Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

[interested64]

Lia Harris
@LiaJHarris
·
Feb 7
Cunneen is asking Dukes about what happened to Jubelin’s lengthy statement he’d prepared for the Coroner. Dukes told the court he believe now lead detective David Laidlaw “adopted” that statement after Jubelin was removed from the cases

I hope all that GJ had to say to the coroner has been passed on and not been altered

 

[Warshawski]

Just to add to that has it been confirmed by grandma that when savage supposedly went over for a brief chat after everyone’s was on the alert William was missing that grandma told savage fm went inside to make a tea a and the lil one disappeared.. this recall from savage only came to light for the first time at the last inquest

I don’t know what’s been confirmed 74, but I do know there’s been any number of scenarios posed over the locations of FFC, FGM, children etc that morning..

I can only pray that the truth will soon prevail.

 

[Hilly]

Does anyone know what time FM took kids down to the footpath to see if FD might be coming home. I thought maybe around 10.00.

I was thinking FM may have made teas when she got back up to deck after seeing if FD was coming home.


I haven’t signed in for a long time I went to have a look at some old posts and there were post that I didn’t write under my name so weird. They were mixed in with posts I had written.
Has that happened to anyone else. I have contacted admin to let them know.

 

[SouthAussie]

Interesting, isn't it, how people (like all of us) can form a determination about who is guilty in William's abduction and who is not.

With regard to Savage, we question a very experienced police officer who has all the facts, we believe the stories of an old man, we provide unfounded excuses (dementia), we minimise relentless stalking, we overlook outbursts of anger, we re-jig privately muttered words .....

What I would like to know is what was the legal justification for the listening devices in Savage's house. I think having info like that would help us to more clearly see why Savage became a 'high priority' POI that warranted the personal attention of the lead detective overseeing the case. A detective who enlisted a psychologist to assist with a bluff involving a look-alike spiderman suit.

 

[Warshawski]

The tweets from Lia Harris state the recording devices were planted inside Mr Savage's home before Jubelin even met him …. and the tweets also say he was heard talking to himself then..... and seriously a lot of people talk to themselves … and it could just be about a random thought...at any random time.....

There were no dates or times given to these "phrases" of talking out loud to himself so how can anyone pin point them to any thing directly??? I think it could be a case of trying to make them "fit"....??? IMO

The court heard Savage was already the subject of listening devices placed in his home by investigators before Jubelin had even met him. Det Sgt Beacroft said the recordings showed “he would talk a lot to himself”.
1:16 PM · Feb 6, 2020 from Sydney, New South Wales·Twitter for iPhone

And lets not forget that Cunneen is building her defence for Jubelin....

I wonder how many houses they placed listening devices in ?

 

[Warshawski]

PS could well be talking about William, most think he is speaking of GJ and it's possible. When you add the next statement about going to property in Gordon, I have to say it's not about Jubelin.

I think this is one upset old man, ranting. ..ranting . ..he’s had it with all of them & the pressure he’s been under. ..and often, as I know, rants often don’t make sense !

 

[SLouTh]

I wonder how many houses they placed listening devices in ?

Agree …. we would love to know the answer to that question War..... Not sure we will ever find out the answer though....
I would also like to know how may undercover officers went in as well??? Out of interest and intrigue... "several" is most likely as close as we will ever get......

 

[JWSleuth]

Interesting, isn't it, how people (like all of us) can form a determination about who is guilty in William's abduction and who is not.

With regard to Savage, we question a very experienced police officer who has all the facts, we believe the stories of an old man, we provide unfounded excuses (dementia), we minimise relentless stalking, we overlook outbursts of anger, we re-jig privately muttered words .....

What I would like to know is what was the legal justification for the listening devices in Savage's house. I think having info like that would help us to more clearly see why Savage became a 'high priority' POI that warranted the personal attention of the lead detective overseeing the case. A detective who enlisted a psychologist to assist with a bluff involving a look-alike spiderman suit.

Love this SA!

I’ve been thinking about in the last few days and also just listened to a podcast about undercover detectives and old school detectives. (Andrew Rule) it got me thinking that although rules must be followed, I also want our top detectives to be able to do what they can and be trusted to do the need be without fear of reprisal.

