, and whether there are alternative ways of obtaining the evidence that is needed.

They will also consider what value the evidence which is likely to be obtained will have to the case as a whole.
Once a surveillance warrant is granted, it will give very specific guidelines as to the type of device which is approved, and how it can be used.

If police breach those guidelines, any evidence obtained may be inadmissible in court.

The warrant will state rules like where the surveillance device is authorised to be used, by who, and for how long.

If you suspect that your conversations are being recorded or if you have recorded someone else’s conversation and aren’t sure whether or not you can use it in court, speak to an experienced criminal lawyer as soon as possible or refer the matter to police.

 

[Loxoli]

The Law in NSW: Recording Conversations
Surveillance warrants
Police can apply for a surveillance warrant in order to lawfully record a person.

To apply for a warrant, a police officer has to have reasonable grounds to suspect that someone is about to commit an offence, or that an offence has been committed, or that an offence is likely to be committed.

There also has to be an investigation into the alleged offence, or be likely that an investigation will arise, and the police officer has to show that surveillance will be necessary in that investigation.

Whether or not a warrant will be granted depends on the judge or magistrate’s discretion.

Some of the factors which will be considered include the nature and severity of the alleged offence, the likely intrusion on the privacy of the person or persons being recorded, and whether there are alternative ways of obtaining the evidence that is needed.

They will also consider what value the evidence which is likely to be obtained will have to the case as a whole.
Once a surveillance warrant is granted, it will give very specific guidelines as to the type of device which is approved, and how it can be used.

If police breach those guidelines, any evidence obtained may be inadmissible in court.

The warrant will state rules like where the surveillance device is authorised to be used, by who, and for how long.

If you suspect that your conversations are being recorded or if you have recorded someone else’s conversation and aren’t sure whether or not you can use it in court, speak to an experienced criminal lawyer as soon as possible or refer the matter to police.

I think the issue is that GJ didn’t obtain a warrant to begin with. Is that right?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

I think the issue is that GJ didn’t obtain a warrant to begin with. Is that right?

Very generally speaking, it’s is an offence to record someone without their permission. The only exceptions are if there is a warrant or under some exceptions listed in the Surveillance Devices Act. One of the exceptions in the Act is if there is an “operational need”, which Jubelin seems to be relying on.

 

[drsleuth]

From a July 30th DT article ... it seems that as well as former police deputy commissioner Nick Kaldis, also former detective Angelo Memmolo (former gangs squad and recipient of the Australian Police Medal in the 2017 Australia Day Honours) and current sex crimes squad detective Paul Jacob are visibly supporting Jubes - by attending court with him.

The article says the first call was recorded in Parramatta at 10:35am on Friday November 3 2017 - coincidentally ?? at around the time that William went missing, three years prior. And around the time that Heather supposedly left the house for bingo.

It also says that the last call was recorded in Kendall at 10:10pm on Friday December 28 2018 - I wonder if that time of 10:10pm also has some significance.

We’re for Sydney | Daily Telegraph

Good to see some former top cops supporting Gary

Btw Angelo Memmolo was OIC of the siege inquest too, he's been in homicide squad for along time ( I think he has now left the police force also ) He's a lovely guy. IMO

 

[SouthAussie]

I think the issue is that GJ didn’t obtain a warrant to begin with. Is that right?

Here are the exceptions - subsections 2,3 &4 - if you are interested in learning more about them, Loxoli.

SURVEILLANCE DEVICES ACT 2007 - SECT 7 Prohibition on installation, use and maintenance of listening devices

 

[SouthAussie]

Good to see some former top cops supporting Gary

Btw Angelo Memmolo was OIC of the siege inquest too, he's been in homicide squad for along time ( I think he has now left the police force also ) He's a lovely guy. IMO

I think Det Insp Paul Jacob also feels a lot of compassion for Jubes. Paul Jacob led the strike force investigating Caroline Byrne's death - and then cocky Gordon Wood sued (unsuccessfully) the state of NSW for malicious prosecution.

 

[Karinna]

Very generally speaking, it’s is an offence to record someone without their permission. The only exceptions are if there is a warrant or under some exceptions listed in the Surveillance Devices Act. One of the exceptions in the Act is if there is an “operational need”, which Jubelin seems to be relying on.

Thankyou for explaining the Surveillance Act further. So i guess what they will hopefully determine in court is if there was an "operational need" for Jubelin to do that?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

That’s what they have outwardly said, but no defence lawyer worth their salt would reveal their entire defence to the prosecution (and the public) until trial.

 

[k-mac]

I get the impression that Jubes was recording from Parramatta, and Jubes was recording from Kendall.

Other articles say the recordings were made on his mobile phone. So, can you record someone while you are on a mobile call - particularly in the Kendall presumably non-office environment? Or do you have to record on your mobile phone while in a face to face convo?

I don't think I can record a convo on my mobile at the same time as speaking on it.

In Parramatta Jubes could have been on loudspeaker on a fixed phone and recorded that. Or he could have been face to face.
In Kendall he could have been face to face recording imo.


..... Gary Jubelin who is accused of using a mobile phone to record someone without a warrant.
Top NSW detective Gary Jubelin charged

honesty the whole thing is a farce imo

if he pinched 2 bags of coke out of a drug raid.........okay dokey

put under oath every detective in Australia and ask the question have you illegally obtained information from a suspect?
(whether that info makes light of day....probably unlikely....not the point)

his integrity is intact in my book and I hate this is happening to him.

moo

edited to add...politically incorrect statement but I don't care!!!!

 

[Thebottomline]

honesty the whole thing is a farce imo

if he pinched 2 bags of coke out of a drug raid.........okay dokey

put under oath every detective in Australia and ask the question have you illegally obtained information from a suspect?
(whether that info makes light of day....probably unlikely....not the point)

his integrity is intact in my book and I hate this is happening to him.

moo

edited to add...politically incorrect statement but I don't care!!!!

I agree K-Mac

 

[SouthAussie]

honesty the whole thing is a farce imo

if he pinched 2 bags of coke out of a drug raid.........okay dokey

put under oath every detective in Australia and ask the question have you illegally obtained information from a suspect?
(whether that info makes light of day....probably unlikely....not the point)

his integrity is intact in my book and I hate this is happening to him.

moo

edited to add...politically incorrect statement but I don't care!!!!

One horrible repercussion of this farcical action is that whoever took William, and likely murdered him, is probably smirking from ear to ear.

William's abduction has ruined things for so many people. And the people who are feeling the punishment are not the perp!

 

[sleepinoz]

honesty the whole thing is a farce imo

if he pinched 2 bags of coke out of a drug raid.........okay dokey

put under oath every detective in Australia and ask the question have you illegally obtained information from a suspect?
(whether that info makes light of day....probably unlikely....not the point)

his integrity is intact in my book and I hate this is happening to him.

moo

edited to add...politically incorrect statement but I don't care!!!!

 

[Karinna]

That’s what they have outwardly said, but no defence lawyer worth their salt would reveal their entire defence to the prosecution (and the public) until trial.

Do the prosecution and the defence have to share discovery in these types of cases?