Australia Australia - William Tyrrell, 3, Kendall, Nsw, 12 Sept 2014 - #62

[The gavel]

Really? I thought the motive most were pointing to was that she never bonded with him, didn't want to adopt him, but her husband really connected with him.

I hadn't heard anyone say she was so upset about his birthparents visits. Didn't they just visit once a month for an hour or so?

The FM tried to reduce the number of access visits. It's in the Book by C.O

 

[Sillybilly]

I just feel like we are so close to finding out what happened to William and it would be awful if the thread was closed down for good before we have had a chance to digest and debate the result, and we have had so many warnings and temporary thread closures while mods clean up posts.

I know we have a new POI in the FFC but I am not sure how it stands right because the forums are victim-friendly, and in my opinion I consider both foster parents victims until either one of them are charged and/or convicted of his death.

WS TOS (The Rules) are a basic guideline and can't possibly be black and white because not all cases are the same. There are times when the obvious circumstances of a case that is being presented in the media must be reconsidered and we have to make a thread specific exception. Thanks to social media and rumor mongering, gone are the days when LE would flat-out state that someone is a suspect or POI (that made our job much easier back in the day). Cases are fluid; when it becomes apparent to WS management that LE is treating someone as a POI/suspect without necessarily coming out directly and stating it, we review the matter and make adjustments in what approach members are allowed to take. If we didn't allow this leeway, WS would not remain relevant in the true crime community.

Based on how this case is playing out in MSM and the approach LE is seen to be taking, members are allowed to discuss, opine, speculate on the foster parents based on facts as they are presented in MSM, but are not allowed to sleuth them or trash them.

I hope that clarifies.

It's difficult to give a general explanation because so much can depend on the individual post and Mods and Admins are required to apply their discretion and judgement based on reviewing specific information that can change over time.

 

[JBowie]

It’s frustrating I agree, but it’s just an added layer of protection. The address is the most important thing to get right. You’d be surprised how many confusing and similar addresses there are out there, even in the boring suburbs. You can hear the dispatcher in FFC’s call .. she asks, asks again, but the caller doesn’t know so she moves on.

Yes, I guess when I think of how many Railway St/Pde/Rd there are, it pays to be sure.

Another thing that bugs me is the different address databases used by people/systems. One database supplier will consider a road as being in X suburb, whereas another will consider it as being in the adjacent Y suburb.

 

[katydid23]

Very different isn't it. Somebody broke into what is equivalent of a dwelling, and stole their child.

Someone neglecting to watch their child who accidentally fell or was snatched is neglectful. IMO

It's like comparing leaving your computer on the footpath and someone taking it, to someone breaking into your home and stealing it.

Completely different. IMO

You had said something like ' even if he had been abducted, she should be culpable'.

And I don't believe that allowing your child to run and play in Nana's yard, on a quiet suburban street, is criminal negligence.

So I am saying that if she was culpable, then wouldn't the parents of other kidnapped children be as well? A tent isn't a dwelling, so there could be a case made. I'm just saying it is unfair to point the blame at either of them.

 

[JayWill]

IMO Whether she might claim manslaughter or it was premeditated murder, IMO FCC was probably responsible.

I totally agree.

 

[Tigerlily75]

If she has done this she has managed to snow multiple police and emergency responders, her husband, family, the media etc .. is this likely? Or is it simply because once police were convinced everyone else was convinced too, simply believing that if police had cleared her that was good enough.

I feel like it’s this. I didn’t even question the abduction theory myself because I was so sure the police had unequivocally cleared them, and what else was left? He was taken. So all their friends, family, media etc likely felt the same. You can tell by the way the media presents the stories until a few weeks ago. Now it turns out police didn’t do even half of what they should have done to (try to) clear the parents. I feel relieved there’s a new team and new lead on it. Start at the family and work your way out. Old school detective work. Better late than never I guess.

 

[The gavel]

There's a lot of passion in this case. So many of have been watching it unfold for seven years.

You had said something like ' even if he had been abducted, she should be culpable'.

And I don't believe that allowing your child to run and play in Nana's yard, on a quiet suburban street, is criminal negligence.

So I am saying that if she was culpable, then wouldn't the parents of other kidnapped children be as well? A tent isn't a dwelling, so there could be a case made. I'm just saying it is fair to point the blame at either of them.

By the FMs own statements (which shouldn't be trusted in any event), she admits to her toddler child being out of her sight for 5 or so minutes. This is neglectful no matter which way it's spun.
There were no gates on the property. There were likely snakes on the property. There were houses close by with pools. There were logs, sticks, etc etc.

If the child was being supervised by somebody in this environment, not neglectful. IMO

Most children abducted by strangers are taken from public places and they are school aged and enroute to school. Very different because the parent wasn't able to supervise. IMO

 

[JBowie]

I thought FGM died in Dec 2020, but it is now reported as March 2021.

FM refers to FGMs death in one of the interviews. Now I'm forgetting which year, too, but IIRC she says 'early this year' so I guess the March date fits that.

 

[organised_chaos]

Tonight @ 9.30pm on Media Watch an interesting look at how police use the media to put pressure on suspects and the damage done to those wrongly accused.

https://twitter.com/ABCmediawatch/status/1462657058973515776

 

[SleepyJoe]

I am also 100% sure I read yesterday that they had found nothing after the luminol, but I can't find which article it was in now. I will go through my history and try find it again and link it here

I am in the health care industry and have treated many patients with accidental injuries, including those from falling from heights. My colleagues and I were discussing this today - the general consensus is that if WT died from a fall, there most likely (speculation only) would be no blood as the most likely cause of death would be severe head injury or fractured spine (especially upper C spine). IMO it would be less likely that he would have suffered from open wounds unless he fell on to a branch or stick that penetrated his skin. Although it is possible he suffered an open (therefore bleeding) fracture of skull or limb. So the intensive searching of the garden bed MAY have been a whole lot of effort with little chance of success JMO. Especially after all this time. MOO

 

[vatzjr]

*****SPECULATION*****

I know some read FFC's reference to the "special connection" WT had to MFC as "creepy" (coupled with the sleeping arrangements the night before the disappearance). I would prefer to not project or entertain any kind of paedophilic narrative unless there was some kind of evidence of it, especially in a case where paedophilic theories have run rampant and ruined lives. As well, it begins to stray from Occam's Razor (which is already a challenge).

