Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #50

[Blues Clues]

Then why no mention of HS whatsoever on helping with the search or being home when the neighbours knocked on the door.. in fact I can’t recall reading anything on her whereabouts other than she was going to bingo that morning.. where was heather no one knows

As HS was no longer well enough to accompany PS on his morning walks, she probably wasn't able to be involved in the searches in the search area.

According to this map of the co-ordinated search on the Friday afternoon, Heather Savage and Regina Newton searched the Savage property with SC Magennis and Police.

 

[Warshawski]

Cant

Cant recall reading anything about PS not being liked by his neighbours but I have read and seen on tv that he is a man of many sides.. one side that’s rather confident and controlling (totally believe he had control over hs), another side that he believed was charming and irresistible, another side that looked dark when angry, another side that was interested in knowing the in s and outs and goings on in the street.. and to that I’d like to add the strong possibility of mental illness clearly displayed in his stalking behaviour with a touch of delusional thinking.. so I think different people saw different sides depending on what side / sides he wanted them to see

It’s my opinion that we all present ‘sides’ depending on ..... (eg. take the pic now, it’s my better side)

IMO, we all have different personas, most of which have been developed as coping mechanisms.

If it’s reported / in the Media, then it’s gospel! I'm sure you know better than that; I’m sure you understand the piecing together of stuff to make a good story.

I want ‘facts’ & I’m enjoying the Court evidences as much more reliable, although still open to deciphering & decisions.

and at this point I want to make it clear that I do not know PS or any of his family members; nor do I know any of William’s family, nor anyone mentioned in the accusations. .

 

[Karinna]

It’s my opinion that we all present ‘sides’ depending on ..... (eg. take the pic now, it’s my better side)

IMO, we all have different personas, most of which have been developed as coping mechanisms.

If it’s reported / in the Media, then it’s gospel! I'm sure you know better than that; I’m sure you understand the piecing together of stuff to make a good story.

I want ‘facts’ & I’m enjoying the Court evidences as much more reliable, although still open to deciphering & decisions.

and at this point I want to make it clear that I do not know PS or any of his family members; nor do I know any of William’s family, nor anyone mentioned in the accusations. .

Me neither Warshawski, and i hate ignorant character assassinations in these Trial by Media hyped up stories that encourage to divide people to take sides.
We are only getting small pieces of stories in this case and even in the courts it is a very limited picture not in its totality.
And again this Trial is to determine if GJ is guilty of wrongdoing, and like with anyone else innocent unless otherwise proven at trial. All IMO.

 

[Green beans]

Me neither Warshawski, and i hate ignorant character assassinations in these Trial by Media hyped up stories that encourage to divide people to take sides.
We are only getting small pieces of stories in this case and even in the courts it is a very limited picture not in its totality.
And again this Trial is to determine if GJ is guilty of wrongdoing, and like with anyone else innocent unless otherwise proven at trial. All IMO.

for me, when it’s revealed that POI have complex psychological issues such as abusers and enablers of abusers, small bits of information say a lot. We have a little boy old missing. He was 3. Still a baby. Stalking is abuse. Sexual assault of children (or anyone) is abuse.
Does anyone also feel upset for AJ, or KL? Williams well-being, or god help us his darling remains need to be prioritised above any poi with a shady history such as these people. Personally, my side is that of williams, and his family. Any exposure making an abuser accountable is a-ok with me.

 

[sosocurious]

William Tyrrell investigation: The secret behind the Spiderman suit planted in the bush
https://7news.com.au/original-fyi/c...e-spiderman-suit-planted-in-the-bush-c-688370

 

[sosocurious]

It is a risky move and therefore not out of character: former NSW homicide detective Gary Jubelin has decided to testify in his own defence at his trial this week.............

In a related headache for the police force, Mr Jubelin’s legal team also intends to call the current head of the NSW homicide squad, Detective Superintendent Scott Cook, and former head of homicide, assistant commissioner Mick Willing, who only last month was chosen to oversee the NSW bushfire recovery effort.

Mr Jubelin worked for both men, and is likely to say that both always knew exactly where his focus lay....................................

Mr Jubelin occasionally displays a hyper-aggressive interrogation style; at other times he is as gentle as a kitten.
His decision to testify is pugnacious, perilous but also potentially genius............................................

Gary Jubelin takes stand to defend himself
NoCookies | The Australian

 

[stormbird]

No we haven't heard what time the postie would have been in Benaroon Drive, nor who the postie was, but from the Crabbs evidence , they got home about 09:30- 09:35 ( initially they said to police they got home at 10:30 but later changed to 09:30-09:35 after movements traced by police & times verified by receipts & loyalty cards from memory ) .

They said they got home , went to toilet & had a cup of tea on the back deck. They said they heard a vehicle about 10 mins later driving up benaroon drive & turning a round , thought sounded like it was the postie.

So that would put the time about 09:40-09:45?

