Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #48

[Cleaver Greene]

IMO the circumstances are of a serious nature, PS was losing his memory/mind.

I don’t think memory issues would meet this criteria. The court would need to be satisfied that the urgency prevented advising a person they were being recorded/obtaining a warrant. The sort of scenarios this would cover would be actual immediate urgency, like a person in their death throes. The question the court will ask is “did the officer have a reasonable opportunity to let the person know they were being recorded?”

 

[interested64]

Problematic to whom? Other police officers? Criminals? Defence attorneys? Yourself?

He certainly is appreciated by the victims, and had good success with politicians and in court.

As well, I found his manner with 'witnesses' very empathetic and patient - as evidenced in his walkthrough with Margaret Spedding.

Problematic to whom? Other police officers? Criminals? Defence attorneys? Yourself?

He certainly is appreciated by the victims, and had good success with politicians and in court.

As well, I found his manner with 'witnesses' very empathetic and patient - as evidenced in his walkthrough with Margaret Spedding.

so patient alright,hes a saint for that walkthrough

 

[peekinandy]

I don’t think memory issues would meet this criteria. The court would need to be satisfied that the urgency prevented advising a person they were being recorded/obtaining a warrant. The sort of scenarios this would cover would be actual immediate urgency, like a person in their death throes. The question the court will ask is “did the officer have a reasonable opportunity to let the person know they were being recorded?”

I don't think the police are under the pump to let them know they are being recorded - such as in the case of Paul Cowan, as long as they fit those criteria already mentioned - otherwise, they would have had to let Paul Cowan know?

In other words BBM above - doesn't really fit

 

[interested64]

IMO whoppty do that he recorded ps,anything to find this boy and any other child who has gone missing or murdered..if he gets jail im sure there would be outrage..like i said a few pages back,one man a few weeks back got 12mths home detention for molesting a child..i dont know about anyone else but im over the good guys getting and the crims getting off

 

[peekinandy]

IMO whoppty do that he recorded ps,anything to find this boy and any other child who has gone missing or murdered..if he gets jail im sure there would be outrage..like i said a few pages back,one man a few weeks back got 12mths home detention for molesting a child..i dont know about anyone else but im over the good guys getting **** and the crims getting off

I agree Interested - but to take the emotion out of it - everything still needs to be legal, and having said that - I can't wait to see Gary J win his case

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I don’t think memory issues would meet this criteria. The court would need to be satisfied that the urgency prevented advising a person they were being recorded/obtaining a warrant. The sort of scenarios this would cover would be actual immediate urgency, like a person in their death throes. The question the court will ask is “did the officer have a reasonable opportunity to let the person know they were being recorded?”

However, PS then would have said nothing (if he was warned) and perhaps would have played a bit senile, just in case. Meanwhile little W may have been still alive and possibly in a terrible situation. For a layman this is urgency enough.

 

[SouthAussie]

However, PS then would have said nothing (if he was warned) and perhaps would have played a bit senile, just in case. Meanwhile little W may have been still alive and possibly in a terrible situation. For a layman this is urgency enough.

Very good point, FG.

 

[mussopossum]

Unrelated to William but am sure most here had followed in the past.

Australian serial killer Ivan Milat dies in Long Bay prison, aged 74


Australian serial killer Ivan Milat dies in Long Bay prison, aged 74 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[SouthAussie]

Unrelated to William but am sure most here had followed in the past.

Australian serial killer Ivan Milat dies in Long Bay prison, aged 74


Australian serial killer Ivan Milat dies in Long Bay prison, aged 74 - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

... and he has taken his secrets to the grave with him. I believe that I heard recently that they suspect he may be guilty of up to 20 (?) other murders, besides the ones that he was convicted of.

 

[mussopossum]

IMO whoppty do that he recorded ps,anything to find this boy and any other child who has gone missing or murdered..if he gets jail im sure there would be outrage..like i said a few pages back,one man a few weeks back got 12mths home detention for molesting a child..i dont know about anyone else but im over the good guys getting **** and the crims getting off

I think many here would agree, however, the law is there to protect rule and convict when adhered to by LE.

Sometimes it is good sometimes it lets people walk for even some of the worst crimes, especially against children.

We never really know what they know and what is going on behind the scenes I guess.

But I do agree, sometimes the system sux.

 

[mussopossum]

South Aussie you would have followed this?

Gordon Wood and Caroline Byrne.

Do I remember correctly that there may have been something done incorrectly in that investigation and Wood was released from prison after being charged?