My instinct was that by emphasising that "special connection" between WT and MFC (which, granted, may have been genuine) it was suggestive that he was less of a behavioural issues for MFC (as it has been mentioned here). Additionally, were the FFC solely responsible for misadventure (to whatever degree)--with or without MFC's knowledge of "the truth"--it could be an attempt to shift the bulk of discussing what kind of child WT was on MFC, thereby reducing the focus on FFC's interactions with WT and potential for revelations of defamatory details accidentally slipping out about their history, and place his vanishing in a different light.

/*****SPECULATION*****

 

[Rumination1]

I think summerwood pony club (ex) is at the corner of Cobb and co road

 

[SLouTh]

I am in the health care industry and have treated many patients with accidental injuries, including those from falling from heights. My colleagues and I were discussing this today - the general consensus is that if WT died from a fall, there most likely (speculation only) would be no blood as the most likely cause of death would be severe head injury or fractured spine (especially upper C spine). IMO it would be less likely that he would have suffered from open wounds unless he fell on to a branch or stick that penetrated his skin. Although it is possible he suffered an open (therefore bleeding) fracture of skull or limb. So the intensive searching of the garden bed MAY have been a whole lot of effort with little chance of success JMO. Especially after all this time. MOO

Agree totally -in my professional opinion, re severe head injury or broken C Spine being most likely to fit with an "Accidental Theory" and minimal or no blood....

IMO JMO MOO

 

[SleepyJoe]

I think the decision of CO's podcast to release an update episode that only contains the FD's statement/interview is quite telling. Particularly as she made a point to highlight the use/misuse of the word 'balcony' when explaining that William was playing on the back deck.

Overington would've been researching every nook and cranny of this case for her book and the podcast so must have a solid working theory at this point. Also her podcast painted a picture of the battler bio family hard done by against the privileged FP who were viewed as his only family by the media early on.

Whereas Harris paints 'Jane and Peter' as the sole grieving parents, in my opinion, because of how close she was to the case as a reporter from the first day onwards. Two very different takes.

A New Direction — Where's William Tyrrell? — Overcast

I agree. I think CO, even though she has detailed a lot of circumstantial evidence around FA, has been keeping an open mind. I don't get the impression that she has any bias any way JMO. And I did note how she emphasised LT's police interview in her new podcast episode re balcony/ deck. My thoughts were: if LT had been coached to say they were on the deck but slipped up and said "balcony", then, according to the statement, she very quickly realised her "error" and took the policewoman to the deck. And, if this was the case, that is heartbreaking that a 4yo would be made to have to remember a lie. I am not saying this is what happened, only that is a possible, albeit horrible, scenario.

 

[StrangerDanger]

Also, we haven't had the ability to even view her facial expressions, so it's easier to manipulate behind a sheath of protection. She's been completely shielded from any scrutiny whether it be though the FACS guidelines or police or having anything about her removed off the internet.

Yes, FFC’s relative anonymity has shielded her from scrutiny of her 1. facial expressions and of 2. her personal information by the general public. The police have no doubt heavily scrutinised her and continued to do so. Even though her identity has been shielded, there’s still been plenty of scrutiny on her from the public based on her role as a foster carer, her tone of voice in interviews, her parenting/supervision etc etc. she hasn’t existed in some bubble of unscrutinised innocence.

jmo.

 

[JayWill]

Yes, FFC’s relative anonymity has shielded her from scrutiny of her 1. facial expressions and of 2. her personal information by the general public. The police have no doubt heavily scrutinised her and continued to do so. Even though her identity has been shielded, there’s still been plenty of scrutiny on her from the public based on her role as a foster carer, her tone of voice in interviews, her parenting/supervision etc etc. she hasn’t existed in some bubble of unscrutinised innocence.

jmo.

That has been relatively recent though.

 

[SleepyJoe]

That might mean a witness has seen some car used by FM to bring WTs body back. But back from where? This is getting utterly bizarre!!!! I can't believe something this elaborate happened. If something this elaborate did happen, them FD has to be involved. Sheesh!!!

I (and others I have spoken to) agree with you! The whole situation is UTTERLY BIZARRE!!! In fact, I am completely blindsided by all of this. It really seems like a bad movie plot in which the perp could act like they are grieving for 7 years (!!!) and campaign for finding of the victim, but yet be the one responsible all along! It doesn't seem possible, but that doesn’t mean it didn't happen.....

 

[katydid23]

The FM tried to reduce the number of access visits. It's in the Book by C.O

Ok, but is that something to kill a child over? It its hard to accept that it was that upsetting for her that she murdered a child because of it.

 

[BreakingNews]

The FM tried to reduce the number of access visits. It's in the Book by C.O

And that is not the FM's role. Ultimately kids need parental contact. Up to FACS. Which is why I do not believe there was any chance of adoption. Just a long term foster arrangement. MOO

 

[The gavel]

Ok, but is that something to kill a child over? It its hard to accept that it was that upsetting for her that she murdered a child because of it.

Guess we will find out hopefully spoon.