I'm wondering if the postie has been questioned in closed court? ( the AVO stuff didn't come out till after the inquest had concluded ) & a statement from the postie was tendered at the end of the 1st tranche ( I assume that was a further statement IMO )



Neither of the Crabbs could remember seeing PS walk past their place to go on his morning walk that day, I'm not sure what time they left that morning??

drsleuth,
Did Mr and Mrs C do anything else (other than their cups of tea on the back deck) before AMS ran up to alert them about William? (I'm supposing it would have been about 10:55am when AMS reached their place if she went to PS's first?)

 

[deugirtni]

A little odd that her brother was coming over but she went to bingo and PS was heading to Casino to take care of his brother. I would have expected at least one to stay home at least until he arrived. Who knows how people run their lives but it seems odd to me for an older retired couple to not be waiting for visitors.

Just from memory, but didn't the brother come later, around mid-day perhaps? And I think it was just mentioned upthread what HS's usual schedule was for bingo days. The brother AFAIK said he was nearby because his son was playing rugby and they were going to stay at P&H's.. it's possible that they may not have known in advance what time they'd arrive, since they didn't know what time the game would end, or if they might play another game if they ended up winning the first game? (Just guessing.) Also *sounded* (to me) like it was just a visit of convenience, rather than a formal, 'hey come and stay for the weekend at our house and we'll do this, this, and this'. The relationship may have been such that they trusted the bro to let himself in if they didn't happen to be home at the time he arrived. It's kind of tough when we only get tiny pieces of entire stories and lives. imo.

 

[deugirtni]

Then why no mention of HS whatsoever on helping with the search or being home when the neighbours knocked on the door.. in fact I can’t recall reading anything on her whereabouts other than she was going to bingo that morning.. where was heather no one knows

We don't have the "entire day's details' of anyone in the street that day ….

With regard to Heather searching … she was an elderly lady, with cancer, who was too unwell to go on her daily walk , so not likely searching...… and any other scenario would just be speculation....

To add to that, the neighbours knocked on the door reportedly around 11am. HS had just left for bingo at 10:37am, so she wouldn't have been expected to have been home by then. And it's certainly understandable, as SLouTh mentioned above, with HS being sick with cancer and unable to participate in morning walks with her husband any longer, that she also wouldn't be out there searching when she did arrive home.. not to mention that she also had company (her brother and his wife) when she returned.

I had never heard until the post just today from drsleuth that HS had even made a statement before she died. I'm sure police checked out her statement and also verified times with the CCTV cams that were set up at the community centre. I truly hope that all of the neighbours gave statements and that they too were all checked out. I'm sure the police would have also done a thorough enough job to have checked all neighbouring/neighbourhood vehicles for signs of any damage. I recall reading in MSM at the time that police also reportedly checked into the boots of neighbourhood vehicles.

 

[deugirtni]

Strong man with hand over mouth would be enough; perhaps some chloroform on a rag ..imo

Yes, but then what?

 

[deugirtni]

As HS was no longer well enough to accompany PS on his morning walks, she probably wasn't able to be involved in the searches in the search area.

According to this map of the co-ordinated search on the Friday afternoon, Heather Savage and Regina Newton searched the Savage property with SC Magennis and Police.

View attachment 230842

Surely they would have noticed the tin/steel thing over the old pool/hole if it existed at the time?

 

[kiwi50]

To add to that, the neighbours knocked on the door reportedly around 11am. HS had just left for bingo at 10:37am, so she wouldn't have been expected to have been home by then. And it's certainly understandable, as SLouTh mentioned above, with HS being sick with cancer and unable to participate in morning walks with her husband any longer, that she also wouldn't be out there searching when she did arrive home.. not to mention that she also had company (her brother and his wife) when she returned.

I had never heard until the post just today from drsleuth that HS had even made a statement before she died. I'm sure police checked out her statement and also verified times with the CCTV cams that were set up at the community centre. I truly hope that all of the neighbours gave statements and that they too were all checked out. I'm sure the police would have also done a thorough enough job to have checked all neighbouring/neighbourhood vehicles for signs of any damage. I recall reading in MSM at the time that police also reportedly checked into the boots of neighbourhood vehicles.

I think every neighbour in the street should have the same scrutiny as PS, there is still one I find way more suspicious, hope he is still being considered.

 

[peekinandy]

I wonder how things will go for Jube's today?

It will be interesting to hear what these 2 coppers have to say, and then of course Cunneen's defence wrt the recordings... and all in-between

No doubt it will be an interesting day!

Can't see it wrapping up though...?

 

[peekinandy]

I think every neighbour in the street should have the same scrutiny as PS, there is still one I find way more suspicious, hope he is still being considered.

Which one Kiwi? The guy that kept to himself?