Been so long since read the book on this but cannot remember. I know something happened in this case? Was a key factor, he was charged then released.

A sad but very interesting story

 

[Wexford]

I wonder if Jubelin was at this point:???

The circumstances are so serious or of such urgency that use of a listening device is necessary and the circumstances make it impracticable to apply for a warrant;

My money on this one.

A child had been snatched. I think it doesn’t get any more urgent or serious. My money on this one too.

 

[mussopossum]

A child had been snatched. I think it doesn’t get any more urgent or serious. My money on this one too.

I cant see a senior detective that is high profile such as Jubelin taking such a risk knowing that it would be exposed at some point in the investigation.

Not without some serious knowledge that it could result in a break or more information or possibly an arrest or finding William.

He risk his career and pretty much lost it as well over this recording. To me that tells me whatever it was it was significant in finding William or who took him.

So I agree Wex.

 

[SouthAussie]

South Aussie you would have followed this?

Gordon Wood and Caroline Byrne.

Do I remember correctly that there may have been something done incorrectly in that investigation and Wood was released from prison after being charged?

Been so long since read the book on this but cannot remember. I know something happened in this case? Was a key factor, he was charged then released.

A sad but very interesting story

I only looked at Gordon Wood's trial due to something that happened during Simon Gittany's trial. But Wood's appeal was successful because the Supreme Court found that there was 'not enough evidence' for a jury to have found him guilty. They said that an expert witness' testimony was fundamentally flawed.

Nothing was really 'done wrong' imo. Even though Wood's lawyer claimed things were done wrong. Wood lost his lawsuit for malicious prosecution and wrongful imprisonment.

 

[JLZ]

I don’t think memory issues would meet this criteria. The court would need to be satisfied that the urgency prevented advising a person they were being recorded/obtaining a warrant. The sort of scenarios this would cover would be actual immediate urgency, like a person in their death throes. The question the court will ask is “did the officer have a reasonable opportunity to let the person know they were being recorded?”

Suppose the officer did let the person know they were being recorded and the person expressed non-consent. The person is on the phone and talking, any second he might say the vital thing. Clearly there isn't time to get a warrant, the failing memory gives additional urgency, the presumed crime is very serious and the criminal likely free and dangerous. Can the circumstances override refusal of consent to record?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

Suppose the officer did let the person know they were being recorded and the person expressed non-consent. The person is on the phone and talking, any second he might say the vital thing. Clearly there isn't time to get a warrant, the failing memory gives additional urgency, the presumed crime is very serious and the criminal likely free and dangerous. Can the circumstances override refusal of consent to record?

Police wouldn’t normally get a warrant to record a conversation. A warrant would be for ongoing recording, like installing a listening device in someone’s property. For a one off conversation police should just tell the person they are being recorded.

If a police officer didn’t tell someone they were being recorded because they knew that person wouldn’t consent, a court would definitely not admit the recording. The whole purpose of the legislation is so that people can choose whether or not they will permit a recording of an otherwise private conversation. A police officer admitting they knew the person wouldn’t consent would effectively be admitting they breached the law.

 

[JLZ]

Police wouldn’t normally get a warrant to record a conversation. A warrant would be for ongoing recording, like installing a listening device in someone’s property. For a one off conversation police should just tell the person they are being recorded.

If a police officer didn’t tell someone they were being recorded because they knew that person wouldn’t consent, a court would definitely not admit the recording. The whole purpose of the legislation is so that people can choose whether or not they will permit a recording of an otherwise private conversation. A police officer admitting they knew the person wouldn’t consent would effectively be admitting they breached the law.

You're saying that if the person refused to allow the recording and the officer recorded nonetheless, then that would be a criminal offence and none of the exemptions could apply?

 

[Cleaver Greene]

You're saying that if the person refused to allow the recording and the officer recorded nonetheless, then that would be a criminal offence and none of the exemptions could apply?

If one of the other exemptions applied, it could be admissible.

 

[SouthAussie]

It has been a while since I have looked at the online petition for Jubes. Happy to see that it is still being signed ... with more signatures added today, and people mentioning William - as well as Bowraville - in their comments.

The lady running the petition is good with her updates, too. Keeping it current.

 

[purpleandgreen]

It has been a while since I have looked at the online petition for Jubes. Happy to see that it is still being signed ... with more signatures added today, and people mentioning William - as well as Bowraville - in their comments.

The lady running the petition is good with her updates, too. Keeping it current.

That's good news, SA. Hopefully this time the good guys will win.