I want offenders to both fear and respect them. There seems to be so much red tape (maybe for Good reasons) too the point that it’s impossible for our top cops to find the floor of society.

Hoping Jubes can prove his reasons and the inquest can get back on track.

edit: regardless of if PS is guilty of anything - he did throw some good reasons to look into him.

 

[SLouTh]

Then why no mention of HS whatsoever on helping with the search or being home when the neighbours knocked on the door.. in fact I can’t recall reading anything on her whereabouts other than she was going to bingo that morning.. where was heather no one knows

We don't have the "entire day's details' of anyone in the street that day ….

With regard to Heather searching … she was an elderly lady, with cancer, who was too unwell to go on her daily walk , so not likely searching...… and any other scenario would just be speculation....

 

[Warshawski]

Perhaps if he was knocked unconscious or already dead, but I don't see how a toddler could be silent and unnoticed?

Strong man with hand over mouth would be enough; perhaps some chloroform on a rag ..imo

 

[Warshawski]

Lia Harris
@LiaJHarris

Jubelin accuses him of lying. Savage responds “I don’t lie... I might make mistakes... but I don’t lie”

Once I thought I was Wrong, but turned out I was only mistaken

 

[Warshawski]

He certainly is a complex character. I find myself swinging back and forth between thinking he is cunning and devious to just plain addled.

interesting, confusing, complex for sure; also ageing & lonely etc. and I dare say once capable & intelligent.

I can understand the interest in PS but I think it’s been exhausted; time to focus elsewhere IMO

 

[JLZ]

Then why no mention of HS whatsoever on helping with the search or being home when the neighbours knocked on the door.. in fact I can’t recall reading anything on her whereabouts other than she was going to bingo that morning.. where was heather no one knows

HS wouldn't have been home when AMS came knocking, she was on her way to bingo (in Laurieton I think). She normally got back home early afternoon, perhaps 1:30 to 2 was mentioned, with no specific time for that day. PS and GN searched; I infer that HS remained home with GN's wife R. The hard-to-read map of who searched where lists H and R as being present when the Savage home was searched.

 

[Warshawski]

It was said that police were not certain of the actual words spoken by PS.. police deciphered those words from what they were able to make out on an apparently poor quality recording. We don't really know where GJ resided, do we? (I mean at whichever time PS was making these comments, which we also don't know.)

It's possible that GJ, in his conversations with PS, had conversed with him a little about his own life perhaps, to kind of get PS to loosen up and make him feel like it was a casual talk rather than an interrogation, and in so doing, may have mentioned the location where he lived, either then or at some point in his life? And it might not have been Gordon that Savage said. It could have been something else. If we knew the areas where GJ has lived, we may find that it's some area around Gordon (or perhaps something that sounds similar-ish). The public is only being given part of the info and meanwhile police are trying to make a case to justify their actions.

So much has been said about the poor quality / difficulty in hearing / deciphering the audio from the planted recordings, I’ve always thought it no wonder that Jubes went to recording their conversations & then transcribing .. just my own thoughts .

 

[Karinna]

interesting, confusing, complex for sure; also ageing & lonely etc. and I dare say once capable & intelligent.

I can understand the interest in PS but I think it’s been exhausted; time to focus elsewhere IMO

Agree, maybe we need the flogging a dead horse emoji,

 

[Warshawski]

PS was planned to go on a 4 hour drive to casino that very day.
but didn't.
so he is lucid enough to make plans to care for someone and drive long distances but not lucid enough to remember to call and tell his brother he isn't coming now??
and why wouldn't he go???his brother needed him.


old men with dementia are very very difficult and can be devious.
this man has a record of odd and unacceptable behaviours.
has little regard for authority, continuing to harass the postie with an avo in place a perfect example.

an ever changing revolving door of answers and reasoning clocking up to mental health issues.....isn't that convenient .......right about now.

#teamjubes.

moo

the difficulty for us (IMO) is that we only know what’s been made public ( this week was a learning curve for me) .