 

[Blues Clues]

Just from memory, but didn't the brother come later, around mid-day perhaps? And I think it was just mentioned upthread what HS's usual schedule was for bingo days. The brother AFAIK said he was nearby because his son was playing rugby and they were going to stay at P&H's.. it's possible that they may not have known in advance what time they'd arrive, since they didn't know what time the game would end, or if they might play another game if they ended up winning the first game? (Just guessing.) Also *sounded* (to me) like it was just a visit of convenience, rather than a formal, 'hey come and stay for the weekend at our house and we'll do this, this, and this'. The relationship may have been such that they trusted the bro to let himself in if they didn't happen to be home at the time he arrived. It's kind of tough when we only get tiny pieces of entire stories and lives. imo.

The Newtons were staying overnight to attend their son's grand final game the following day. They left the Savages house on Saturday morning.


Gregory Newton then took the stand, a tall man with a full head of white hair, who resembled country singer, Charlie Rich.

Mr Newton’s brother-in-law and late sister lived directly across from the house where William vanished.

Mr Craddock asked him about where his brother-in-law was standing on Benaroon Drive before the two men joined in a line search.

He told us that Mr Newton’s son played for the Coffs Harbour Snappers rugby union team, and that he was staying in Kendall with his sister to see the boy play.

After walking Mr Newton through a line search, a barking dog and, yes, the thickness of lantana, Mr Craddock quipped, “I think the Snappers lost?”
“They did,” Mr Newtown replied and chuckled, along with others in the court.

Inside the divided inquest into the three-year-old’s disappearance

Reserve grade rugby union grand final 1.30 Saturday 13th Sept 2014 at Oxley Oval Port Macquarie.

No fairytale finish for Paul Butcher with Coffs Snappers going down to Hastings Valley in reserve grade.

Final score was 19-15 after the Vikings led 14-0 after 10 minutes of play.

The Vikings and Port Pirates are now on the field for the first grade decider.

Updates: Mid North Coast Rugby grand final day at Oxley Oval

 

[kiwi50]

Which one Kiwi? The guy that kept to himself?

Yes...among other odd things like the covered window and state of house.

 

[k-mac]

the difficulty for us (IMO) is that we only know what’s been made public ( this week was a learning curve for me) .

I’m sure the reason for not collecting his brother has been explained; perhaps he had a call that changed initial plans; who knows. ..

Dementia is a debilitating, destructive & terribly sad disease ( just had my darling Aunt finally pass).
There’s a big difference between memory loss & dementia. .. I’m so so scared - every time I can’t find my keys or remember what I went down the hall for, I get scared !


PS is 75 years of age! and as I’m much younger. IMO he doesn’t have dementia, he has Old, couple with the attitude that helped people of that age survive.

Just my opinion.

I wonder why Owen etc not getting the same dissecting ?

bbm

imo owen injected himself into a narrative as did speddings neighbour.
little town big timers = big mouths.

huff and bluff so to speak. nothing to 'dissect' as you suggest.

owen wasn't at the seen of the disappearance.
live directly at the seen of the disappearance.
go missing for 2 hours of the disappearance.
have plans to leave the district at the time of the disappearance.
have proven history of stalking and inappropriate behaviour at the time of disappearance.

huge difference.

moo

 

[SouthAussie]

It is a risky move and therefore not out of character: former NSW homicide detective Gary Jubelin has decided to testify in his own defence at his trial this week.............

In a related headache for the police force, Mr Jubelin’s legal team also intends to call the current head of the NSW homicide squad, Detective Superintendent Scott Cook, and former head of homicide, assistant commissioner Mick Willing, who only last month was chosen to oversee the NSW bushfire recovery effort.

Mr Jubelin worked for both men, and is likely to say that both always knew exactly where his focus lay....................................

Mr Jubelin occasionally displays a hyper-aggressive interrogation style; at other times he is as gentle as a kitten.
His decision to testify is pugnacious, perilous but also potentially genius............................................

Gary Jubelin takes stand to defend himself
NoCookies | The Australian

This is the saddest thing ... (from your link). Potentially allowing so much time for the perpetrator to cover his tracks. And/or for nature to conceal/destroy forensics. And/or for William to be relocated and hidden more thoroughly.

.... the investigation, while high-profile, was also chronically under-resourced and “often thousands of pieces of information behind” with “thousands of investigative notes” and possible tips and sightings not followed up, as well as “days and days and weeks’ worth of surveillance device material” not listened to.


I wonder if they have listened to all of the surveillance device material by now? So many clues that perhaps are still sitting in William's file.

 

[Deleted member 161976]

Lia Harris on Twitter
Gary Jubelin’s criminal hearing has resumed, with Detective Inspector Darrin Bachelor on the stand. The Crown is continuing to play Jubelin’s video recorded interview with Professional Standards to the court.
@10NewsFirst

 

[Deleted member 161976]

Lia Harris on Twitter
Jubelin tells investigators there were “red flags” in regards to Paul Savage that “you just can’t ignore”. But says “you can only speculate on a crime that’s happened without any forensic evidence or any witnesses”.