I’m sure the reason for not collecting his brother has been explained; perhaps he had a call that changed initial plans; who knows. ..

Dementia is a debilitating, destructive & terribly sad disease ( just had my darling Aunt finally pass).
There’s a big difference between memory loss & dementia. .. I’m so so scared - every time I can’t find my keys or remember what I went down the hall for, I get scared !


PS is 75 years of age! and as I’m much younger. IMO he doesn’t have dementia, he has Old, couple with the attitude that helped people of that age survive.

Just my opinion.

I wonder why Owen etc not getting the same dissecting ?

 

[Warshawski]

It would appear that he was liked enough to have been invited to the neighbour's Christmas party the previous Christmas. I also noticed that AMS did not knock on #35's door, but she went to the next house on the street, which was PS. If PS was thought of as the neighbourhood's weird perve that nobody got along with, my guess is that she may have left his door-knocking for the police to handle. jmo.

Perhaps she knew of his habit of ‘walking’ and was very keen to get to him, alert him & see what he may have seen ??

 

[Karinna]

the difficulty for us (IMO) is that we only know what’s been made public ( this week was a learning curve for me) .

I’m sure the reason for not collecting his brother has been explained; perhaps he had a call that changed initial plans; who knows. ..

Dementia is a debilitating, destructive & terribly sad disease ( just had my darling Aunt finally pass).
There’s a big difference between memory loss & dementia. .. I’m so so scared - every time I can’t find my keys or remember what I went down the hall for, I get scared !


PS is 75 years of age! and as I’m much younger. IMO he doesn’t have dementia, he has Old, couple with the attitude that helped people of that age survive.

Just my opinion.

I wonder why Owen etc not getting the same dissecting ?

There is also nothing that we know of medically wrong with PS as far as "mental illness" as was intimated toward PS's behaviour by GJ.
I think we also need to be mindful this is a public forum and family might also be reading here?
And to have a bit of compassion for HS as she is deceased, and died from cancer which is a horrid illness. IMO we need to leave her rest in peace.
As far as i'm aware she committed no crime and i highly doubt that she did. Secreting a dead child or helping to, really! Disgusting.
Maybe other players in this case need further closer scrutiny IMO.
Grieving the loss of a loved one can make a person very confused and feeling vulnerable and confused and in a mental fog too.

 

[Deleted member 161976]

HS wouldn't have been home when AMS came knocking, she was on her way to bingo (in Laurieton I think). She normally got back home early afternoon, perhaps 1:30 to 2 was mentioned, with no specific time for that day. PS and GN searched; I infer that HS remained home with GN's wife R. The hard-to-read map of who searched where lists H and R as being present when the Savage home was searched.

Yes the bingo at 1130 in Laurieton from Lia Harris podcast. No mention of her later that afternoon when locals searching either.
James Opdam, a local SES volunteer, told the inquest he saw Mr Savage among the people gathering to do a search with the SES and police that day.

When Counsel Assisting asked if he had seen his wife Heather, Mr Opdam said: 'No, she'd passed away'.

Mr Savage's wife Heather died of illness in April 2015, months after William vanished.

There was a long pause in court at Mr Opdam's apparent mistake, but he was not corrected by counsel.
William Tyrrell: Widower Paul Savage attracts questions at coronial inquest | Daily Mail Online

 

[Warshawski]

Did police even bother to check it out while they could? I don't believe we've even heard confirmation that HS made a statement before she succumbed to her illness? If they didn't even bother to get a statement from HS, I can't see them bothering to check out what time she arrived at bingo that day? Or check out her GPS etc. Which is very sad because it makes it awfully tough for people to defend themselves if police decide to accuse them years later. imo.

For me - these are the big questions.

We know it was originally thought of as a ‘missing child’ as opposed to ‘ an abduction’, so IMO so many vital clues, witness knowledge & investigation time went by the by.

Jubelin has said he was unhappy with the earlier investigation & I can see why. I can also understand why he went to great lengths to not let anything Go - unexplored & qualified.

imo, this is why it’s all such a shamozzle.

So So Sad & Disappointing for William & all who love him.